[quote]Define “complete martial art”
Cant wait to hear this.[/quote]
Has a solid striking system and leg/ankle locks?
It’s p funny that I’ve tapped out BJJ guys with ankle tweaks, because apparently, when they roll, that’s not allowed…lol okay. So much for your super secret brazilian fighting secrets.
[quote]smokotime wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]smokotime wrote:Increased ability to take punishment.
[/quote]
Where did you pull this from?[/quote]
I was under the impression that carrying around extra muscle mass helped when taking blows to the upper arm, back, upper legs, and the abdominal/rib area (to a lesser degree). Of course, a blow to a vulnerable joint or the face/jaw isn’t going to be diminished by muscle.
Admittedly I’m not going from scientific studies or anything. It is just something that is taken for granted in contact sports that I’ve played that the bigger more muscular guys are able to take more hits and fatigue less from heavy contact than significantly smaller guys; also it is echoed by the boxers I know, though I am lacking in personal experience in that regard. [/quote]
Yes, but this would be more of a factor of muscle mass and less of height.
Are we arguing that in a fight, height is defining factor (big as in tall) or that mass (big as in heavy) is?
5’5 175 pound guy versus a 6 foot 180 pound guy. Both have equal fighting skills.
Who do you think wins? My money is on the heavier guy, shorter guy.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]tom63 wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]JCholeras wrote:
My roommate at school just started doing jujitsu about 2 months ago and now never shuts up about how he could “tap” everyone. He is 6’3 170lbs by the way and has a worse body than Gumby but no matter who gets brought up he says he could tap them, especially when he is drunk. It is by far the most annoying thing ever. He also tries to critique my diet saying eating 2 chicken breasts in one sitting is “unhealthy” as he demolishes a whole box of Kraft Dinner while drinking a can of Coke.[/quote]
There’s a lot of awful people in this world, and your roommate sounds like one. I suggest you beat him in the night with a blackjack.[/quote]
I bought an old fashioned sap from the fellow I mentioned. He’s a custom knife guy but likes making stuff. I think it’s 16ozs and a whack to the back of the head when you’re not looking might be permanent lights out. As you said ferocity does matter.
Especially if they have a stick, knife etc.[/quote]
That’s cool man. Those things are underrated… the only thing is that if you’re caught with it, good luck in telling the cop that it’s some kind of tool and not a weapon haha.[/quote]
I bought it from Kevin McClung, aka Mad Dog Irish. He’s into making stuff. A fantastic knifemaker, but also a darn good gunsmith etc. He’s always been fascinated by weapons. This is more a museum piece, haha!
there are plenty other weapons out there that don’t look like weapons, and seriously, if I’m in deep shit, I have a gun permit. It’s a little more clear with guns than other weapons. After a lot of searching, I still can’t get a good handle on Pa. lawas regarding knives in self defense.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]tom63 wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]JCholeras wrote:
My roommate at school just started doing jujitsu about 2 months ago and now never shuts up about how he could “tap” everyone. He is 6’3 170lbs by the way and has a worse body than Gumby but no matter who gets brought up he says he could tap them, especially when he is drunk. It is by far the most annoying thing ever. He also tries to critique my diet saying eating 2 chicken breasts in one sitting is “unhealthy” as he demolishes a whole box of Kraft Dinner while drinking a can of Coke.[/quote]
There’s a lot of awful people in this world, and your roommate sounds like one. I suggest you beat him in the night with a blackjack.[/quote]
I bought an old fashioned sap from the fellow I mentioned. He’s a custom knife guy but likes making stuff. I think it’s 16ozs and a whack to the back of the head when you’re not looking might be permanent lights out. As you said ferocity does matter.
Especially if they have a stick, knife etc.[/quote]
That’s cool man. Those things are underrated… the only thing is that if you’re caught with it, good luck in telling the cop that it’s some kind of tool and not a weapon haha.[/quote]
Sorry, the second paragraph in my post was in regard to if others have a weapon, you could be in trouble. And weapons are available everywhere. Not sap vs stick of knife.
