[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
But its fun to laugh at the big strong bodybuilder who struggles to do a chin up. I’ve seen such things on my travels.
[/quote]
But if they were your weight they would be able to do alot more pullups than you. You also seem to have over looked the fact they they ARE BIG. They can also squat and probably bench more than you. Injury or not they must be more functional.
[quote]n3wb wrote:
Prof X dosent “laugh on the inside” at people who are bigger and stronger than him regardless of how they train.
At least not in the posts I have seen from him.
[/quote]
I never would. I would assume (and always have) that I could learn something from them, not assume they are doing everything wrong and laugh at them.
The comment “Dixon” made about laughing at a bodybuilder who couldn’t do a chin up is also ridiculous. Maybe he hadn’t done chin ups in a very long time, like many other lifters. It would be extremely stupid to laugh at someone because they hadn’t done an exercise in a while when it is clear they had achieved more than most ever will when it comes to overall size and strength.
Little guys feel the need to laugh at others in the gym when they have achieved more than they have. It helps them feel better about themselves.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
I honestly believe if we discussing this in person it would go alot smoother.[/quote]
This is a fair point, probably for a lot of stuff that goes on here.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
<<< But its fun to laugh at the big strong bodybuilder who struggles to do a chin up. I’ve seen such things on my travels.
[/quote]
I really don’t understand this “naa na naa na naa naa, my ways better than yours” thing. I don’t laugh at anybody who is achieving their goals, assuming they reach even somewhat beyond rank mediocrity, no matter what they are.
I also couldn’t care less about a lot of things for myself that still impress me when somebody else can do them. By the same token what difference does it make if someone can’t do something you or some other functional guy can do if it’s not what they’re trying to be good at.
There IS resentment going on here. I don’t get it. I really HATE figure skating, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend what they do doesn’t take talent, discipline and dedication.
And it would be even more fun if that BB’er was me, turns around, and punches your fucking lights out.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
keaster wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Why the fuck should my stats come into play when all I did was say that I thought the phrase “functional training” is useless? And Dixon-thanks for keeping this thread alive with your bullshit.
I swear, next time I’ll hesitate before making controversial threads. I didn’t know I (along with Prof. X) would get libeled in the process.
Some of you really need to grow up.
Its becasue you come of as a cocky guy with an inferiority complex. If a guy wants to train “funtionaly” fuck it, who cares. All this philsophical bs is retarded.
PS, do you see the irony in critisizing a 400 pound squat when you cannot do it.
That is like someone criticizing a heavily muscled bodybuilder as being non functional (aka bulky) because one hasn’t (or cant) attain that level.
But its fun to laugh at the big strong bodybuilder who struggles to do a chin up. I’ve seen such things on my travels.
[/quote]
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
And it would be even more fun if that BB’er was me, turns around, and punches your fucking lights out.
[/quote]
According to them, you wouldn’t have the strength to do any damage simply because you hadn’t spent all of your time training SPECIFICALLY for how to hit someone.
It’s getting stupid in here.
[quote]n3wb wrote:
John S. wrote:
Sxio wrote:
Many laughs at the ‘who would you rather be punched by?’ comment. I do not want to be punched by the guy who trains to punch things. If all you do is lift weights then you don’t know shit about fighting.
WHAT??? are you saying someone who benched a lot would not hit like a truck?
All things created equal the heavy bencher would hit harder. I would rather get hit by the strong bencher that dosent train to punch harder.
[/quote]
The heavy bencher would hit alot harder then someone who just trains punches, the person who trains punches learns to manipulate there power the the highest degree, but I have never seen someone who can bench a lot that does not know how to manipuluate there body to hit there hardest.(maybe I just see some oddity’s)
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
There IS resentment going on here. I don’t get it. I really HATE figure skating, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend what they do doesn’t take talent, discipline and dedication.[/quote]
We already covered this. It’s called JEALOUSY. You don’t spend any time laughing at figure skaters because you don’t envy them. I don’t spend time laughing at skinny guys because I don’t want to be like them in any way. They don’t even make a blip on my radar.
Little guys feel left out or inferior in comparison so they look for anything and everything they can about larger lifters in order to degrade them and make themselves feel better.
Sad? Yes. Functional? LOL.
Agreed. Well, as long as he does not make me chase him up any steps, I will take my chances…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Amsterdam Animal wrote:
And it would be even more fun if that BB’er was me, turns around, and punches your fucking lights out.
According to them, you wouldn’t have the strength to do any damage simply because you hadn’t spent all of your time training SPECIFICALLY for how to hit someone.
It’s getting stupid in here.[/quote]
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Agreed. Well, as long as he does not make me chase him up any steps, I will take my chances…
[/quote]
Well, he hasn’t made any progress in two years so he is probably “functional” enough to catch up to you. If I were you, I would quit lifting all of those “unfunctional” heavy weights, lose about 60lbs of all of that “unfunctional” muscle mass, grab a few books from strength coaches and pass your memorized quotes off as actual experience so other people making no progress will be impressed.
