Hey all, does anyone know of a good HRT doc for females? Someone of the caliber of a Dr. Crisler for women? Someone preferably in New England - though longer travel is okay.
Now that I’m getting tuned up, my girlfriend is now…ummm…interested in looking into this.
Some reading would be in order. Women have to be educated and struggle to find a doc who will do the right things. HRT for women, especially women who are still cycling is very difficult. Cookie cutter will not work. Progestins and fake estrogens will not do. Really need transdermal bio-identical estradiol, estriol and progesterone.
Women have to find what levels and monthly variations work. And T is needed. As estrogens are added, the HPOA reduces LH and testosterone levels drop. First course of action is to start using OTC progesterone cream to replace levels that start to drop after the early thirties creating estrogen dominance that leads to breast tenderness, endrometrial overgrowth, fibroids, ovarian cysts, PMS and cancers.
If a women does not know what she needs, her chances of getting proper treatment is poor.
And, the best start remains phoning local or regional compounding pharmacies, explaining what you are seeking and getting referrals to docs who take insurance.
You both need to read this cover to cover then reread sections specific to her situation.
Lab work needs to be done, but doses cannot be based on lab numbers as body types and individual needs are so variable. If she has dark hairs on her forearms and lip, then she is a high testosterone woman who will really not do well as she looses T levels. If she is shorter and full breasted, she is a women who has had higher estrogen levels when younger and will need those levels restored. A taller thin woman with small breasts never had high estrogen levels and will need less agressive E restoration.
Replacing estrogens without progesterone is very dangerous.
I have been trying to manipulate my endocrine system for a year now.
When I got to 14% I had tremendous difficulty getting my period - when it did finally break it was almost non existent.
I then had the worst estrogen rebound of my menstruating history.
I was supplementing with progesterone cream, using HGH and on a low carb high fat high protein diet.
Having said that, I had this problem before when I was not training and not supplementing with anything and just got to very low BF levels.
I just want your girlfriend to be aware that the estrogen cycle is very resilient in my experience, and trying to manipulate it can cause really strong rebounds.
It may not be a breeze should she try and do this. The more informed both of you are the better.
@ KSman - your knowledge base always amazes me! You’ve given us quite a bit to think about. So thanks so much for that.
Reiss has been mentioned a number of times to me; now that you’re confirming, we’ve just ordered his books. We’ll try to educate ourselves as much as possible; as well as find the best doctor for her. I don’t know if Reiss still takes patients, but we’ll look into that. We’re also waiting on an announcement (due any time now) from Dr. Crisler regarding a doctor who will be working with him and taking female patients. I FULLY TRUST the judgement of Dr. Crisler - so maybe that will work out. Anyway, those are two good options - involving travel, but that’s okay. (Hell, judging by how I’ve been feeling for the past few months (4th month of TRT), I’d walk to the ends of the earth to find a doctor who knows his/her stuff!)
I hope all is well with you. Thanks for all the great info - and your encouragement a while back.
@Alpha F - hey there! Thanks for the warning - yes, HRT is very tricky stuff; especially in women. Are you working with a doctor? It sounds like you were doing this for competition purposes? Yes?
Maybe this thread can be the start of a conversation; I haven’t seen much in the way of HRT for women on this board.
Anyway, I hope things are going well now. And be careful! - we only get one endocrine system (as far as we know…heh :))
Cheers, ~katz
hCG diet: If guys take hCG, their testes can go into high gear if LH was low and the testes are still LH responsive. There is every reason to expect the hormone output levels of the ovaries to jump with hCG. I would love to learn more what the effects of hCG are on cycling women. hCG diet might also promote multiple births.
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
@Alpha F - hey there! Thanks for the warning - yes, HRT is very tricky stuff; especially in women. Are you working with a doctor? [/quote]
Hi, no I have been reading and doing my own research. Check the Mayo Clinic as well.[quote]
It sounds like you were doing this for competition purposes? Yes? [/quote]
No. I used to compete at elite level swimming as a teenager but I do not compete in BB. I love training and was just curious as to whether I could reduce or eliminate my periods so that it wouldn’t slow me down for training.[quote]
Maybe this thread can be the start of a conversation; I haven’t seen much in the way of HRT for women on this board. [/quote]
It is a shame indeed. These ladies here seem to know a lot about it. Can’t tell what is fact or fiction and bear in mind they are heavy steroid users:
Women and Testosterone - Page 2 [quote]
Anyway, I hope things are going well now. And be careful! - we only get one endocrine system (as far as we know…heh :))[/quote]
Thanks. The symptoms are subsiding. My tests also revealed a stressed liver from excess protein also and being low in EFA. I was just upping the fish oil due to joint pain ( elbow ) and neglected the the EFA. Tell her she needs to be on the ball with all the Oils!
Alpha F - You can’t do much with isolated supplements as all aspects of well-being are interdependent. This is why I query iodine intake for thyroid function and vit-D3 intake for general vitality and immune function. If total cholesterol is below 180 levels of steroid hormones can suffer. If DHEA is low from typical age related decline, steroid hormones can suffer.