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
[quote]Define “complete martial art”
Cant wait to hear this.[/quote]
Has a solid striking system and leg/ankle locks?
It’s p funny that I’ve tapped out BJJ guys with ankle tweaks, because apparently, when they roll, that’s not allowed…lol okay. So much for your super secret brazilian fighting secrets.[/quote]
Umm…I dont know where you get your information, but lower rank BJJ fighters cant use leg/ankle locks in tournaments. Thats true. But, there are tons of leg and ankle locks in the BJJ system. Off the top of my head, ankle Kimura, heel hooks, and knee bars not to mention the reaps you can use for take downs. They dont teach lower ranks these techniques because its really easy to seriously injure your training partners and you really need to know what you are doing. But keep talking out your ass. It’s funny. Theres no striking per se, I’ll give you that. If you are good enough, you wont need it. Thats the point. They dont call it the gentle art for nothing. I’d rather choke someone out than punch them in the face, but punching and kicking people in the face is a lot of fun.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]smokotime wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]smokotime wrote:Increased ability to take punishment.
[/quote]
Where did you pull this from?[/quote]
I was under the impression that carrying around extra muscle mass helped when taking blows to the upper arm, back, upper legs, and the abdominal/rib area (to a lesser degree). Of course, a blow to a vulnerable joint or the face/jaw isn’t going to be diminished by muscle.
Admittedly I’m not going from scientific studies or anything. It is just something that is taken for granted in contact sports that I’ve played that the bigger more muscular guys are able to take more hits and fatigue less from heavy contact than significantly smaller guys; also it is echoed by the boxers I know, though I am lacking in personal experience in that regard. [/quote]
Yes, but this would be more of a factor of muscle mass and less of height.
Are we arguing that in a fight, height is defining factor (big as in tall) or that mass (big as in heavy) is?
5’5 175 pound guy versus a 6 foot 180 pound guy. Both have equal fighting skills.
Who do you think wins? My money is on the heavier guy, shorter guy.
[/quote]
If someone is taller, heavier, and carrying around more muscle on their frame then they are definitively “bigger” and to be honest, in the context of the OP I just assumed thats what was being talked about. My apologies if I wasn’t clear about that! 
You do raise an interesting point with the height vs. muscle mass though. I’d argue that both contribute as defining factors; it’d just depend on the fight as to how much.
When punches are being thrown, height is a very good thing. It’s a hell of a lot harder to hit someone in the face when they’re a foot taller, and you can’t get as much force into it. Conversely, it’s a lot easier for them to keep you at range and get power behind their punches.
Mass is a bit trickier. In the example you gave it’s implicit that the shorter guy is carrying a greater proportion of muscle and would be stronger as well, and that’s why he’s a greater chance to win. If I was to change the 6 foot 180 pound guy to a 6’8" 220 lb guy, the shorter guy would still be carrying a greater proportion of muscle and he’d still (presumably) be stronger, but I think you’d be less sure of the outcome. You can’t mess with physics, and even if someone is as weak as hell they aren’t going to be tossed around if they weigh 400lbs.
Muscle is still quite important in the mass equation; all I’m trying do is illustrate that even in the absence of “more” muscle than the other man, extra mass can still disadvantage the lighter guy.
When someone has all the advantages of being bigger and stronger it isn’t to be treated with contempt as they are real, tangible advantages. I feel that someone weighing 150 who says they “Kick any big guys ass” since they do martial art X hasn’t had the basic experience of trying to move or getting hit by someone weighing 300, let alone full contact work.
Even the brutal approach talked about by FightingIrish shows some respect to the opponents ability, as it ends the fight as quickly as possible to reduce the risk to yourself. Talking shit like so many people seem to these days doesn’t show any respect at all.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]smokotime wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]smokotime wrote:Increased ability to take punishment.
[/quote]
Where did you pull this from?[/quote]
I was under the impression that carrying around extra muscle mass helped when taking blows to the upper arm, back, upper legs, and the abdominal/rib area (to a lesser degree). Of course, a blow to a vulnerable joint or the face/jaw isn’t going to be diminished by muscle.
