I KO'ed Functional Training

[quote]Tallguyy76 wrote:
John S. wrote:
n3wb wrote:
John S. wrote:
Sxio wrote:

Many laughs at the ‘who would you rather be punched by?’ comment. I do not want to be punched by the guy who trains to punch things. If all you do is lift weights then you don’t know shit about fighting.

WHAT??? are you saying someone who benched a lot would not hit like a truck?

All things created equal the heavy bencher would hit harder. I would rather get hit by the strong bencher that dosent train to punch harder.

The heavy bencher would hit alot harder then someone who just trains punches, the person who trains punches learns to manipulate there power the the highest degree, but I have never seen someone who can bench a lot that does not know how to manipuluate there body to hit there hardest.(maybe I just see some oddity’s)

At whay level are you talking about? Wladamir Klitscko probably doesn’t have any idea what he bench presses but I can almost gurantee you that his right hand is much harder then Gene Rylchak’s. Who cares? Gene’s thing is to bench masive amounts of weight. Klitscko’s is to knock peple out. I doubt either loses sleep at night worrying about the other or how they train.

Punching power is one of those elusive things. If the answer was to just give some one a bigger bench then there would not be boxers walking around without punching power. Strong core and legs would have more impact then a strong bench on punching power as that is where your power is generated. If you had said that a person with a big bench hits harder then the average person I would give you that but to say they hit harder then a pro with punching power is crazy. Punching power is something that can be trained to an extent but for the most part it’s technique and just something your born with. The rate of force development for a punch and a bench is totally diffrent. Put your fist against a wall and push as if you are trying to push threw it (benchpress). How much damage are you going to do to it? Now what if you punched the wall. The speed factor makes a huge diffrence.

Why do people really care how anyone else trains? I think there are insecure people on both sides. There are crossfit/functional/MMA wannabes who think they can knockout, chokeout or outperform anybody on the face of the earth and then there are the lifters that don’t understand that just because they are strong that does not make them an instant badass. Think most of us fall in the middle and dont begrudge anyone their goals or how they train.

Before ever even toughing a weight I hit 250 pounds and this was in the army running 4 days a week. I am up to about 290 now but plan on working my way back down to 250 because the extra weight doesn’t fit my personal goals as a recreational athlete. Other’s goals are to get bigger and stronger. Are we going to train the same? No. Am I going to put them down because of their goals? No.

[/quote]

Im not saying the bench is the only peice, If someone has a good squat bench and deadlift they are going to hit like trucks. I have seen my punching power and Everyone elses increase when they did bench squats and deads.

Is techniq important the answer is YES, but are you saying that a guy could bench 135 and just use techniq is somehow going to hit harder then a guy benching 225? and I have yet to see someone in a fight primarily throw bombs evertime I have either been or have seen a fight, no one sits there and throws bombs, usually it goes like this 2 jabs and a Right/Left depending on wich is stronger, then if the guy is still standing they throw there bomb and its over.

I dont care how much tech you got a guy who can produce more force is going to hit harder, hell if that wasn’t the case you would see all these 250lb body builders and powerlifters getting there ass kicked by these 160lb mma fighters, have you ever seen this because I sure as hell havn’t

Oh well, agree to disagree.

This thread is gay and needs to die.

[quote]malonetd wrote:
keaster wrote:
This thread is retarded.

I agree.

Nice (with a borat voice).

I think this thread has lowered my IQ by at least 10 points. I feel dirty for having posted in it. I blame the bender I went on this weekend.

I wonder if 20 years from now people in the strength and conditioning field are going to look back at this period and refer to it as the great functional/non-funtional wars of 2007.

Weight: 160 lbs
Height: 5’6"
Body fat %: 14%
Years Training: 1.11

7 pages of moronic babbling over this? This is the guy who “KO’ed” functional training.

Any training is good. Some is better than others for a specific purpose. Normal people don’t even train, and should be weaker and slower than those who do.
Everybody on the internet is a badass ninja, so skilled that you’ll never see them on the street.

