don’t feed the troll Irish, you know better than that. Also, have a look at the Meltdown training programs on this site. I’ve had good luck using them for conditioning programs for wrestling/ BJJ
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
that hurt[/quote]
fixed.
ugh you all are so dumb
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]partybison wrote:
the 2x a week 5/3/1 split looks really good. but I think it’s comparable to WS4SB if you cut out the jump training and the upper body repetition day (like I have done the last two weeks). But it’s good to see that Wendler recommends 3 conditioning work outs per week on top of the strength stuff.
from the article: 5/3/1 Reloaded
“But at NO time, ever, should you dump one of those three things (strength, hypertrophy, conditioning) completely. That’s when you can potentially run into problems.”
that is what I did, in hindsight pretty stupid.
to Sardine12
could you please elaborate that? and what would be your recommendation?
I don’t want to go into the opposite extreme and sacrifice strength for endurance but at the moment the latter is definitely a priority[/quote]
Sure I’ll explain, boxing is an aerobic alactic sport. Because of the overall length of the fight and the constant movement the main energy system being utilized is the aerobic system. If your cardio is poor as you put it, you need to focus on getting that better by doing long bouts of exercise running, bike swimming (think endurance). Sprints which tend to be lactic or alactic and are not going to do shit for your endurance in this case. Now sprints can be helpful, but if your endurance is poor you need to focus on that first. The best thing to do would be to go to Lyle Mcdonald’s site where he has a bunch of articles on endurance training they are quite lengthy reads, but have a huge amount of good usable information. Most boxers do road work and while you don’t necessarily have to go out and run you should understand why they do this. All this tabata, circuit, lactic acid is bull shit. I mean even the big olympic wrestlers ran, Karelin, the Russian team all ran/run at least twice a week or more, some do daily. And running a bit isn’t going to kill strength levels, I mean if you are running marathons and not eating, yeah you will probably get weaker. But it is important to remember that a minimalist approach to strength training is best. A ton of top fighters lift two maybe three days max. Also you should have very basic strength goals. A bodyweight bench etc… There is no need to overdo your strength training. Lastly many athletes who have adequate strength levels get away with maintaining strength once every ten days, it’s individual really but less is more. Even in sprinting if you read speed trap Charlie Francis eventually went super minimalist with Ben Johnson doing 4 exercises once or twice a week.[/quote]
Actually, boxing is primarily an anaerobic sport.
[quote]Beast Status wrote:
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
Jump rope for rounds, cut out distance running and switch to sprints, and change to the compressed version of 5/3/1 5/3/1 Reloaded .
[/quote]
If his endurance is poor why in the world would he do sprints. Is logic lost in the strength and conditioning world? See my post was intended as a joke because some of you actually believe this shit.[/quote]
I don’t know, same reason USA boxing and professional fighters use sprints probably. Unless somehow numerous sprints wont increase your endurance. You can actually exclusively sprint if it tickles your fancy, other than warming up and warming down of course.
[/quote]
Sprinting is for football players. Long hard bouts of cardio is for fighters. Dont always believe what u read in Sports Illustrated.
[/quote]
The fighters I primarily deal with are amateurs, their bouts last four 2:00 minute rounds. Before I started working with them they’d typically jog 2-3 miles as requested by their trainer. Excluding warm up I’ll have them do something like four 400m sprints with a minute between each, three 200m sprints with 30 seconds rest between sprints, and one 100m sprint. I’ve noticed improvements in their stamina and an improved focus since the shorter distance combined with a rest period tends to make them feel like they’re doing less work.
I’ve been involved in boxing for nearly 12 years and messing with S&C programs for five years, this isn’t stuff I’ve read in Sports Illustrated. Boxing is just an inner city sport who’s S&C is slowly coming out of the dark ages. Fighters just jog 5 miles because Jack Dempsey did it, then Joe Louis, and so on. To this day most fighters will probably rely entirely on jogging long distances at a slow pace for their cardio for no other reason than another fighter did it.