Admittedly I’m not going from scientific studies or anything. It is just something that is taken for granted in contact sports that I’ve played that the bigger more muscular guys are able to take more hits and fatigue less from heavy contact than significantly smaller guys; also it is echoed by the boxers I know, though I am lacking in personal experience in that regard. [/quote]
Yes, but this would be more of a factor of muscle mass and less of height.
Are we arguing that in a fight, height is defining factor (big as in tall) or that mass (big as in heavy) is?
5’5 175 pound guy versus a 6 foot 180 pound guy. Both have equal fighting skills.
Who do you think wins? My money is on the heavier guy, shorter guy.
[/quote]
I’d say it depends where they’re fighting. If the short guy knows how to infight, he’s going to be brutal in a bar, or in a parking lot filled with cars.
However, if the taller guy can box and move, in an open space he’d be hell to deal with considering his reach.
This is why I say that alot more goes into this shit than just simple “size” or “skill”.
[quote]admbaum wrote:
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
[quote]Define “complete martial art”
Cant wait to hear this.[/quote]
Has a solid striking system and leg/ankle locks?
It’s p funny that I’ve tapped out BJJ guys with ankle tweaks, because apparently, when they roll, that’s not allowed…lol okay. So much for your super secret brazilian fighting secrets.[/quote]
Umm…I dont know where you get your information, but lower rank BJJ fighters cant use leg/ankle locks in tournaments. Thats true. But, there are tons of leg and ankle locks in the BJJ system. Off the top of my head, ankle Kimura, heel hooks, and knee bars not to mention the reaps you can use for take downs. They dont teach lower ranks these techniques because its really easy to seriously injure your training partners and you really need to know what you are doing. But keep talking out your ass. It’s funny. Theres no striking per se, I’ll give you that. If you are good enough, you wont need it. Thats the point. They dont call it the gentle art for nothing. I’d rather choke someone out than punch them in the face, but punching and kicking people in the face is a lot of fun.
[/quote]
Are you talking about the ring? Or in a bar? Because that purple belt is going to be a lot less effective in “the streetz” even though the gracies just keep on telling people otherwise.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]admbaum wrote:
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
[quote]Define “complete martial art”
Cant wait to hear this.[/quote]
Has a solid striking system and leg/ankle locks?
It’s p funny that I’ve tapped out BJJ guys with ankle tweaks, because apparently, when they roll, that’s not allowed…lol okay. So much for your super secret brazilian fighting secrets.[/quote]
Umm…I dont know where you get your information, but lower rank BJJ fighters cant use leg/ankle locks in tournaments. Thats true. But, there are tons of leg and ankle locks in the BJJ system. Off the top of my head, ankle Kimura, heel hooks, and knee bars not to mention the reaps you can use for take downs. They dont teach lower ranks these techniques because its really easy to seriously injure your training partners and you really need to know what you are doing. But keep talking out your ass. It’s funny. Theres no striking per se, I’ll give you that. If you are good enough, you wont need it. Thats the point. They dont call it the gentle art for nothing. I’d rather choke someone out than punch them in the face, but punching and kicking people in the face is a lot of fun.
[/quote]
Are you talking about the ring? Or in a bar? Because that purple belt is going to be a lot less effective in “the streetz” even though the gracies just keep on telling people otherwise. [/quote]
No doubt. In the streets, the last thing I’d want to do is take a fight to the ground. I’m not a purple…4 stripe whitey. Since the premise of the thread was UFC and MMA, I was thinking in terms of ring sports.
[quote]admbaum wrote:
No doubt. In the streets, the last thing I’d want to do is take a fight to the ground. I’m not a purple…4 stripe whitey. Since the premise of the thread was UFC and MMA, I was thinking in terms of ring sports. [/quote]
Ok got you. I’d agree with that.
