[quote]Tallguyy76 wrote:
John S. wrote:
n3wb wrote:
John S. wrote:
Sxio wrote:
Many laughs at the ‘who would you rather be punched by?’ comment. I do not want to be punched by the guy who trains to punch things. If all you do is lift weights then you don’t know shit about fighting.
WHAT??? are you saying someone who benched a lot would not hit like a truck?
All things created equal the heavy bencher would hit harder. I would rather get hit by the strong bencher that dosent train to punch harder.
The heavy bencher would hit alot harder then someone who just trains punches, the person who trains punches learns to manipulate there power the the highest degree, but I have never seen someone who can bench a lot that does not know how to manipuluate there body to hit there hardest.(maybe I just see some oddity’s)
At whay level are you talking about? Wladamir Klitscko probably doesn’t have any idea what he bench presses but I can almost gurantee you that his right hand is much harder then Gene Rylchak’s. Who cares? Gene’s thing is to bench masive amounts of weight. Klitscko’s is to knock peple out. I doubt either loses sleep at night worrying about the other or how they train.
Punching power is one of those elusive things. If the answer was to just give some one a bigger bench then there would not be boxers walking around without punching power. Strong core and legs would have more impact then a strong bench on punching power as that is where your power is generated. If you had said that a person with a big bench hits harder then the average person I would give you that but to say they hit harder then a pro with punching power is crazy. Punching power is something that can be trained to an extent but for the most part it’s technique and just something your born with. The rate of force development for a punch and a bench is totally diffrent. Put your fist against a wall and push as if you are trying to push threw it (benchpress). How much damage are you going to do to it? Now what if you punched the wall. The speed factor makes a huge diffrence.
Why do people really care how anyone else trains? I think there are insecure people on both sides. There are crossfit/functional/MMA wannabes who think they can knockout, chokeout or outperform anybody on the face of the earth and then there are the lifters that don’t understand that just because they are strong that does not make them an instant badass. Think most of us fall in the middle and dont begrudge anyone their goals or how they train.
Before ever even toughing a weight I hit 250 pounds and this was in the army running 4 days a week. I am up to about 290 now but plan on working my way back down to 250 because the extra weight doesn’t fit my personal goals as a recreational athlete. Other’s goals are to get bigger and stronger. Are we going to train the same? No. Am I going to put them down because of their goals? No.
[/quote]
Scott Mendelson has the worlds heaviest raw bench you would find that all though they he could probably take your head off Scott Mendelson dosent have the worlds strongest punch.
The person who does probably benches any where from 200-300lbs less than him if I had to guess I would say its probably a olympic shot put thrower.
As it stands, I simply need to a) be able to kick ass in the event of an attack or mugging; and b) look big enough that thugs and other miscreants will think twice before attacking me.
To kick ass, training in things other that weight training are the most important. Let me say that again: It’s the training outside of the weight room that will help you most if you are attacked.
On more than one occasion, while walking with my wife, groups of people who were mocking people who walked by them literally went silent when I walked by.
On another occasion, someone with road rage started running up to my parked car to “attack” me. Upon seeing me exit my car, he literally turned around and scurried away like a rat.
So being bigger than average helps perform a very valuable function. [/quote]
Why the fuck does this always turn into a who can beat up who thing? Seriously how often do the majority of people have to fight. In a streetfight the guy who will win in a somewhat equal match is the guy who has the intent to maim.
Anyways why are we still arguing over this fucking topic. Strength is functional no matter what. I train like a bodybuilder, and even though I am not huge people as me to help them move shit all the time. I have never had to say “I’m sorry but my strength doesn’t function in that way so I can’t help you”(although maybe I should try it) The only time I can see functional training making sense is when you are talking about training for a specific function like running faster etc.
Fuck Kevin Levrone trains with a split, does isolation movements and uses machines and at his competition weight he can do cartwheels, flips and can run 60 yards nearly as fast as the 2nd fastest man in the world weighing at least 50 lbs more. If that doesn’t kill all this functional training bullshit nothing will.
[quote]n3wb wrote:
And being able to punch hard dosent mean shit if some one weighs 50lbs more than you, they could just get a hold of you and it would be over.[/quote]
I am not sure what you are saying here. Seriously, I’m confused what your point is.
In any event, if you are saying that a person, simply because of his size, could defeat a trained boxer in a fight, then we really have nothing to talk about. (FWIW, I also don’t discuss geography with members of the Flat Earth Society.)
Fuck this is amusing. You guys feed your rage off your own bullshit. Who can punch harder. Probably the biggest dude, but if he cant land the fucking thing what good is it. I just made a point that bigger isn’t always better. Skill wins over size and strength. We all know that.
California
When do I do a pullup in real life? About 2 hours ago while bouldering.
[quote]Tallguyy76 wrote:
Why do people really care how anyone else trains? [/quote]
Jealously. Notice a big guy has never posted a thread saying, “I hate little guys.” It’s always the little guys denigrating people more successful than they are.
