Thanks man!
can’t wait to get back down to lower(ish) carbs. Maybe around 230~260g. Don’t think 300+ grams per day is sustainable.
@TrainForPain btw, do you know anyone on this forum that is good at looking at a program at seeing if it’s too much volume / not enough rest?
I watched a video by some guy called Mike israteal yesterday and he talked about Periodization. I’ve never periodized a damn thing so there might be something I could improve.
Well, we all love debating it… but I think a lot it comes down to preference and individual results. How’s it working for you? Are you having more good days than bad?
I just started watching some of his stuff! I like his content and his delivery. @Andrewgen_Receptors turned me onto him.
I’d imagine you periodize more than you think. Ever run different programs, for instance?
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currently training 5 days / week. Works fine but there’s a noticeable drop in “feeling good/motivated” after day 3. I still push through but if day 1 is at 100% freshness… By day 4 I’m at 75%
Not really. I have added a few excercises / changed volume here and there. But for the most part I’ve been doing the same program for 3+ years… It can be boring bit its produced great results. if I’m ever feeling stale I just workout at a different gym and that helps a bit.
Last year I started doing deloads every 5th week. That’s about it.
I also watched a few youtube videos from people that compete in men’s physique and seems like I’m doing more volume than them… (which is what promoted me to ask on here)…
I’ve met a few competitive body builders and can easily conclude that even though they do less volume… They seem to have terrible cardio for their size. (always breathing heavy etc) id rather keep the great cardio I have than become a mass monster… So that’s why I’ve kept volume high/ low rest… But it sometimes catches up to me after mid week…so now I’m looking for a solution
Most programs seem to recommend that if training 6x per week, your daily volume should be low and the opposite if training like 3x per week. Effectively such that total sets per week is about the same.
If you’re doing intensification techniques, or HIT stuff (like rest-pause or similar), this is going to wear out your CNS to a significant degree.
A comment by @Christian_Thibaudeau that may apply to your interest in cardio:
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I think there’s a big indicator there! Personally I’d try to get in front of that, and not do that third day - lift two days, max, in a row.
I hear you on the high volume, wanting to stay conditioned, etc. The volume does come at a cost, though, and we don’t want you feeling like crap all the time.
If you’re really dying to get in there, CT has a series on here (and I think YouTube) about “neural charge” workouts. They actually might work great for you. The idea is to use a low volume of a handful of explode moves (jumps, throws, etc). You’d do this in between lifting days. It satisfies a bit of an urge to get in there, and helps to recover your nervous system a bit. The trick is to stop as soon as you feel good, which is normally when you want to really dive into your workout.
I think the deload strategy is a great idea. It’s possible, if you reduce your volume a bit, you don’t have to deload quite as often. That trade-off may help mentally, you know?
Something else I’ve really been exploring lately is the idea of specialization. For example, say you’re advanced enough your chest needs 24 sets a week to really grow (it may not need that much, but let’s use that idea to illustrate). You can’t do that for everything, or you’d just be wrecked with cortisol and nothing will grow. Nor, realistically, will all those chest sets be great sets if you do them in just one or two sessions. What you can do is do 3 chest workouts of 8 sets each in your week. Every other bodypart goes on maintenance, where research shows we can do 1/3 of our normal volume (so that might be like 4-5 sets) and maintain. Do that for 4 weeks, then pick your next noncompeting bodypart (like quads would probably be a better immediate next choice than shoulders). I have noticed some benefit in the past with this approach; maybe worth a shot to get the volume you want without crushing yourself.
what is your advice for older Type 3 { training addict} to lowering chronic cortisol elevation ?
I would certainly start by asking the person who both wrote the neurotype questionnaire, and the subsequent training methods.
I’m a 3 with secondary 1A, and i have yet to find a training style i enjoy that doesn’t elevate my cortisol. Hopefully you have better luck than i in that department.
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It’s literally impossible to do any type of intense exercise without elevating cortisol simply due to its function, which is to mobilize and supply enery to your muscles, brain and other bodily tissues.
Cortisol has gotten a bad rep amongst lifters. So bad that they tend to forget that without cortisol, your overall performance would plummet pretty fast because cortisol is not only important for energy production and mobilization. It also upregulates adrenaline production and release, which is critical for coordination, contraction quality, focus and reaction speed during training.
