I Deleted the Amazing New Supplement Thread--TC

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Hey, now it’s a 2-post-wonder replacing the 4-post sock puppet!

And amazingly, he too knows all about how the thread was (supposedly) moderated.

I am sure there are members here who remember how it actually went: perhaps someone can post on it.

(I mean a real member, not a 2-post tool.)[/quote]

if you were so confident you wouldn’t use the oldest internet forum argument in history to try and make a scientific defense of your claims.

in case you dont get it, calling someone a 2-post tool does nothing but crush your own credibility which at this point is seriously lacking considering you are the ones making absolutely absurd claims. its like saying someone isnt level-5. oh no, they dont know what they are talking about because they havent spent a high enough % of their earnings on Biotest supps.

now in case this is still not getting through your thick skull i’ll counter argue your noob internet forum argument with another noob internet forum argument: “maybe they only have 2 posts because they have a LIFE and are outside DOING THINGS instead of pimping products on tnation” or even better:“maybe they go to a forum that doesn’t censor posts in debates”

it works both ways. when you want to be taken seriously as something more than a marketer try and addressing the actual issues presented in the article, not just saying “wait to buy our products then you’ll see” well of course we’ll see that you are lying then instead of you just admitting it now. the only difference is that the former will make your pockets a lot fatter than the latter.

and i can almost guarantee censorship of this post, humor me and let it through

62

[quote]conorh wrote:
OrangeCrush wrote:
He surely seems to “know” you, Bill.

He rips you quite a bit on other websites and brags about how he “schooled you” in the thread you mentioned…I didn’t read any of it, so the only knowledge I have is from him mentioning it in other places. Aragon regularly gets touted by many strength coaches as knowing his stuff and being a stickler for reviewing research and placing it in the proper context so that it can be applied to real-life situations. But for someone who is touted for taking a levelheaded approach to nutrition and research, he gets remarkably testy in his forum replies, which often reek of as much smugness as purported common sense.

And I don’t know you from a hole in the wall, but you seem to be a guy who knows his stuff too, so I find it hard to fathom that Aragon could school you in a debate as he regularly claims to have done.

I’ve been around research and to compare what you can get the average college aged POS to do in the gym to what I do is laughable. I love science, I even enjoy research, but come on. How many of these research subjects can’t even do a pullup.

There’s a reason we don’t do academic research with actual successful hard-training lifters: they already know what works.

I just add this because I like Aragorn’s research reviews but to use published research to try to refute these claims on the surface seems pointless to me.
[/quote]

Ummm… I’m NOT the guy fighting with Bill on this one. The person in question is Alan ARAGON (no “r”). Thanks, don’t want to be confused for him!

63

If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :frowning:

End of subject. Anyone who is so lacking upstairs as to buy Aragon’s claim that taking milk and then adding vast amounts of HFCS to it – as the makers of chocolate milk do – yields a superior post-workout sole nutrition source is, we can pretty confidently conclude, incapable of understanding any information provided that that is not so. Therefore I would be wasting words arguing it again. Aragon was the only person in that thread that believed his statements on chocolate milk. I doubt anyone else here, except Aragon’s other personalities of course, seriously gives any credit to Aragon’s claim. The subject is utterly useless noise. Finis.

64

[quote]Tesauro wrote:

Let me sum this up for you:

Proof means nothing; trust me, and you can be superhuman too, bro. Buy my expensive shit, it’s better than drugs. And if it doesn’t work, you’re just not trying hard enough; buy more.

Also, I think everyone here should take note that CT currently weighs far more than any natural pro in the history of bodybuilding.[/quote]

I love guys like you, let me sum up for you why:

  1. Use of the word “bro” as a derogatory term. Mainly because you think that someone doesn’t read 6,000 studies and base their training around skinny guys in lab coats testing untrained individuals.

  2. You assume everyone else is a “sheep” and “nuthugger” when you are too blind to see you are a sheep, you just have a different Shepard than those you are here to bash. And you also ignore the vets that post here obviously. But that leads me to:

  3. You will call me a “bro” and act all smug and superior because I won’t listen to you, or your studies unless you have reached my goal, or trained people that have. Now when I ask you for stats your response will be something along the lines of: “LMAO that is the epitome of broscience, ha ha you don’t even get it. What does my size or strength have to do with my ability to reason and have a quality diet and training program.” The silly part is, I’m sure you are 180lbs at 6’0" and have a whole host of excuses of why you “don’t want” to look like a bodybuilder. It can’t have anything to do with the fact you ignore what huge people say in favor of “science” could it?

DISCLAIMER: I have nothing against science or it’s application to BB’ing. Just making a point.

  1. You made the obligatory “he must use steroids” attack. You read Casey Butts on the regular don’t you?

Open your mind dude.