[quote]John S. wrote:
The heavy bencher would hit alot harder then someone who just trains punches, the person who trains punches learns to manipulate there power the the highest degree, but I have never seen someone who can bench a lot that does not know how to manipuluate there body to hit there hardest.(maybe I just see some oddity’s)[/quote]
There is no set rule some people will have a strong bench and not be able to hit hard. Some people will have a weak bench and be able to hit hard. It comes natural to some and others it dosent.
My brother used to bench 270 when I benched 210 but I hit harder just because I used the punching bag we had. That is where I got my basic argument from.
I
AA, X you two made me “lollerskate” and “roflcopter” at the same time.
[quote]n3wb wrote:
John S. wrote:
The heavy bencher would hit alot harder then someone who just trains punches, the person who trains punches learns to manipulate there power the the highest degree, but I have never seen someone who can bench a lot that does not know how to manipuluate there body to hit there hardest.(maybe I just see some oddity’s)
There is no set rule some people will have a strong bench and not be able to hit hard. Some people will have a weak bench and be able to hit hard. It comes natural to some and others it dosent.
My brother used to bench 270 when I benched 210 but I hit harder just because I used the punching bag we had. That is where I got my basic argument from.
I[/quote]
How did you test who hit harder?(im not saying it isnt possable). But you have to admit the more you added to your bench you hit a lot harder. You can not disagree with me that a guy who benches 400lbs is not going to hit like a truck.
[quote]Every guy under 160 lbs. wrote:
Royce Gracie![/quote]
Why does every thread about functional strength end up having big names in MMA being thrown around? Oh, that’s right: You guys watch The Ultimate Fighter and thus are prepared to take on people twice your body size!
Here’s my question: How many of you “functionally strong” people have a) a won BJJ tournaments at a purple belt level or higher, or b) have ever fought in a cage, octagon, or ring?
If you haven’t accomplished anything in a fighting art, why do you think that invocations of Royce Gracie are appropriate?
What have you done is what this debate is about. If you can’t win any fights, then you are not functional, since being able to defend one’s self is probably the most essential function any “T-Man” should be able to perform.
Doing workouts in parks doesn’t make you functionally able to kick ass. Kicking ass requires years of specific skills training. Or being god-awfully big and strong. Call me crazy, but I’d take any random dude out of Westside over the “functional” guys on this forum.
But keep tossing around your 35 lb. kettle balls and fantasizing about what you would do in a fight. You are an ass-kicker in your own mind. And damn it, that’s all that really matter!
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Call me crazy, but I’d take any random dude out of Westside over the “functional” guys on this forum.
[/quote]
But their workouts be MAD functional, yo!
Troof.
[quote]John S. wrote:
n3wb wrote:
John S. wrote:
The heavy bencher would hit alot harder then someone who just trains punches, the person who trains punches learns to manipulate there power the the highest degree, but I have never seen someone who can bench a lot that does not know how to manipuluate there body to hit there hardest.(maybe I just see some oddity’s)
There is no set rule some people will have a strong bench and not be able to hit hard. Some people will have a weak bench and be able to hit hard. It comes natural to some and others it dosent.
My brother used to bench 270 when I benched 210 but I hit harder just because I used the punching bag we had. That is where I got my basic argument from.
I
How did you test who hit harder?(im not saying it isnt possable). But you have to admit the more you added to your bench you hit a lot harder. You can not disagree with me that a guy who benches 400lbs is not going to hit like a truck.[/quote]
The bag moved further and I backed them with my whole body. He has weak wrists so that might have held him back from punching as hard, we didnt use wraps… He could never get his fullbody into the punch.
Yeah if you bench 400lbs you will have a very strong punch. If you were a boxer and you benched 400 you would be crushing sculls.
[quote]n3wb wrote:
John S. wrote:
n3wb wrote:
John S. wrote:
The heavy bencher would hit alot harder then someone who just trains punches, the person who trains punches learns to manipulate there power the the highest degree, but I have never seen someone who can bench a lot that does not know how to manipuluate there body to hit there hardest.(maybe I just see some oddity’s)
There is no set rule some people will have a strong bench and not be able to hit hard. Some people will have a weak bench and be able to hit hard. It comes natural to some and others it dosent.
My brother used to bench 270 when I benched 210 but I hit harder just because I used the punching bag we had. That is where I got my basic argument from.
I
How did you test who hit harder?(im not saying it isnt possable). But you have to admit the more you added to your bench you hit a lot harder. You can not disagree with me that a guy who benches 400lbs is not going to hit like a truck.
The bag moved further and I backed them with my whole body. He has weak wrists so that might have held him back from punching as hard, we didnt use wraps… He could never get his fullbody into the punch.
Yeah if you bench 400lbs you will have a very strong punch. If you were a boxer and you benched 400 you would be crushing sculls.
[/quote]
Exactly, If a boxer had a 400lb bench he would be a monster, but my example was lets say you have one guy there with a 200lb bench but is a mma fighter, then you have the guy who benches 400lbs and does bar fights.