The worst left hand I’ve ever seen comes from a 365 bencher. A strongman with a 550+ dead has the hardest right, but he still gets schooled. Second strongest right comes from a 5’9 150lb’er, obviously a much smaller man with near equal power. Strength is a factor.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
n3wb wrote:
And being able to punch hard dosent mean shit if some one weighs 50lbs more than you, they could just get a hold of you and it would be over.

I am not sure what you are saying here. Seriously, I’m confused what your point is.

In any event, if you are saying that a person, simply because of his size, could defeat a trained boxer in a fight, then we really have nothing to talk about. (FWIW, I also don’t discuss geography with members of the Flat Earth Society.) [/quote]

Boxer vs Large guy.

Every one keeps trying to make it a definite. Like its one way or the other. Boxers fight on thier feet if you take that away thier davantage is lost especialy if you are much bigger and stronger.

Most real fights arent some roadhouse bar fight. They end up on the floor where usualy the biger and stronger guy would win.

I remember one fight I lost to a smaller guy just because he was a boxer and I didnt understand that if I played his game I would lose. That game being fighting on my feet, Lesson learned.

Hope this is more clear.

EDIT: the black guy is some freak I saw on bb.com

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
This thread is gay and needs to die.[/quote]

Agreed.

How strong was the smaller guy, Size has its place but Im here discussing strength. If you can produce more force you, the more force will be put out.

Tech should be used after you have a good amount of force built up, if your benching 200 You can have all the tech in the world, someone who benches 300lb’s and has even the faint idea of how to throw a punch is going to produce more force(i.e. hit harder).

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

mharmar wrote:

Fuck Kevin Levrone trains with a split, does isolation movements and uses machines and at his competition weight he can do cartwheels, flips and can run 60 yards nearly as fast as the 2nd fastest man in the world weighing at least 50 lbs more.

Does anyone have the video or know the whole story behind this sprint?

From Wikipedia:

In a bid to gain respectability from other sports, Levrone proclaimed himself to be the world’s fastest man, based on a hand-timed 40m of 4.1 seconds. A challenge to race Olympic champion Maurice Greene was never met, but instead, former British sprinter Dwain Chambers raced, and comprehensively beat Levrone over 60m.

Is this accurate?[/quote]

Here is the race www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bigrace.htm

[quote]DrVonNostrand wrote:
Weight: 160 lbs
Height: 5’6"
Body fat %: 14%
Years Training: 1.11

7 pages of moronic babbling over this? This is the guy who “KO’ed” functional training.

[/quote]

That is exactly what I was saying.

A little lesson for the OP (and that dixon guy) in future

Posting on T-Nation does not make you an automatic badass that can criticize other guys and throw your “knowledge” around. laughing at a lift you have not attained is stupid. Laughing at a guy that is way bigger than you is not a good idea.

This reminds me of when people question the form of guys like Cressey on a max effort lift. Its just plain stupid.

And to add one more thing- Fulmen, whats with the 1.11 years of training?

[quote]mharmar wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

mharmar wrote:

Fuck Kevin Levrone trains with a split, does isolation movements and uses machines and at his competition weight he can do cartwheels, flips and can run 60 yards nearly as fast as the 2nd fastest man in the world weighing at least 50 lbs more.

Does anyone have the video or know the whole story behind this sprint?

From Wikipedia:

In a bid to gain respectability from other sports, Levrone proclaimed himself to be the world’s fastest man, based on a hand-timed 40m of 4.1 seconds. A challenge to race Olympic champion Maurice Greene was never met, but instead, former British sprinter Dwain Chambers raced, and comprehensively beat Levrone over 60m.

Is this accurate?

Here is the race www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bigrace.htm [/quote]

Thanks. I can’t wait to get home and watch it. My work computer doesn’t have Real Player or the Apple Player.

[quote]mharmar wrote:

Here is the race www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bigrace.htm[/quote]

Thanks for the link.

It’s nice to see the sportsmanship between Levrone and Chambers before and after the race.

It was also cool to see Gunter and Milos there to support Levrone.

here’s a real world example of skill vs size.