Lowering cortisol post-workout and in the evening can be truly challenging but it is most certainly possible. I personally found nutritional strategies, mindfulness and breathing protocols to be the most effective alongside a cool environment (especially in the bedroom because chronic cortisol elevation heats up the body, which is bad if you want to enter and bank enough time in deep sleep which is important for recovery).
When it comes to training, CT has mentioned to me before that even though type 3’s are usually not very resistant to neurologically dominant workouts (training heavy almost exclusively and using intensification methods like waves, clusters, heavy rest-pauses), the single most important variable is having that sense of control. Some 3’s actually prefer doing heavy, low volume work over less intense, moderate to high volume work (more bodybuilding style approach). Training frequency usually stays somewhat the same I’d say, something like 3-4x/week is best for most.
I also believe that your secondary dominance is an important clue for the training approach that might suit you best. When your secondary dominance is 1A, the low volume, moderate frequency, high intensity approach might be the best for you. Full body Jim Wendler, Mike Mentzer protocols will work great.
When your secondary dominance is 2B (this is my secondary dominance) a bodybuilding approach with moderate volume (somewhere between 15-20 sets per workout is the sweet spot) using a modified push pull, lift specific or upper lower split might work better. I like intensity but I also like to FEEL my muscles working and getting a great pump. I think vanity, empathy, high self awareness and excellent proprioception are all good indicators for a person that matches the type 2B profile.
Being a type 3 myself, I would argue that consistency and structure based on personal preference, is the single most important thing to controlling excess cortisol. This means consistency and structure for the big 4 (nutrition, sleep, stress management and training), not solely training. For training specifically my recommendation would be to simply pick the style of training that suits you the best. Everything works for a type 3 as long as you have that element of consistency and structure, which for a type 3 is crucial for feeling in control.
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I find this statement incredibly accurate.
I did quite well with the high volume approach for nearly a decade, but stopped seeing progress. When I decided to give proper HIT (DC/Fortitude/Darden Surge Challenge) a go, I noticed new gains - which were surprising to say the least.
I always struggle with programming ADD, where I want to change up my program ever couple months. I don’t see this as a particular problem because it tends to maximize neurological adaptation via training nuance, but I never have the consistency to do this on a larger scale (say a yearlong plan).
That’s actually what you want to do. Usually a well rounded program lasts anywhere from 10 up to 16 weeks, with 12 weeks being the most common.
Each program is divided into several training phases that target a specific strength quality (based on different intensities and rep ranges to allow for the management of fatigue and optimization of training performance, which is basically the whole concept of periodization). The average intensity of all these strength qualities is usually what determines the end goal you’re training for.
Perhaps you might benefit from investing in yourself and expanding your knowledge on program design and periodization, both in the short and long term (like yearly periodization).
If you’re serious about training and you’ve come to a point where you feel the urge to design and periodize your own programs based on your personal preferences and experience with training, then I would highly recommend you seek out further education.
The Kilo Strength Society program design and periodization courses are perfect for this (I’m not an affiliate, I took their courses and it was truly an awesome and inredibily helpful experience). Stéphane Cazeault, who is also a type 3, a colleague/friend of CT, who also studied under Poliquin and was head coach at his institute for a long time before he went on and started his own business, has more than 25 years of experience training gen pop and high level athletes.
What is really awesome about his courses is how beautifully structured, sequenced and comprehensive they are. Each chapter builds further on the previous one. Even the courses build on top of each other (program design comes first, periodization second and strength ratios third, the latter is more the finetuning of your program design & periodization to fix strength imbalances in your big lifts). You can now buy the whole bundle for a little under 900 dollars, which is an absolute steal because after you’ve done the courses, you will have all the tools you need to effectively program and periodize programs in the short and long term.
Now, where the real magic comes in is when you combine his courses with the courses from Thibarmy.
If you would like to understand the relationship between training for hypertrophy (hypertrophy cornerstone), training psychology (neurotyping), training for performance (OCTS) and your own physiology better alongside taking an in-depth look into how to program and periodize training according to your preferences, hormonal differences, goals and training age, than I can also highly recommend Coach Thib’s course material. They truly are so beneficial if you want to improve your knowledge and experience in the Iron game.