Since the mediocre will always outnumber the excellent, this topic will never die. Like a Phoenix, it will arise from its ashes in another several months.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
When do I do a pullup in real life? About 2 hours ago while bouldering. [/quote]
Great. Then you should absolutely worry about how many pull-ups you can do. I’m a desk jokey. So long as I can type, I can earn my living. Actually, I exercise my wrist extensors using a rubber band. So I absolutely train functionally.
If I climbed rocks, I would do chin-ups. If I twirled a baton, then I’d do whatever baton twirlers do.
Function is relative. Which is why saying, “I train functionally” truly is a banal statement. Everyone who trains intelligently, trains functionally. People just have different functions in life.
Oh, and if I were walking down the street in a big city, I’d absolutely hope I had trained functionally and looked like X or Amsterdam Animal. Because guys who look like that don’t get mugged. If training a certain way that also deters criminals is not functional, then what is?
But keep climbing your rocks and then mocking bodybuilders on a bodybuilding website. It’s actually humorous - in a jesterish sort of way. It’s like a big guy going to RockClimbersWorld.com and bragging about his physique. Just as they’d say, “WTF does this have to do with anything?” people say the same thing about your posts.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
When do I do a pullup in real life? About 2 hours ago while bouldering.
Great. Then you should absolutely worry about how many pull-ups you can do. I’m a desk jokey. So long as I can type, I can earn my living. Actually, I exercise my wrist extensors using a rubber band. So I absolutely train functionally.
If I climbed rocks, I would do chin-ups. If I twirled a baton, then I’d do whatever baton twirlers do.
Function is relative. Which is why saying, “I train functionally” truly is a banal statement. Everyone who trains intelligently, trains functionally. People just have different functions in life.
Oh, and if I were walking down the street in a big city, I’d absolutely hope I had trained functionally and looked like X or Amsterdam Animal. Because guys who look like that don’t get mugged. If training a certain way that also deters criminals is not functional, then what is?
But keep climbing your rocks and then mocking bodybuilders on a bodybuilding website. It’s actually humorous - in a jesterish sort of way. It’s like a big guy going to RockClimbersWorld.com and bragging about his physique. Just as they’d say, “WTF does this have to do with anything?” people say the same thing about your posts.
Continue with the entertainment.[/quote]
I’m glad we agree.
I don’t consider this site an exclusive bodybuilding site although most people here are bodybuilders. I do question the way some train even though I’m not a big or strong as them . Many people get away with sloppy form or crap exercise selection, but many more get injured. I’m just looking for more ways to avoid the injuries while maximizing gains.
Its part of my job to have an opinion on this. So the why do you care question is answered.
[quote]n3wb wrote:
Prof X dosent “laugh on the inside” at people who are bigger and stronger than him regardless of how they train.
At least not in the posts I have seen from him.
Your stats came into play when you talked shit about a 400lb squat.[/quote]
I’m sorry, I should’ve specified. I wasn’t laughing at him achieving a 400 lb squat, but he felt that 400 lbs was a fine place to stop goal-wise, when I believe that if you can do 400 lbs, why not go 415?
In fact he gave me advice on shit on the second day I was there. It’s not like we were hostile to each other.
[quote]Sxio wrote:
Many laughs at the ‘who would you rather be punched by?’ comment. I do not want to be punched by the guy who trains to punch things. If all you do is lift weights then you don’t know shit about fighting. [/quote]
Many laughs?
Why is it when someone makes very clear comparisons between two (and only two) very specific examples, does someone need to throw in thier own example and fuck it all up?
The example I gave was incredibly simple. A comparison of an apple to a much stronger apple. Now you go making it into a fruit salad.
The same thing happened when I compared Ronnie Coleman to some little guy doing medicine ball pushups getting in a bar fight.
Next thing you know Royce Gracie is badder than anyone?
[quote]mharmar wrote:
Why the fuck does this always turn into a who can beat up who thing? Seriously how often do the majority of people have to fight. In a streetfight the guy who will win in a somewhat equal match is the guy who has the intent to maim.
Anyways why are we still arguing over this fucking topic. Strength is functional no matter what. I train like a bodybuilder, and even though I am not huge people as me to help them move shit all the time. I have never had to say “I’m sorry but my strength doesn’t function in that way so I can’t help you”(although maybe I should try it) The only time I can see functional training making sense is when you are talking about training for a specific function like running faster etc.
Fuck Kevin Levrone trains with a split, does isolation movements and uses machines and at his competition weight he can do cartwheels, flips and can run 60 yards nearly as fast as the 2nd fastest man in the world weighing at least 50 lbs more. If that doesn’t kill all this functional training bullshit nothing will.[/quote]
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
When do I do a pullup in real life? About 2 hours ago while bouldering.
Great. Then you should absolutely worry about how many pull-ups you can do. I’m a desk jokey. So long as I can type, I can earn my living. Actually, I exercise my wrist extensors using a rubber band. So I absolutely train functionally.
