Human Embryos in Stem Cell Research: Yes or No?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]pgtips wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I think one of the great misconceptions is the whole “taking a human embryo” thing. They’re not–from what I’ve read–taking a human embryo that’s supposed to enter gestation. During artificial insemination, multiple inseminations are attempted but only one is kept. The rest are kept in deep freeze (or whatever the term is). THESE are typically discarded–I assume after the female has had a successful birth–but some are donated to stem cell research. This means that these embryos would’ve been destroyed anyway, because that’s how it typically works in fertility clinics. The benefit is that they go to science so that stem cells can be derived from them. You’re not “taking a life.” More righty BS.

apbt55:

Do you recall what the term is for a stem cell that can convert to any cell vs. ones that have a more narrow range (if it’s even a range) of what they can convert to?

From what I read, the embryonic stem cells are the most manipulitable (I can’t write today, but you know what I mean), whereas adult stem cells (I think we all carry stem cells, even as adults) are less likely to be morphed into specific cell types, and are therefore less useful.

Please correct me if I’m wrong?[/quote]

Exactly my point. They are going to be discarded. Why not put them to a good use?

Yes, from what I know, embryonic stem cells are pluripotent - they can potentialy become any cell in the body. Adult stem cells have a narrower range thus making them less usefull (they are very usefull though)[/quote]

Do you not see how you’ve detoured around your moral objection to creating embryos for stem cell research? “Oh yeah, that’s horrible. Don’t get me wrong, I would never to agree to something as monstrous as that. So let’s create them for other reasons, where most will be destroyed by being discarded or used for stem cell research.” Basically…Why did you even bother objecting to their creation solely for stem cell research? The question is, if it’s monstrous, why are we doing it all?
[/quote]

This is why I’m happy I asked this on a forum. This isnt something to talk about in normal social circumstances - a bit too deep for a light chit chat.

I like it because your always going to get different points of view. And it has knocked the wind out of my sails and made me question my opinion.

You highlighting that I was/am subconsciusly detouring has actualy made me stop to think. I am skirting round the fact. because the point is. I actualy dont know if a Human Embryo should be considered a Human Being or not. My first thoughts are a big NO, but thats because I struggle to percieve a blob of cells to be human. I consider something with a brain and semi human features to be human. I’d consider a fetus Human, because I can identify it as a human. But as has been said, an embryo has Human DNA, so therefore it is human. it makes for a definite mind-fuck!

But I do know that something that could help people should be used and if an embryo is going to be discarded it should be used. I still stand by it. even if it is monstrous.

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[quote]pgtips wrote:

This is why I’m happy I asked this on a forum. This isnt something to talk about in normal social circumstances - a bit too deep for a light chit chat.

I like it because your always going to get different points of view. And it has knocked the wind out of my sails and made me question my opinion.

You highlighting that I was/am subconsciusly detouring has actualy made me stop to think. I am skirting round the fact. because the point is. I actualy dont know if a Human Embryo should be considered a Human Being or not. My first thoughts are a big NO, but thats because I struggle to percieve a blob of cells to be human. I consider something with a brain and semi human features to be human. I’d consider a fetus Human, because I can identify it as a human. But as has been said, an embryo has Human DNA, so therefore it is human. it makes for a definite mind-fuck!

But I do know that something that could help people should be used and if an embryo is going to be discarded it should be used. I still stand by it. even if it is monstrous.

[/quote]

Just be prepared for the objections you’re seeing here. The number one thing, as you just mentioned, make a decision–is the embryo an individual life? Yes, I am biased, but I would say that you should accept that the destruction of an embryo is the destruction of a human life. If you don’t make this concession you’ll face objections about the embryo being an individual (own diploid compliment of dna, own life cycle) human (DNA check, same organism as parent) life (organism). Individual human life. That is the only honest position to take, and save you time trying to defend a falsehood. The biological ‘human life’ argument is made in a short paragraph. I just made it in one sentence, basically. Your argument will have to deal with the valuation of human life. If and when it can valued and devalued.

If you’re going make your argument then you really should argue for the direct creation of embryos for stem cell research and procedures, also. Most likely your opponents will inquire about your position regarding the supply of embryos for research. You yourself will instill moral doubt into your audience by ensuring them you wouldn’t support embryonic creation and ‘inventorying,’ only supporting their ‘harvest’ from indirect sources. It’s a bit of moral self-deception. Your audience is going to ask themselves, “wait, is he morally conflicted? Why shouldn’t I be, then?”

There is a larger cultural/moral issue you might need to deal with. The societal change of how we’ll come to view the worth of human lives. What are we willing to do, to become, in the quest to alleviate suffering and mortality? New human life as medical consumer good. Cannibalization/vampirism to achieve youth, health, and even pushing back death in our old age.

The traditional morality (already greatly decayed with abortion) valued human life, held it up from it’s very creation. It gave human life sacred, inalienable rights. We were to accept our own suffering and our own deaths never harming the weak and innocent for our benefit. Do we we often fail to live up to that morality? Absolutely.

But, now we’re arguing to narrow the traditional moral view of human life. All, in order to relieve our own suffering and to even push back our own deaths. If, and when it’s accepted in the great bulk of humanity, what next? How will we view even each other? Our worth? Where does it all go? How much more, in our devalued state, will we begin to fail to live up to that traditional morality? Humanity doesn’t end here. What of the future? What we do will inform them of who and what they–and others around them–are. In that state, where will they go next?

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[quote]pgtips wrote:
I’m gathering information for my next assignment which is a debate, and I don’t want all of the information to come from articles.

It would be a GREAT help if anyone would be willing to state whether they

A - Agree

or

B - Disagree.

And then explain why.

Thanks

[/quote]
Well, I am going to be following this thread for kicks. I would chime in, but your question is too broadly worded. The question I have for you is what kind of human embryonic stem cells are we talking about here? Because there are differences. Major differences.

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Can I repeat what you just said to me? “Adult stem cells are more useful and have more potential than was” originally thought.

All the potential in the world means nothing when the technology has gone no where. Potential means zero when compared to results. That would be like talking about the potential of a sports team after the season is past.

How are embryo’s NOT whole individuals from the moment of conception?

[quote]pgtips wrote:
Ok, I’m not denying adult stem cells are usefull and have more ptential than was earlier aknowleged.

But from what I have read, embryonic stem cells have so much more potential as they are pluripotent (They have the potential to turn into any cell in our body) whereas adult stem cells are much more limited. If I’m wrong please correct me, because I don’t allude to having in depth knowlege on this subject. but from the research and reading I have done I have found out that embryonic stem cells have ALOT more potential.

Even if embryos are to be considered people (which I still disagree with) the chance to use discsarded embryos should be jumped at. The Ethical problem for me would be when embryos are created purely for the harvest of stem cells.[/quote]