Bar fights are nasty and scary, you never know what to expect. I’ve seen lots of them, playing in a band for the better part of my life. I’ve learned to dodge beer bottles and I’ve had to use my bass as a shield a few times. When men are drinking, they just can’t seem to ignore a problem. Usually, a man won’t start a fight with someone who’s physically intimidating, unless he’s really drunk or really stupid.
But once the fight breaks out, there’s no guarantee the big guy will win. Size doesn’t matter here, I think it’s speed. If the smaller guy can hit first and often with accuracy, he’s dangerous. All bets are off if the other guy has more buddies than you, who get involved and turn the thing into a brawl. Fighting skills are useless if you’re outnumbered. Also, there’s lots more people carrying guns now, who won’t hesitate to shoot first and ask questions later.
The best way to win a barfight is not to get involved in the first place. Save the skills for the ring.
“I don’t care how big you are - I train UFC”
America is lazy. This is the same line of BS that you get in gyms everywhere. Jump on this ball and squat light weight, it’ll make you huge. Train at ABC dojo and we’ll teach you how to seriously hurt guys that are 2-3 x bigger than you.
BS. Size (strength) does matter - skill second.
[quote]smokotime wrote:
You do raise an interesting point with the height vs. muscle mass though. I’d argue that both contribute as defining factors; it’d just depend on the fight as to how much.
When punches are being thrown, height is a very good thing. It’s a hell of a lot harder to hit someone in the face when they’re a foot taller, and you can’t get as much force into it. Conversely, it’s a lot easier for them to keep you at range and get power behind their punches. [/quote]
Well, the short guy can put more power closer, and i would argue would be harder to knock out because of how well he can protect his chin and generally just his head with shoulders and forearms.
Conversely, the shorter guy’s face shots would all pretty much be aimed for the chin, and thus put the bigger guy more at risk.
That being said, the bigger guy has better range and mass.
[quote]smokotime wrote:
Mass is a bit trickier. In the example you gave it’s implicit that the shorter guy is carrying a greater proportion of muscle and would be stronger as well, and that’s why he’s a greater chance to win. If I was to change the 6 foot 180 pound guy to a 6’8" 220 lb guy, the shorter guy would still be carrying a greater proportion of muscle and he’d still (presumably) be stronger, but I think you’d be less sure of the outcome. You can’t mess with physics, and even if someone is as weak as hell they aren’t going to be tossed around if they weigh 400lbs.
[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]smokotime wrote:Muscle is still quite important in the mass equation; all I’m trying do is illustrate that even in the absence of “more” muscle than the other man, extra mass can still disadvantage the lighter guy.
When someone has all the advantages of being bigger and stronger it isn’t to be treated with contempt as they are real, tangible advantages. I feel that someone weighing 150 who says they “Kick any big guys ass” since they do martial art X hasn’t had the basic experience of trying to move or getting hit by someone weighing 300, let alone full contact work.
Even the brutal approach talked about by FightingIrish shows some respect to the opponents ability, as it ends the fight as quickly as possible to reduce the risk to yourself. Talking shit like so many people seem to these days doesn’t show any respect at all.
[/quote]
Yes but fighting someone who is 300 pounds is the exception, not the rule.
How many people on this site weigh over 220? You have the few guys like prof x, holy fakeroni and co who are beyond that.
Go in society today…how many people weigh over 220? Even guys that are 6’3 hang around at 200 pounds. Now how many people actually train…and how many people train to fight?
I don’t think it’s impossible that a 5’10 150 pound guy who has fighting experience could destroy some 6’2 200 pound dude who doesn’t do shit.
If we are talking about two fighters, the bigger guy will usually win.
The postering shit has to do with the fact that if you seem intimidating, then people are less likely to do something. Being a shorter dude, you sometimes gotta play the aggressive card for fear of getting jumped by some taller faggots who think they can walk all over you.
The “napoleon complexe” is born from the fact that taller dudes pick on the shorter dudes.
And you find douchebags everywhere.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
Yes but fighting someone who is 300 pounds is the exception, not the rule.
How many people on this site weigh over 220? You have the few guys like prof x, holy fakeroni and co who are beyond that.
