It’s odd how I can’t seem to find much about this when I google it. But I really am having trouble disassociating my thoracic spine from my lumbar spine. I’ve been doing Neanderthal No More (parts 1 and 2) for a couple of months now, and every time I think I’ve figured out how to do something right, I just get more confused.
With t-spine extensions, I don’t understand how to bend the upper back without bending the lower back. When I try to do it on a roller, I feel like I’m either bending at the lumbar spine, or just pushing my head back towards the floor. I try to keep my abs braced, but even that has so many connotations.
I can either try to stick my stomach out and posteriorly tilt my pelvis, where the part right above my buttocks ends up on the floor, or suck my stomach in, etc etc… but I still feel like I have to increase the arch in that mid-lower back area to bend back.
i have to tell myself anatomical lies to get my body to make sense of this…
one way i like to think of it is having an imaginary line at the bottom of the thoracic region. if you make a belt with your hands you should be able to do that around the line of your lower ribs (roughly) and then the idea is to bend back from there rather than lower down. you probably won’t succeed very much the actual movement is fairly small) but the idea is to hinge from there rather than lower down.
one exercise i really like is to lie on my stomach and then try and stretch myself out as long as i can. reaching back with my legs. also stretching forwards with my arms. try and stretch myself out as long as possible. then… to raise up my chin and then my chest while keeping the lumbar region relaxed. so you certainly won’t get very far to start with. you won’t be able to prop yourself up on your elbows to start with most probably. you might be able to rest your chin on your fists, though.
i relax into it as best as I’m able. try and hinge from the lower thoracic (make the belt with your hands if you need a reminder). relax the lumbar. stretch length before hinging. long breath in to stretch… long breath out to relax lumbar and gently hinge from thoracic.
i can now work quite happily on my computer from my stomach propping myself up on my elbows and my lumbar spine fucking loves it. hip flexors, too. wonderful antidote position to sitting, i’ve found.
ooh… i think it has something to do with the diaphram, too. it is around the level of the diaphram, i think.
the actual movement is subtle. maybe that is the trouble that you are having with the exercise. it will take significant time to extend the thoracic spine back. also… remember that the thoracic spine is actually curved in the other direction. so eliminating the curve it has already got is significant, never mind actually inducing a curve in the other direction (does that make sense)
Yeah, agree with alexus above, unless you have a severely Kyphotic posture/Upper Crossed Syndrome, then Thoracic extensions aren’t going to do much for you IMO, and you won’t notice much ROM performing them. I also agree that trying to do then on a roller is difficult due to the lack of lower back support.
This works much better:
The thing is though that you also need to really strengthen the upper back muscles, external rotators, scapular retractors, and scapular depressors if you want to fix a Kyphotic posture; passive flexibility in and of itself won’t be enough to hold you in the right position against the effects of gravity.
Alexus: awesome reply, I actually started trying to “hinge from the ribs yesterday” and felt like I was doing it right. But the problem is when i try to stretch out lengthwise, I feel like i’m actually extending my spine, but I have to breathe into the chest to do it. i know that is not the correct way to breathe.
Sentoguy: i’ve definitely been trying to strengthen all of those with the neanderthal no more program. that video didn’t show up. do you have a link?
the dude in that vid above is awesome . Really recommend his vids. I don’t have kyphosis, so I don’t know anything about fixing it. I do a lot of computer work, though, so I’m fairly anxious to prevent it.
The breathing thing you found… I find that, too. I’m not entirely sure what to say about it… I’ve learned a lot from the guy in the vid (used to train with people who trained with him) so even when I’ve picked stuff up down the line he has fairly often turned out to be the source… He has stuff to say about breath and how you utilize that to stretch yourself in position then relax with the stretch. My thoughts are unclear because I’m still figuring it out / learning from my experience there. Rehabilitating from 15+ years of heavy smoking, too. Sure my lung elasticity is crap and I have abdominal spillage unless making a conscious effort not to… I"m not entirely sure how to fix it…
I actually started trying to “hinge from the ribs yesterday” and felt like I was doing it right.
that is great by the way.
i sometimes work on back-bend, too. i am not very good at it. one of my (kit trained) teachers told me to reach up up up and over rather than thinking of it as a back bend. you can feel when you get it right - it doesn’t hurt! the more you relax into it - the more movement you get. but it is a process of trusting your body to keep with the not-hurting version of the movement rather than painfully bending from the lumbar spine.
Is there something similar to the device in that video I can use to help me re-learn thoracic extension? I’m still trying with a foam roller but it’s hit or miss. In terms of strengthening the upper back muscles, external rotators, scapular retractors, and scapular depressors, I continue to try to do this, but even after 2 months, I feel like I haven’t actually been able to get these areas stronger. I still frustratingly concentrate on keeping the form right and maintaining a neutral spine, which unfortunately is just as hard as it was at the beginning, if not harder due to overthinking now.
One of my biggest problems is that I am not clear of how to “lengthen” the spine in general. I I’m having a difficult time understanding if I use those muscles to extend the spine, or if I do something else. For example, I can pull my stomach far in and sort of stretch the area in the sides right under my ribs, which I think just elevates the ribcage up, but it feels awkward, is hard to hold, and sometimes feels like I’m holding my breath. Or could sort of try and lift the ribcage up and back, but unless I flex like hell to keep the lumbar stable, it will bend. Even when trying to keep it stable, I still feel like the arch in my lower back is too big.
Sometimes, I think things click, because I feel like my breathing becomes easy, my voice becomes effortlessly clear and resonant, and I’m somewhat relaxed, but I can’t replicate this to practice it at will. Sorry for the long and probably confusing post.
I have different diamiters of PCV pipe at the gym, 3ft lengths from 2 inch - to 12 inch, they work great for different stretching and rolling, and they’re cheap.Do pretty much the same as vid.