65

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :([/quote]

I’m not Alan Aragon. I respect him, and, frankly, think that people like him and Lyle set an excellent example for others who want to succeed in this business while maintaining their integrity.

66

[quote]John Blackthorne wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Hey, now it’s a 2-post-wonder replacing the 4-post sock puppet!

And amazingly, he too knows all about how the thread was (supposedly) moderated.

I am sure there are members here who remember how it actually went: perhaps someone can post on it.

(I mean a real member, not a 2-post tool.)

That’s your response? An ad hominem?

What does my post count have to do with the substance of my posts?

I’m beginning to think that your T-Nation post count and level are inversely related to your knowledge of nutrition. [/quote]

Before you posted in this thread, you had one other post that snidely called into question CT’s theory on peri-workout nutrition in general, the V-Diet, and an as yet unreleased program. All at the same time.

Leaving aside the fact that I don’t particularly like the V-Diet, that is a colossally bad way to introduce yourself. You basically gave the impression you came on this site simply to bash this site…which it turns out you are doing. I would not give you any respect either frankly. You have not posted any useful information, knowledge, or training advice. At all.

On the other hand, I know Bill’s credentials, I’ve read his scholarly research publications, and I know that most of his advice is sound, or at least grounded in sound theory.

67

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :([/quote]

these aren’t created personalities, they are all people from another forum that actually allows for debate and when you ignore the issue and make bullshit arguments to try and defer any actual evidence to back your claims (we are going on a marketers word and a 30 second video clip of CT doing some lifting here) you are gonna create a shitstorm, especially when others are providing scientific evidence as to why your claims are bunk.

humor me and get scientific w/ regards to alan’s article, mr. scientist.

68

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Tesauro wrote:

Let me sum this up for you:

Proof means nothing; trust me, and you can be superhuman too, bro. Buy my expensive shit, it’s better than drugs. And if it doesn’t work, you’re just not trying hard enough; buy more.

Also, I think everyone here should take note that CT currently weighs far more than any natural pro in the history of bodybuilding.

I love guys like you, let me sum up for you why:

  1. Use of the word “bro” as a derogatory term. Mainly because you think that someone doesn’t read 6,000 studies and base their training around skinny guys in lab coats testing untrained individuals.

  2. You assume everyone else is a “sheep” and “nuthugger” when you are too blind to see you are a sheep, you just have a different Shepard than those you are here to bash. And you also ignore the vets that post here obviously. But that leads me to:

  3. You will call me a “bro” and act all smug and superior because I won’t listen to you, or your studies unless you have reached my goal, or trained people that have. Now when I ask you for stats your response will be something along the lines of: “LMAO that is the epitome of broscience, ha ha you don’t even get it. What does my size or strength have to do with my ability to reason and have a quality diet and training program.” The silly part is, I’m sure you are 180lbs at 6’0" and have a whole host of excuses of why you “don’t want” to look like a bodybuilder. It can’t have anything to do with the fact you ignore what huge people say in favor of “science” could it?

DISCLAIMER: I have nothing against science or it’s application to BB’ing. Just making a point.

  1. You made the obligatory “he must use steroids” attack. You read Casey Butts on the regular don’t you?

Open your mind dude. [/quote]

How the living hell does Casey Buttt’s name come up so much? People are actually quoting this guy now?

WTF?

69

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Tesauro wrote:

Let me sum this up for you:

Proof means nothing; trust me, and you can be superhuman too, bro. Buy my expensive shit, it’s better than drugs. And if it doesn’t work, you’re just not trying hard enough; buy more.

Also, I think everyone here should take note that CT currently weighs far more than any natural pro in the history of bodybuilding.

This from the guy who thinks it’s impossible for any natural male trainee to weigh over 200 lbs lean body mass? Yeah…that’s credible. I looked through your posting history just to see if there was an inkling of reasoned thought behind your attack, but no. Just more retard.

[/quote]

Sorry to burst your bubble. Don’t take my word for it, I’m 85% retard, try doing a web search on natural bodybuilder lean mass limits.

70

[quote]bomber221 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :frowning:

these aren’t created personalities, they are all people from another forum that actually allows for debate and when you ignore the issue and make bullshit arguments to try and defer any actual evidence to back your claims (we are going on a marketers word and a 30 second video clip of CT doing some lifting here) you are gonna create a shitstorm, especially when others are providing scientific evidence as to why your claims are bunk.

humor me and get scientific w/ regards to alan’s article, mr. scientist.

[/quote]

I personally want to see pics of all of the “debate team”.