Stéphane is more of a numbers guy whereas CT is more of a methods guy. Stéphane is very structured and detail oriented in the way he designs and periodizes programs, CT uses a more diverse approach and gives you waaay more useful info on how to adapt your training regimen to your own personal physiology and psychology, which is actually the real moneymaker when it comes to making gains. He also adds in charisma, a lot of laughs and personal examples of the concepts he discusses in his courses, which makes them more enjoyable in general.
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Might be something to consider.. I do allot of drop sets (and enjoy it).. but it’s probably detrimental
I’ll give that a go. I typically don’t like training on weekends so that I can go out and do other stuff while feeling fresh but I will love things around and see what happens
Right now I’m bulking for the first time & id say.. 90% of the time I’m in maintenance mode & not trying to get bigger / leaner. But that approach sounds interesting.. basically lowering one body part volume.. to make room for the other
Do you mind posting a sample summary of a typical workout you do? Say.. for legs. I’d like to compare and see what I’m doing wrong / too much volume.
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All my training is documented in my training log linked below
But I’ve done random stuff for legs forever. I always prioritized squats, no matter how counterintuitive that may be, and have squatted 405x5 for a PR (squats and I are disgreeing right now so don’t ask for proof lol). After squats, I would do quad extensions and ham curls… not too much else.
I feel like I neglect my legs, but they are still huge anyways, so I suspect my genetics are to just have horse legs… a strong argument to support this is my calves (I don’t directly train calves and almost never do).
A few really big guys I’ve conversed with are training the Jordan Peters system and I’m almost 3 weeks into the first phase of it… something like this might be a significant change to your training and give you a great opportunity for novel training stimuli.
Would also recommend something like DoggCrapp training if you’re a volume junkie. Helps break some of those habits and learn new/different pathways to growth.
To be honest, the thought of you asking me for guidance here seems silly - you’re huge and I’m trying to look more like you lol. At any rate, I’m a little flattered, but I’m not sure that my method for training legs would work for you as I think my genetics are stored in my legs. Of course, you’re welcome to follow my log and see what I’m doing at any time.
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Haha! I felt the same. This is a jacked dude we’re talking to.
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That’s amazing that you’ve kept such a detailed log. Dedication.
I’ve never kept a log but one thing I noticed is that you calculate “tonage”.. which tells me it might not just be a about sets vs reps.. but the total weight of everything combined might mean more. Hmm….
Yea it’s looking like I do way too many intensification methods. Over the years it’s probably helped with “capilarization” (learned this on a @Christian_Thibaudeau video).. whereby I basically now have lots of veins everywhere. But that needs to be cut back a bit
Thanx fellas. I just think there’s always room for improvement. my goal is to dedicate as little time to fitness so that I can free up energy to do other things. So the less effects of the training I feel, the more I can live normally.. if that makes sense.
Also, speaking about jacked.. I’ve been bulking for 2+ months and I’ll admit, I am FAILING. I back down to 191~192lbs (was 194 at the new year).. seems like my body has caught up to the trickery and extra calories. So I might just call it quits because eating 3200 calories a day is no longer fun. Feels like I’m a cow on a field being force fed to look big for the slaughter house auction…so next week I’ll start a mini cut for spring / summer time. Targeting 187ish.
I think this is it. My body feels fine, but my brain feels fried / lazy. Outside of caffeine & carbs/sugar.. what can improve brain performance. Eventually how can someone make their brain hypertrophy / withstand volume. I know it’s a silly way to ask but imagine finishing a 7am workout. Your body is ok.. but your brain just seems to be lagging behind. Then you have to go to work. You push through but by 2pm your brain quits.. but your body is still fine.
I know this because last week I did a 7am intense workout and played soccer at 5pm. That tells me that my body was ok. But inbetween 1pm and 4pm my brain refused to be on the same page. This is the shitty feeling ive been trying to describe. I’ve tried modafinilllll ntwice in the past and it worked but idk if that’s a good long term solution.
TLDR: high volume workouts sapping mental energy more than physical energy. How do I train my brain to recover as fast as my body
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Well, I don’t know if this would help you feel the effects any less, but High Intensity Training (HIT) is based around maximizing results from minimal work… you may find some relief here. Of these methods, I’ve used DoggCrapp, Fortitude, and am currently running Jordan Peter’s Full Body>PPL progression - all of which use a HIT approach.