Go in society today…how many people weigh over 220?
I don’t think it’s impossible that a 5’10 150 pound guy who has fighting experience could destroy some 6’2 200 pound dude who doesn’t do shit.
[/quote]
300 pounds is an extreme, but I used it as an example so no-one can say “250 isn’t much, I can throw people around who weight that!” while weighing 200.
If you’re giving away I’m in no way huge, but I’m 6’ and 235. In my rugby days there was plenty of guys bigger and heavier than me, and until the higher levels most of them had never touched a weight.
I agree as a whole, most people aren’t that big, but there’s plenty out there in the 240-280 range. I also agree fighting experience is more important than size, but it still factors in to the outcome. Particularly if the guy with experience isn’t that good and the big guy is an athlete. I certainly don’t think it’s impossible for a 5’10 150 pound guy to destroy a 6’2" 200 pounder, I just take issue with the mentality that the 200 pounder doesn’t have an advantage. (Referring to the world in general, not any posts! )
100% agree. That’s the fallacy of the “I don’t care how big you are” argument, since it assumes that every single bigger guy out there doesn’t know how to fight.
The argument depends on the smaller guy being so much better than the big guy, and frankly Joe Average just isn’t that good.
You can throw the best flyweight in the world in the ring with a young George Foreman and see where the flyweights superior speed and fitness gets him. I’m betting on the canvas.
Again it’s an extreme example, but the point is that if a big guy knows his shit, it can go towards making up for any discrepancy in ability.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]smokotime wrote:
You do raise an interesting point with the height vs. muscle mass though. I’d argue that both contribute as defining factors; it’d just depend on the fight as to how much.
When punches are being thrown, height is a very good thing. It’s a hell of a lot harder to hit someone in the face when they’re a foot taller, and you can’t get as much force into it. Conversely, it’s a lot easier for them to keep you at range and get power behind their punches. [/quote]
Well, the short guy can put more power closer, and i would argue would be harder to knock out because of how well he can protect his chin and generally just his head with shoulders and forearms.
Conversely, the shorter guy’s face shots would all pretty much be aimed for the chin, and thus put the bigger guy more at risk.
That being said, the bigger guy has better range and mass.
[quote]smokotime wrote:
Mass is a bit trickier. In the example you gave it’s implicit that the shorter guy is carrying a greater proportion of muscle and would be stronger as well, and that’s why he’s a greater chance to win. If I was to change the 6 foot 180 pound guy to a 6’8" 220 lb guy, the shorter guy would still be carrying a greater proportion of muscle and he’d still (presumably) be stronger, but I think you’d be less sure of the outcome. You can’t mess with physics, and even if someone is as weak as hell they aren’t going to be tossed around if they weigh 400lbs.
[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]smokotime wrote:Muscle is still quite important in the mass equation; all I’m trying do is illustrate that even in the absence of “more” muscle than the other man, extra mass can still disadvantage the lighter guy.
When someone has all the advantages of being bigger and stronger it isn’t to be treated with contempt as they are real, tangible advantages. I feel that someone weighing 150 who says they “Kick any big guys ass” since they do martial art X hasn’t had the basic experience of trying to move or getting hit by someone weighing 300, let alone full contact work.
Even the brutal approach talked about by FightingIrish shows some respect to the opponents ability, as it ends the fight as quickly as possible to reduce the risk to yourself. Talking shit like so many people seem to these days doesn’t show any respect at all.
[/quote]
Yes but fighting someone who is 300 pounds is the exception, not the rule.
How many people on this site weigh over 220? You have the few guys like prof x, holy fakeroni and co who are beyond that.
Go in society today…how many people weigh over 220? Even guys that are 6’3 hang around at 200 pounds. Now how many people actually train…and how many people train to fight?
I don’t think it’s impossible that a 5’10 150 pound guy who has fighting experience could destroy some 6’2 200 pound dude who doesn’t do shit.
If we are talking about two fighters, the bigger guy will usually win.