What i was saying is the 200lb bench mma fighter is not going to hit harder then the big bencher that is what I was meaning.
And by the way you where describing it your brother did a jab and you did a bomb(tho if he can’t do a bomb that would mean you would have the stronger punch).
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
But its fun to laugh at the big strong bodybuilder who struggles to do a chin up. I’ve seen such things on my travels.[/quote]
Serious question: When in real life have you needed to do a pull-up?
I live in the civilized world. I don’t need to climb trees, ropes, or scale walls. If I needed to do such things, then chin-ups would be helpful.
As it stands, I simply need to a) be able to kick ass in the event of an attack or mugging; and b) look big enough that thugs and other miscreants will think twice before attacking me. To kick ass, training in things other that weight training are the most important. Let me say that again: It’s the training outside of the weight room that will help you most if you are attacked.
But looking the part is very important if you live in an urban area. On more than one occasion, while walking with my wife, groups of people who were mocking people who walked by them literally went silent when I walked by. On another occasion, someone with road rage started running up to my parked car to “attack” me. Upon seeing me exit my car, he literally turned around and scurried away like a rat.
So being bigger than average helps perform a very valuable function.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
According to them, you wouldn’t have the strength to do any damage simply because you hadn’t spent all of your time training SPECIFICALLY for how to hit someone.
It’s getting stupid in here.[/quote]
Here’s what gets me. These “functional” guys aren’t saying, “Go to a boxing gym.” They are saying that since they do push-ups with their 150 lb. selves, they can punch harder. This is so stupid.
None of these guys are saying that a boxer is more functional at fighting than a bodybuilder. This is a no-brainer. They are saying that training with weights or their body weight in a certain manner would translate into more real-world fighting power than lifting heavy stuff.
Again, so stupid.
[quote]John S. wrote:
n3wb wrote:
John S. wrote:
Sxio wrote:
Many laughs at the ‘who would you rather be punched by?’ comment. I do not want to be punched by the guy who trains to punch things. If all you do is lift weights then you don’t know shit about fighting.
WHAT??? are you saying someone who benched a lot would not hit like a truck?
All things created equal the heavy bencher would hit harder. I would rather get hit by the strong bencher that dosent train to punch harder.
The heavy bencher would hit alot harder then someone who just trains punches, the person who trains punches learns to manipulate there power the the highest degree, but I have never seen someone who can bench a lot that does not know how to manipuluate there body to hit there hardest.(maybe I just see some oddity’s)[/quote]
At whay level are you talking about? Wladamir Klitscko probably doesn’t have any idea what he bench presses but I can almost gurantee you that his right hand is much harder then Gene Rylchak’s. Who cares? Gene’s thing is to bench masive amounts of weight. Klitscko’s is to knock peple out. I doubt either loses sleep at night worrying about the other or how they train.
Punching power is one of those elusive things. If the answer was to just give some one a bigger bench then there would not be boxers walking around without punching power. Strong core and legs would have more impact then a strong bench on punching power as that is where your power is generated. If you had said that a person with a big bench hits harder then the average person I would give you that but to say they hit harder then a pro with punching power is crazy. Punching power is something that can be trained to an extent but for the most part it’s technique and just something your born with. The rate of force development for a punch and a bench is totally diffrent. Put your fist against a wall and push as if you are trying to push threw it (benchpress). How much damage are you going to do to it? Now what if you punched the wall. The speed factor makes a huge diffrence.
Why do people really care how anyone else trains? I think there are insecure people on both sides. There are crossfit/functional/MMA wannabes who think they can knockout, chokeout or outperform anybody on the face of the earth and then there are the lifters that don’t understand that just because they are strong that does not make them an instant badass. Think most of us fall in the middle and dont begrudge anyone their goals or how they train.
Before ever even toughing a weight I hit 250 pounds and this was in the army running 4 days a week. I am up to about 290 now but plan on working my way back down to 250 because the extra weight doesn’t fit my personal goals as a recreational athlete. Other’s goals are to get bigger and stronger. Are we going to train the same? No. Am I going to put them down because of their goals? No.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Professor X wrote:
According to them, you wouldn’t have the strength to do any damage simply because you hadn’t spent all of your time training SPECIFICALLY for how to hit someone.
It’s getting stupid in here.
Here’s what gets me. These “functional” guys aren’t saying, “Go to a boxing gym.” They are saying that since they do push-ups with their 150 lb. selves, they can punch harder. This is so stupid.
None of these guys are saying that a boxer is more functional at fighting than a bodybuilder. This is a no-brainer. They are saying that training with weights or their body weight in a certain manner would translate into more real-world fighting power than lifting heavy stuff.
Again, so stupid.[/quote]
If your refering to me…
I think months of working with a heavy bag and getting your form down will get you a stronger punch. Not doing endless fingertip clap pushups.
And being able to punch hard dosent mean shit if some one weighs 50lbs more than you, they could just get a hold of you and it would be over.
Im not even saying a boxer is more functional as a fighter. Im saying they might not be near as strong as you but they can most likley punch a hell of alot harder.