[/quote]
Sprints have their place. We drill pad work for 1.5 hours straight, jog 3-5 miles and use sprints. More for the effect of getting the heart rate up and back down. To simulate rests between rounds. Sprints dont seem to keep the gas in the tank as long as extended periods with a high heart rate. It does however accustom your heart to go from an elevated rate and then while resting back down to a lower BPM much faster. Thus giving your body better recoop in between rounds.
Also…OP is asking about kickboxing, not boxing. Not a big deal, but I didnt know if you caught that.
Are you involved with the golden gloves program? We have a great program up here in my area of vermont.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
ugh you all are so dumb[/quote]
I know you are but what am I?
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
ugh you all are so dumb[/quote]
Only about things we know nothing about. hint…hint
wow guys calm down. I didn’t mean to start some kind of endurance-war. I think both points are valid. If you look at really technical fighters like the Klitschkos, boxing looks like an aerobic activity. But for myself I can say that sparring feels most comparable to a 2 kilometer row if I try to finish under 7:30 minutes (I#m a lousy rower by the way). What kind of energy system would be used in that domain?
Big_Boss if the question about Vermont was for me: Nope I’m from old europe 
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
ugh you all are so dumb[/quote]
Only about things we know nothing about. hint…hint[/quote]
No you’re wrong, but I’m done arguing science and facts are dumb, you are all right. Man to think all the countless thousands of fighters doing their morning roadwork had it all wrong. Someone should go to to Thailand and tell them they have it wrong too.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
ugh you all are so dumb[/quote]
Only about things we know nothing about. hint…hint[/quote]
No you’re wrong, but I’m done arguing science and facts are dumb, you are all right. Man to think all the countless thousands of fighters doing their morning roadwork had it all wrong. Someone should go to to Thailand and tell them they have it wrong too.[/quote]
Not to get in a big debate…as it will be pointless. But I can’t help but notice this:
You mention Thai boxers doing roadwork for a case for aerobic energy system…yet fail to mention what part of Muay Thai training(or any striking discipline) is ANAEROBIC.
Aerobic work builds your base to handle the anaerobic work. So…the only people wrong in this are those saying to not do one or the other…and those saying only the aerobic energy system is at play…ie…YOU.
Hell…I think the best advice in this thread was the simplest. Run…Spar…Pads. All bases covered…trust me.
[quote]partybison wrote:
Big_Boss if the question about Vermont was for me: Nope I’m from old europe ;)[/quote]
I dont think BB asked anything about VT. I had asked Golden Glove which GG ammy boxing he was working with.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Hell…I think the best advice in this thread was the simplest. Run…Spar…Pads. All bases covered…trust me.
[/quote]
Indeed. Some jerkoff kid always has to complicate this shit way more than it has to be. It’s the same reason why there’s five different threads of people asking Jim Wendler if doing 5/3/1 their way is going to work.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Hell…I think the best advice in this thread was the simplest. Run…Spar…Pads. All bases covered…trust me.
[/quote]
Indeed. Some jerkoff kid always has to complicate this shit way more than it has to be. It’s the same reason why there’s five different threads of people asking Jim Wendler if doing 5/3/1 their way is going to work.
[/quote]
Uh I said run you fuck.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Hell…I think the best advice in this thread was the simplest. Run…Spar…Pads. All bases covered…trust me.
[/quote]
Indeed. Some jerkoff kid always has to complicate this shit way more than it has to be. It’s the same reason why there’s five different threads of people asking Jim Wendler if doing 5/3/1 their way is going to work.
[/quote]
Uh I said run you fuck. [/quote]
Why are you still here?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Hell…I think the best advice in this thread was the simplest. Run…Spar…Pads. All bases covered…trust me.
[/quote]
Indeed. Some jerkoff kid always has to complicate this shit way more than it has to be. It’s the same reason why there’s five different threads of people asking Jim Wendler if doing 5/3/1 their way is going to work.