The postering shit has to do with the fact that if you seem intimidating, then people are less likely to do something. Being a shorter dude, you sometimes gotta play the aggressive card for fear of getting jumped by some taller faggots who think they can walk all over you.
The “napoleon complexe” is born from the fact that taller dudes pick on the shorter dudes.
And you find douchebags everywhere.
[/quote]
I wholeheartedly agree with your last 2 paragraphs. Being 5’8" 170lbs of lard and completely unfit until I was 20 put this into perspective for me. I constantly got fucked with by taller people, I don’t give a damn how “humble” most taller folks say they are, it’s bullshit. They felt a need to “establish” their superiority by fucking with the smaller dudes and egging them on with a “betcha can’t take me down,” or a “lets see whatcha got” immediately followed by a slight slap on the head or some other form of “fucked with.” This shit pissed me off to no end but I still played the better man and walked away from the would be skirmishes because jailtime just wasn’t appealing to me. Now that I’m 220 and fill a large Tshirt good and proper, this doesn’t happen anymore and instead get asked by the same types of dickwads to “let me work out with you, show me the ropes man” who can’t keep up with me in the gym, slow my ass down, and quit within the week. I’m proud of feeling “intimidating” with absolutely no desire to be so, and allows me to live much more peacefully with people and I’ve noticed that it also provides a great deterrent for when I come home from deployments and meet the typical bargoing dickbag who won’t leave my fiance alone inbetween practicing her line dances. One recently said to her “can’t wait to meet your cheating fiance! he’s probably balls deep in some foreign bitch right now.” (obviously a ploy to get her to go home with him…idiot) and upon seeing me after purposefully sitting next to him at the bar(he’s a 6’4" skinny fuck) and me introducing myself as the “cheating fiance” and crushing his hand with a friendly handshake, decided to pack his shit, not bother to finish his beer and bounce. I had no desire to fight this guy, but instead just establish a presence. I’m sure his reaction wouldn’t have played the same if I looked like I did before I discovered lifting.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]admbaum wrote:
No doubt. In the streets, the last thing I’d want to do is take a fight to the ground. I’m not a purple…4 stripe whitey. Since the premise of the thread was UFC and MMA, I was thinking in terms of ring sports. [/quote]
Ok got you. I’d agree with that. [/quote]
The Gracies seem to miss out on the " his buddies stomping the crap out of you thing". Hell , his girl could stomp the crap out of you on the ground.
Hahaha this is a funny topic so I thought I’d register and chime in. We can scientifically break every scenario down like ya’ll are doing and 99% of you all make good points.
I do agree that the “crazier nothing to lose guy who escalates it to the first punch death blow” type of thing will usually win a street fight.
But on the other hand the OP is correct. All training, extra buddies, weapons, athleticism aside… strength is a huge factor. In fact this is one reason I have worked out on and off over the years… being stronger makes me feel safer! (and no I’m not a big guy… 5’10" 199 lb)
And yes, while I have met plenty of “unassuming guys” I wouldn’t want to mess with, there is no substitute for strength. I know a guy at my gym who’s about 5’6"-5’7" and i’ve seen him stand on a scale and the # said 257 lbs. I’ve seen him bench 500 lbs. I’ve seen him squat 500 lbs (going past parrallel and nearly touching his booty to the ground). I’ve seen him kick over his head (had great flexibility). Honestly, unless you are a pro-fighter you wouldn’t stand a chance against this guy. Just waaaay too strong! I’ve known alot of “tough guys” too from growing up in the country! 
This is also supported by the show “bully beatdown” which I’m sure everyone here has seen. All the bullies usually pick on the wimpiest guys. Most of them drop like a sack of potatoes when put against a “real fighter.” But the ones to actually hold their own for a while and even survive rounds are the legit muscle dudes! Not the guys who have benched 300 lb on creatine in the past and now are just a potbellied bully!! Nope I’m talking the guys who work out alot and are very serious about working out. Not only is their muscle mass greater (so they can take a shot), it’s hard to submit someone in grappling who is that strong unless you are black belt (with real full contact XP)… not to mention that their cardio is surprisingly good because lifting does build endurance (it raises your heart rate substantially)…
My 2 cents folks!