71

[quote]bomber221 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :frowning:

these aren’t created personalities, they are all people from another forum that actually allows for debate and when you ignore the issue and make bullshit arguments to try and defer any actual evidence to back your claims (we are going on a marketers word and a 30 second video clip of CT doing some lifting here) you are gonna create a shitstorm, especially when others are providing scientific evidence as to why your claims are bunk.

humor me and get scientific w/ regards to alan’s article, mr. scientist.

[/quote]

Wow, how do supposed real people that are from another forum have this knowledge of how a thread was moderated here nearly a year ago?

Unless they are tools doing the work of a person who participated in that thread and now has his version of it, or are sock puppets of that same person.

Those are the only explanations. Aragon is the source for these claims on how this thread was moderated – pretending that he didn’t get to have his say at the time, though in fact he did and apparently the resulting loss in debate has driven him rather bonkers – and these persons are his tools (other individuals getting their dictation from him) or sock puppets. Genuine other people on other forums would not independently have this “information” even if it were true, which it is not.

End of that second subject as well.

72

[quote]Tesauro wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Tesauro wrote:

Let me sum this up for you:

Proof means nothing; trust me, and you can be superhuman too, bro. Buy my expensive shit, it’s better than drugs. And if it doesn’t work, you’re just not trying hard enough; buy more.

Also, I think everyone here should take note that CT currently weighs far more than any natural pro in the history of bodybuilding.

This from the guy who thinks it’s impossible for any natural male trainee to weigh over 200 lbs lean body mass? Yeah…that’s credible. I looked through your posting history just to see if there was an inkling of reasoned thought behind your attack, but no. Just more retard.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Don’t take my word for it, I’m 85% retard, try doing a web search on natural bodybuilder lean mass limits.[/quote]

You’re serious? You have proven what limits all humans are held under in terms of lean muscle mass gained naturally? When was this? And did they test everybody?

73

[quote]Professor X wrote:
bomber221 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :frowning:

these aren’t created personalities, they are all people from another forum that actually allows for debate and when you ignore the issue and make bullshit arguments to try and defer any actual evidence to back your claims (we are going on a marketers word and a 30 second video clip of CT doing some lifting here) you are gonna create a shitstorm, especially when others are providing scientific evidence as to why your claims are bunk.

humor me and get scientific w/ regards to alan’s article, mr. scientist.

I personally want to see pics of all of the “debate team”.
[/quote]

how about you put up video of you ATG squatting more than an 85kg chinese olympian, because i doubt you can at your buffest mr. “if your not 300lbs you aren’t worthy of speaking to me”

keep up the good arguments… christ how bad were you picked on as a child

74

[quote]bomber221 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
bomber221 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :frowning:

these aren’t created personalities, they are all people from another forum that actually allows for debate and when you ignore the issue and make bullshit arguments to try and defer any actual evidence to back your claims (we are going on a marketers word and a 30 second video clip of CT doing some lifting here) you are gonna create a shitstorm, especially when others are providing scientific evidence as to why your claims are bunk.

humor me and get scientific w/ regards to alan’s article, mr. scientist.

I personally want to see pics of all of the “debate team”.

how about you put up video of you ATG squatting more than an 85kg chinese olympian, because i doubt you can at your buffest mr. “if your not 300lbs you aren’t worthy of speaking to me”

keep up the good arguments… christ how bad were you picked on as a child
[/quote]

So, your goal isn’t bodybuilding? If it isn’t, then what stake to you have in this fight?

Weighing 300lbs has nothing to do with my view. I just know for a fact some of the loudest critics rushing to tell people what their limits are happen to be very unimpressive physically or even through their apparent genetic ability.

This was not meant as an insult even though you seem quick to make this a fight.

75

[quote]Professor X wrote:

In the end, I fault whoever let this site get overrun by non-serious lifters who brag on their functionality in spite of their lack of development. If there were more serious lifters here, this would not be a discussion.[/quote]

There are plenty of serious jacked guys, like my roommate, who lurk her and don’t post. I know he’s turned off by the tone of some of the recent articles (“Oh my gawd, I just started lifting weights” and “Pseudosciencey bullshit” in his words) and by the huge population of mediocre pussies that post.

76

[quote]Professor X wrote:
bomber221 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :frowning:

these aren’t created personalities, they are all people from another forum that actually allows for debate and when you ignore the issue and make bullshit arguments to try and defer any actual evidence to back your claims (we are going on a marketers word and a 30 second video clip of CT doing some lifting here) you are gonna create a shitstorm, especially when others are providing scientific evidence as to why your claims are bunk.

humor me and get scientific w/ regards to alan’s article, mr. scientist.

I personally want to see pics of all of the “debate team”.
[/quote]

Thats odd. I would rather see pics of the people the “debate team” has trained.