[/quote]
Uh I said run you fuck. [/quote]
Why are you still here?[/quote]
I’ll always be here you annoying prick.
why do I always think sardines and drewh are the same guy-
its like two half assed trolls.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
ugh you all are so dumb[/quote]
Only about things we know nothing about. hint…hint[/quote]
No you’re wrong, but I’m done arguing science and facts are dumb, you are all right. Man to think all the countless thousands of fighters doing their morning roadwork had it all wrong. Someone should go to to Thailand and tell them they have it wrong too.[/quote]
I don’t know, does weight training and gaining muscle mass really just make you bulky and slow? That’s the sentiment in boxing not long ago, some fighters still feel that way.
[quote]Beast Status wrote:
Sprints have their place. We drill pad work for 1.5 hours straight, jog 3-5 miles and use sprints. More for the effect of getting the heart rate up and back down. To simulate rests between rounds. Sprints dont seem to keep the gas in the tank as long as extended periods with a high heart rate. It does however accustom your heart to go from an elevated rate and then while resting back down to a lower BPM much faster. Thus giving your body better recoop in between rounds.
Also…OP is asking about kickboxing, not boxing. Not a big deal, but I didnt know if you caught that.
Are you involved with the golden gloves program? We have a great program up here in my area of vermont.[/quote]
Boxing is just my background and what I’m involved with.
I’m not involved with the GG program in that sense, I don’t have the time for it now. Once I’m finished with grad school I’d like to get certified by USA boxing and become a trainer at a nonprofit gym, currently I work with nonprofit gyms to improve their S&C “programs”. I’d also like to get involved with the amateur programs by reffing or being a judge too.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
why do I always think sardines and drewh are the same guy-
its like two half assed trolls.[/quote]
For giving sound advice. You sir are the troll.
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
ugh you all are so dumb[/quote]
Only about things we know nothing about. hint…hint[/quote]
No you’re wrong, but I’m done arguing science and facts are dumb, you are all right. Man to think all the countless thousands of fighters doing their morning roadwork had it all wrong. Someone should go to to Thailand and tell them they have it wrong too.[/quote]
I don’t know, does weight training and gaining muscle mass really just make you bulky and slow? That’s the sentiment in boxing not long ago, some fighters still feel that way.
[quote]Beast Status wrote:
Sprints have their place. We drill pad work for 1.5 hours straight, jog 3-5 miles and use sprints. More for the effect of getting the heart rate up and back down. To simulate rests between rounds. Sprints dont seem to keep the gas in the tank as long as extended periods with a high heart rate. It does however accustom your heart to go from an elevated rate and then while resting back down to a lower BPM much faster. Thus giving your body better recoop in between rounds.
Also…OP is asking about kickboxing, not boxing. Not a big deal, but I didnt know if you caught that.
Are you involved with the golden gloves program? We have a great program up here in my area of vermont.[/quote]
Boxing is just my background and what I’m involved with.
I’m not involved with the GG program in that sense, I don’t have the time for it now. Once I’m finished with grad school I’d like to get certified by USA boxing and become a trainer at a nonprofit gym, currently I work with nonprofit gyms to improve their S&C “programs”. I’d also like to get involved with the amateur programs by reffing or being a judge too.
[/quote]
No I would never say lifting is bad it depends on the boxer really. Does he need to get stronger? But there are some consequences of hypertrophy (the ratio of oxidative to glycolytic muscle tissue). I tell him to do aerobic work for endurance and that anerobic isn’t really what he needs right now and suddenly I’m a troll? Whatever
[quote]partybison wrote:
wow guys calm down. I didn’t mean to start some kind of endurance-war. I think both points are valid. If you look at really technical fighters like the Klitschkos, boxing looks like an aerobic activity. But for myself I can say that sparring feels most comparable to a 2 kilometer row if I try to finish under 7:30 minutes (I#m a lousy rower by the way). What kind of energy system would be used in that domain?[/quote]
It appears that rowing is similar in that it uses aerobic and anaerobic systems.
But boxing, or kickboxing, to me, has always seemed unlike anything else. I never got that gassed playing HS football, basketball, or any other sport. Replicating the taxing it puts on your body is damn near impossible.
Hence why I said you’re better off doing shitloads of padwork, bagwork, and running of all sorts, from hill sprints up.