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]JZT wrote:
I know I’ll get flamed for this, but I’ll try to explain it later on: The bigger guy wins 90% of the time, period. Why? Because he’s stronger, which is a huge factor. Now, I’m not a bully of any sort, I’ve only gotten in one fight in all my life, but this is just getting so annoying. [/quote]
You’ll get flamed because you’re dead wrong.
Size has little to do with a fight- the factor that wins fights in the street (NOT in the ring) is the person who is willing go to immediately go to the highest levels of violence and use overwhelming force. This has nothing to do with size- it’s a matter of mindset and preparedeness coupled with basic skills training.
Look up a guy like Kelly Mccann or Marc Macyoung. Not huge guys, but ones who have seen the elephant. I wouldn’t want to fuck with’em.
And you’re talking about regular kids who are lying about training in MMA or boxing or whatever- but realize that if you’re actually fighting a practiced boxer, Mixed Martial Artist, whatever, you’re probably going to lose and lose quickly, even if you’re much larger.
And when you take into account weapons and numbers, as most fights or crimes do, you have an even bigger difference.
[/quote]
I wouldnt say size or especially strength makes no difference at all, because the bigger, stronger fighter usually wins. If the guy is smaller, then he may have to make up for it by having superior strength and/or skill. I.E. a 170 pound man that bench presses 365 pounds fighting a 230 pound man that benches 250 pounds may have a considerable edge in strength. All else being equal, it may be hard to predict who might win.
And keep in mind, most ppl arent boxers or mma fighters. So you cant use them as representative of how a typical fight might go.
[quote]Bmanxer wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with your last 2 paragraphs. Being 5’8" 170lbs of lard and completely unfit until I was 20 put this into perspective for me. I constantly got fucked with by taller people, I don’t give a damn how “humble” most taller folks say they are, it’s bullshit. They felt a need to “establish” their superiority by fucking with the smaller dudes and egging them on with a “betcha can’t take me down,” or a “lets see whatcha got” immediately followed by a slight slap on the head or some other form of “fucked with.” This shit pissed me off to no end but I still played the better man and walked away from the would be skirmishes because jailtime just wasn’t appealing to me. [/quote]
Absolutely agree with this. I grew up fighting constantly, and it was because my size led to me being picked on when I was a kid.
So the taller guys might be humble and mature and nice now- but you weren’t when you were 13. The experiences people have when they’re kids affects them a lot- and I learned to never back down, and not take shit.
It’s nice that smaller guys are expected to just “turn off” this ingrained aggressiveness just because the taller guys grew up and stopped being cocksuckers- but it doesn’t work like that, now does it?
[quote]clip11 wrote:
I wouldnt say size or especially strength makes no difference at all, because the bigger, stronger fighter usually wins. If the guy is smaller, then he may have to make up for it by having superior strength and/or skill. I.E. a 170 pound man that bench presses 365 pounds fighting a 230 pound man that benches 250 pounds may have a considerable edge in strength. All else being equal, it may be hard to predict who might win.
And keep in mind, most ppl arent boxers or mma fighters. So you cant use them as representative of how a typical fight might go.[/quote]
No one is doing that- we’re not talking boxers or MMA fighters. Of course in those situations that’s true, that’s why they have weight classes.
But realize that me, at 5’7", grabbing a knife and being willing to use it, not only evens the fight against a 6’2 225 lb. linebacker- it stacks the deck in my favor.
A gun and some distance stacks it even more; me hiding in the shadows outside your house with a shotgun waiting for you to get home nearly assures that I will win.
This is why street violence is in no way akin to sport fighting.
See, people figured this out when they were hunting mastodons in the last ice age. You can fight and hit and whatever, but that thing is too fucking big. All it takes is witnessing the consequences of that matchup once for people to never want to repeat it- so they decide instead to make weapons, set traps, and ambush the fucker.
This is no different from what I’m talking about.