I used to do a ton of volume and did pretty well, but when I switched to HIT, I saw a big improvement in gains.
This took a little over a year and some dieting, but this all happened with HIT training. It’s not the only answer, but it’s really worth looking into for the reasons you’ve described in this thread.
Wish I knew the answer here - honestly I don’t. I do know that certain peptides are very beneficial for ‘recovery’, but I cannot speak to how well they help the brain ‘recover’. BPC-157 may be worth looking into (I’m assuming by your physique that you’re in the sphere of ‘enhanced’).
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Thnx for the recommendations! I will look them up and see what I resonate with.
I don’t know much about peptides but the modafinilll was from when I had exams to study for & got them from a classmate who had some left over.
No sir. & probably never will due to lack of knowledge (seems to be some serious implications from what I’ve heard… like losing hair.. balllsss shrinking… man boooobs….can’t have kids.. etc. no thnx).. & also fear of needles. I’ve taken my blood work twice in my life and always looked away when the nurse started tapping on the syringe. that being said, I’ve heard about the trt trend and always see various companies setting up tables outside my gym to promote.
If my T drops later in life.. & this forum still exists I will definitely ask a million questions before I try anything that serious.
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since were talking about supplements.. I honestly think most are a waste of $$. here’s what I used to take 2020 vs now (and I have not noticed any major difference)
Pre 2020:
before workout :
Citrullie powder + Argentine + 3g l tyrosine
Post workout: bcaa by xtend + plazma by biotest + iso hydro whey
2022;
Before workout : cirulline + 2g l tyrosine
Post workout: glycine + magnesium
I used to swear by protein shakes and bcaas. Haven’t touched one in a year .. & there has been no difference. Probably meaningless to lots of people but imagine a broke (ish) college kids spending $$ on supplements thinking they’re life changing. I could have saved that money and travelled or something.
Same thing for creatine. It feels like it works but anecdotally I think it’s bcz it just stuffs your muscles with extra water. Without creatine, life goes on and gains can still be made
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Agree, but both Magnesium and Creatine are ones that are incredibly beneficial to have. Required? No, just beneficial. BPC-157 falls outside the realm of ‘supplements’ though. I do use Surge as well - I just find my workouts to be better when I have it.
Protein shakes aren’t a requirement either, just a useful tool for convenient protein needs. Would always be better replaced with a protein rich meal, but sometimes that just doesn’t pan out. Nice to have a protein shake when that happens.
Were I betting on Natty or Not, I would have lost money for sure - I’m genuinely surprised you’re natural. Would consider competing, were I in your shoes.
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never been into competing & never been to a live event. I’ve seen instagram pics.. but what would I gain from it? I wonder if it pays well for the average competitor.
I tried surge once. Mixed it with some bcaas & flavored citrulline for the taste. (Literally the only reason I take bcaas.. they taste so damn good haha)
A lot of ppl would apparently. & I get the whole “what do you take” question sometimes in the gym but in my opinion I’m not thaaaat big (185~192lbs). if I were to boil it down to one thing.. I’d say most ppl don’t train with intensity. lots of ppl are in the gym to look cool, have “perfect form”, do “minimal effective volume” & feel like they did something.
these days I see a lot of “optimize sleep and recovery”.. “minimize cortisol”.. “leave 3-4 reps in the tank bro”… “eccentric vs concentric loading”… “pick a weight & exercise you can feel…bro”…”save your grip strength”….”brooo we need to spike insulin..bro”….”bro, tag me in that pic”…
when I first started working out with my cuzin, all we did the first year or two was listen to gangster rap on full blast on the way to the gym (the original pre-workout). Then train like starving savages & order Chinese food after the gym. no instagram, no selfies, no wrist wraps, no moisture whicking - 3 way stretch supima cotton workout gear…
we had this one workout we made called “dead-lift or die tryin”. 315lbs touch n go reps until the bar drops or you keep going and deal with the calluses later.
at the Chinese restaurant the lady at the register often asked us if we were ok bcz our eyes were usually a bit blood shot right after every session.
prob not the best way to train & we made lots of dumb mistakes along the way (like how this entire thread started with me finally realizing that low carb, high volume & not enough rest days isn’t always good)…BUT those savage sessions imo is what built a solid foundation.
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