I hope the link works.

Goodness Gracious (whatever that means), I didn’t redefine words on the fly. I gave you the definition as it has been in bodybuilding circles for decades. This is like arguing against the use of the term “upper chest”. No, you don’t have an “upper chest” but a pec major and pec minor. That doesn’t erase the legitimacy of the term as it relates to bodybuilding.

I even wrote what I was saying pretty clearly before. I suppose you were taking this as an opportunity to show what you know. I will be sure to add to my mental library that slang terms used in bodybuilding are not allowed on a FREAKING BODYBUILDING FORUM. WTF? Even the authors on this site often use “stabilizer muscle” as a general term but thank you for that exhibition.

If you want to discuss kinesiology(which you clearly don’t you just want to prove something to either yourself or others) that site you gave for “stabilizer muscle” lists the definition as “[quote] A muscle that contracts with no significant movement to maintian a posture or fixate a joint. [/quote]”.

In fact, this site: Dictionary of Weightlifting, Bodybuilding, and Exercise Terms and Techniques

Is a good resource for bodybuilding terminology and it lists “stabilizer muscle” as being: [quote] muscles that assist in the performance of an exercise by steadying the joint or limb being moved, but not increasing the force being applied. [/quote] It also lists synergistic muscles as being, “[quote] muscles that assist in the performance of an exercise by adding to the force required to execute the movement [/quote]”

In the case of a bench press, that would make every muscle from biceps and lats to lateral delts as a “stabilizer” for the movement with muscles like the triceps and even anterior delts as “synergists”.

Perhaps next on your list of things to conquer, you can add “Scott curls” (I mean, there is no muscle named Scott) or even put an end to the debate of pull overs increasing the size of your diaphragm. I mean, Arnold believed it.

Thats grappling.

All other things being the same, skill (and luck) will make the difference…guaranteed.
In certain situations you can supplement a relative lack of strength with a surplus of skill /technique and timing. In certain situations, you can cancel out a skill difference with extra strength/power.

Luck and heart/determination/willpower play a HUGE role in almost all situations. I doubt you can compare skill and strength directly since you will find too many examples for either case.

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Skill wins over size and strength. We all know that.

California
When do I do a pullup in real life? About 2 hours ago while bouldering.

PoofX
I’m so jealous of you. You’re my hero. [/quote]

[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
All other things being the same, skill (and luck) will make the difference…guaranteed.
In certain situations you can supplement a relative lack of strength with a surplus of skill /technique and timing. In certain situations, you can cancel out a skill difference with extra strength/power.

Luck and heart/determination/willpower play a HUGE role in almost all situations. I doubt you can compare skill and strength directly since you will find too many examples for either case.
[/quote]

You guys are all idiots. Winning a fight depends on the clothes you have on.

“i wear mostly sports clothing as i can’t stand the feeling of being trapped in my clothes with no mobility especially in the legs. i want to be able to throw kicks and knees at any time without being resticted by my pants.”

[quote]keaster wrote:
laughing at a lift you have not attained is stupid. Laughing at a guy that is way bigger than you is not a good idea.

And to add one more thing- Fulmen, whats with the 1.11 years of training? [/quote]

I’ve learned my lesson (and still learning)and know not to laugh about things like that. Hopefully you all see that. However, the guy was smaller than me.

If you must know, I spent a lot of my time just learning; I didn’t have anyone to tell me stuff relating to working out, so I had to learn on my own (hence me being so thankful for this site).

Since all of that is cleared up, I hope we can all move on and let the thread die. I was, after all, just giving my opinion on a terminology.

[quote]malonetd wrote:

You guys are all idiots. Winning a fight depends on the clothes you have on.
[/quote]

I agree on the first part.

[quote]Sliver wrote:

here’s a real world example of skill vs size.

I hope the link works.
[/quote]

We are talking about some one who knows how to throw a punch. not some one who knows Brazilian jiu jitsu.

Terms are Big guy who dosent box little guy who boxes who would win in a all out knock down drag out fight. THE BIG GUY