77

[quote]conorh wrote:
Professor X wrote:

In the end, I fault whoever let this site get overrun by non-serious lifters who brag on their functionality in spite of their lack of development. If there were more serious lifters here, this would not be a discussion.

There are plenty of serious jacked guys, like my roommate, who lurk her and don’t post. I know he’s turned off by the tone of some of the recent articles (“Oh my gawd, I just started lifting weights” and “Pseudosciencey bullshit” in his words) and by the huge population of mediocre pussies that post.[/quote]

I agree. I just had one of the guys I used to train with in Florida log in but he won’t post because of the crap he sees on the forum. He’s in better shape than nearly all of the people here going on and on about how much scientific research they have.

It never fails, the guys who truly make jaws drop are NOT the type who act like a scientific study needs to be conducted before they hit the gym a certain way.

If people had to show their own progress before posting, there would be like 23 threads in this forum.

78

[quote]bomber221 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
bomber221 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
If anyone did not get my point on the post count, it was that the post count – particularly in combination with the claims of intimate familiarity with how an obscure thread went nearly a year ago and even on supposed details of moderation – combined with their utter suckup-ness to Alan Aragon is consistent with their being sock puppets.

Meaning, created personalities so that a person has someone, or more than one person, who agrees with him.

This guy is mental, as personal opinion. I immediately saw before that he was an idiot, but didn’t grasp quite how deep the problems must go. :frowning:

these aren’t created personalities, they are all people from another forum that actually allows for debate and when you ignore the issue and make bullshit arguments to try and defer any actual evidence to back your claims (we are going on a marketers word and a 30 second video clip of CT doing some lifting here) you are gonna create a shitstorm, especially when others are providing scientific evidence as to why your claims are bunk.

humor me and get scientific w/ regards to alan’s article, mr. scientist.

I personally want to see pics of all of the “debate team”.

how about you put up video of you ATG squatting more than an 85kg chinese olympian, because i doubt you can at your buffest mr. “if your not 300lbs you aren’t worthy of speaking to me”

keep up the good arguments… christ how bad were you picked on as a child
[/quote]

You’re an 85kg Chinese Olympian? Cool. Where can I find you on Youtube?

79

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It never fails, the guys who truly make jaws drop are NOT the type who act like a scientific study needs to be conducted before they hit the gym a certain way.
[/quote]

A perhaps seemingly-ironic thing (but not actually) is that I am a scientist, yet I’m quite sure that in 4000 posts – or a lot more if counting before 2003 – a person could not find a single one wherein I say, “Train this way because of” some study, or “This training method is better because of” some study, etc.

When people want to know about what mechanisms a drug or supplement may work by, that is a different matter, but citing studies on training is just not getting it.

80

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Tesauro wrote:

Let me sum this up for you:

Proof means nothing; trust me, and you can be superhuman too, bro. Buy my expensive shit, it’s better than drugs. And if it doesn’t work, you’re just not trying hard enough; buy more.

Also, I think everyone here should take note that CT currently weighs far more than any natural pro in the history of bodybuilding.

I love guys like you, let me sum up for you why:

  1. Use of the word “bro” as a derogatory term. Mainly because you think that someone doesn’t read 6,000 studies and base their training around skinny guys in lab coats testing untrained individuals.

  2. You assume everyone else is a “sheep” and “nuthugger” when you are too blind to see you are a sheep, you just have a different Shepard than those you are here to bash. And you also ignore the vets that post here obviously. But that leads me to:

  3. You will call me a “bro” and act all smug and superior because I won’t listen to you, or your studies unless you have reached my goal, or trained people that have. Now when I ask you for stats your response will be something along the lines of: “LMAO that is the epitome of broscience, ha ha you don’t even get it. What does my size or strength have to do with my ability to reason and have a quality diet and training program.” The silly part is, I’m sure you are 180lbs at 6’0" and have a whole host of excuses of why you “don’t want” to look like a bodybuilder. It can’t have anything to do with the fact you ignore what huge people say in favor of “science” could it?

DISCLAIMER: I have nothing against science or it’s application to BB’ing. Just making a point.

  1. You made the obligatory “he must use steroids” attack. You read Casey Butts on the regular don’t you?

Open your mind dude. [/quote]

If the guys who are determined to have the largest natural physiques in the world (pro BB’ers) can’t get near CT’s LBM level, something is clearly fishy.

I really can’t be bothered to respond to the rest of your garbage, because you’re implying that you somehow know my motivation.

There’s lots of “vets” on this site have been misled into believing that if they eat tons, get a huge bicep measurement, and workout hard, they’ll be super human. You need drugs to be super human. Remember caveman? That’s a drug fueled physique, and it’s what many of us aspire to. That’s just reality.