If I climbed rocks, I would do chin-ups. If I twirled a baton, then I’d do whatever baton twirlers do.
Function is relative. Which is why saying, “I train functionally” truly is a banal statement. Everyone who trains intelligently, trains functionally. People just have different functions in life.
Oh, and if I were walking down the street in a big city, I’d absolutely hope I had trained functionally and looked like X or Amsterdam Animal. Because guys who look like that don’t get mugged. If training a certain way that also deters criminals is not functional, then what is?
But keep climbing your rocks and then mocking bodybuilders on a bodybuilding website. It’s actually humorous - in a jesterish sort of way. It’s like a big guy going to RockClimbersWorld.com and bragging about his physique. Just as they’d say, “WTF does this have to do with anything?” people say the same thing about your posts.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Fuck this is amusing. You guys feed your rage off your own bullshit. Who can punch harder. Probably the biggest dude, but if he cant land the fucking thing what good is it. I just made a point that bigger isn’t always better. Skill wins over size and strength. We all know that.
California
When do I do a pullup in real life? About 2 hours ago while bouldering.
PoofX
I’m so jealous of you. You’re my hero. [/quote]
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
But its fun to laugh at the big strong bodybuilder who struggles to do a chin up. I’ve seen such things on my travels.
Serious question: When in real life have you needed to do a pull-up?
I live in the civilized world. I don’t need to climb trees, ropes, or scale walls. If I needed to do such things, then chin-ups would be helpful.
… [/quote]
Real life does not require benching 400 pounds.
A 160 pounder is better suited to go through modern life than 250 pounder.
Clothes are easier to find, airplane seats are more comfortable etc.
We train because we want to be better than average. There are many different goals.
What I don’t understand is why someone comes to a forum centered around bodybuilding and insults bodybuilders.
I’m sorry, I should’ve specified. I wasn’t laughing at him achieving a 400 lb squat, but he felt that 400 lbs was a fine place to stop goal-wise, when I believe that if you can do 400 lbs, why not go 415?
… [/quote]
Because 415 looks silly. 4 big plates and then a little 5 pounder.
[quote]
mharmar wrote:
…
Fuck Kevin Levrone trains with a split, does isolation movements and uses machines and at his competition weight he can do cartwheels, flips and can run 60 yards nearly as fast as the 2nd fastest man in the world weighing at least 50 lbs more.
…[/quote]
Does anyone have the video or know the whole story behind this sprint?
From Wikipedia:
In a bid to gain respectability from other sports, Levrone proclaimed himself to be the world’s fastest man, based on a hand-timed 40m of 4.1 seconds. A challenge to race Olympic champion Maurice Greene was never met, but instead, former British sprinter Dwain Chambers raced, and comprehensively beat Levrone over 60m.
If someone laughed at me for not being able to do an exercise to their liking, I would beat the hell out of them with their “functional” kettlebell.
If a guy is 250 pounds of muscle, who the fuck cares if he can or cant do a pull-up. I am sure he can destroy you in almost every other exercise (no, 1 legged bosu ball squats while doing isolateral rotations does NOT count).
I guess he cant sign up for any of pavels gay challenges or enter spetznaz or whatever it is you functional guys like to play.
As for the punching thing. When I was 130 pounds I hit pretty hard. However, hitting hard means jack shit when a guy two times your size barrels into you. Now at 170 I hit even harder but have some more bw to back it up.
I’m sorry, I should’ve specified. I wasn’t laughing at him achieving a 400 lb squat, but he felt that 400 lbs was a fine place to stop goal-wise, when I believe that if you can do 400 lbs, why not go 415?
…
Because 415 looks silly. 4 big plates and then a little 5 pounder.[/quote]
Haha, true. Let me correct that; “why not go 500?”
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Stabilizer muscles in bodybuilding have ALWAYS referred to the muscles assisting in the movement that are not the direct targets of the movement itself. In a bench press, any other muscle assisting in moving the weight and maintaining control of it other than the pectorals is considered a “stabilizer” in that movement.[/quote]
You can’t redefine words on the fly and expect people to follow or agree. A stabilizer stabilizes a joint. It contracts isometrically. The fact that people around you use sloppy terminology doesn’t legitimize it.
Oops, incorrect. Let’s simplify things. Look at arm curls. The target is the Biceps Brachi, but the other elbow flexors, Brachialis and Brachioradialis assist in the elbow flex. The amount of assistance is dictated by the pronation of the forearm.
Now, the anterior deltoid also flexes during the curl. Otherwise, the shoulder would hyperextend* due do gravity. The wrist flexors also contract, to prevent extension of the wrists. And to prevent depression and retraction of the scapula, the Levator Scapulae and the Upper/Middle Tapezius must also contract. All of these muscles don’t change length. They stabilize your position. They are stabilizers.
If you didn’t know this, now you do.
*Hyperextend means the shoulder would extend such that the elbow is behind the coronal plane. The upper arm is supposed to lie in the coronal plane during a curl.