The generation of estrogen and testosterone in the adrenals is open loop and more DHEA will increase these other hormones. This can increase T and for women, this can make a significant difference. For men the change is relatively insignificant. DHEA can give some women oily skin and acne… a sure sign of increased testosterone. Progesterone also drops with age as described above. This can cause problems with the production of cortisol in typically overstressed aging adrenals.
Restoring progesterone levels with OTC progesterone cream supports adrenal function [as does DHEA] while protecting women from the damage of unopposed estrogen.
All steroid hormones are transported into the nuclei of the cells where gene expression is changed. The danger of fake estrogens and progestins [fake progesterone] is that these xeno molecules are doing affecting gene expression in unintended ways. Progesterone is cardio-protective. Progestins are not. Hence the warnings about blood clots, strokes and heart attacks with oral birth control pills etc.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Alpha F - You can’t do much with isolated supplements as all aspects of well-being are interdependent. This is why I query iodine intake for thyroid function and vit-D3 intake for general vitality and immune function. If total cholesterol is below 180 levels of steroid hormones can suffer. If DHEA is low from typical age related decline, steroid hormones can suffer.
The generation of estrogen and testosterone in the adrenals is open loop and more DHEA will increase these other hormones. This can increase T and for women, this can make a significant difference. For men the change is relatively insignificant. DHEA can give some women oily skin and acne… a sure sign of increased testosterone. Progesterone also drops with age as described above. This can cause problems with the production of cortisol in typically overstressed aging adrenals.
Restoring progesterone levels with OTC progesterone cream supports adrenal function [as does DHEA] while protecting women from the damage of unopposed estrogen.
All steroid hormones are transported into the nuclei of the cells where gene expression is changed. The danger of fake estrogens and progestins [fake progesterone] is that these xeno molecules are doing affecting gene expression in unintended ways. Progesterone is cardio-protective. Progestins are not. Hence the warnings about blood clots, strokes and heart attacks with oral birth control pills etc.[/quote]
Thanks KSman.
BC pills have been horrific to my system. I will not touch them - they have been worse to me then the 2 week cycle of Anavar ( awaiting for the tests results ) I did.
I have been supplementing with vitamin D3 for 7 months - I have even taken D3 injections IM.
I have also used DHEA 50-150mg a day IM and 50mg IV injections - MY FAVOURITE supplement by injection thus far! The only supplier I know of is unreliable so I stopped it. The pill showed no significant difference - not that I felt its impact like I did with the injection, anyway.
I read that synthetic progesterone is not good for anyone’s system. You have also confirmed that fact to me when we spoke via pm when I began this journey. I have even discussed briefly with Bill Roberts and tried to encourage him to look at the benefits of natural progesterone for men.
I have been using a natural progesterone cream and incidently, in the above difficult month where I almost didn’t get my period, I did slack off in applying the cream as I was feeling great from the GH and felt NO SIGNS of hormonal imbalance - specially estrogen rise. It just hit me.
When I applied the progesterone cream on my belly the day after my period was gone and the bloated belly rose up again the belly went straight down! It was amazing! Then during the day with the daily stressors ( It has been snowing for days in England and I also get a big gut if there is not enough heat - we have never had bitter cold weather as this and I have lived here 21 years! So much for global warming…) the belly would push out again but it is getting better gradually ( I am taking liquid vitamin D3 and acidophilus ).
It is now calming down and returning to normal. I had this problem before at the age of 24 ( I am 39 now ) when I got to a very lean BF level. My hunch is that my body is not used to menstruating at very low BF levels induced by diet. Ever since when I stopped training at elite level ( 4-5 hours a day, 6 days a week ), I also stopped eating at elite levels. In order to be VERY LEAN and eat enough to menstruate I need to train at very high levels which I don’t any more. Female athletes are known for ‘losing their periods’ naturally ( now I wonder if this is also due to untested GH…).
I tried to reach lean athletic looks without the intensity of the elite training my body was used to and I believe my endocrine system reads this as an unnatural state.
But I could be wrong and there are obviously many variables to dial in.
EDIT: I also began to rely more and more on zero carbs protein shakes plus 50g protein bars with 9g carbs building up to a very high intake that month. I have now discontinued these synthetic protein products.
It is the build up of progesterone that holds off bleeding. When progesterone is low, women get spotting. When progesterone levels drop, your period should start.
Oral DHEA should be all that you need. Not legal there, hard to get?
There is no difference between synthetic and natural. Progesterone is progesterone. Synthetic does not mean fake even though progestins are synthetic. Your DHEA is synthetic. All steroid hormones start off as tropical yams. They are all synthetic. Bio-identical hormones are synthetic. Testosterone esters are a delivery system for T. After the ester groups are removed, you have bio-identical T.
[quote]KSman wrote:
It is the build up of progesterone that holds off bleeding. When progesterone is low, women get spotting. When progesterone levels drop, your period should start.
Oral DHEA should be all that you need. Not legal there, hard to get? [/quote]
It was illegal, I guess it still is. Having used DHEA injection I would not got back to oral.
I found the injections on a pharmacy from Romania. They failed to deliver the B5 and have been telling me ‘the supplier is having issues’ and won’t issue a refund. They do reply to me but won’t issue a refund. I contacted my bank to file for fraud.
I got my D3, progesterone, B12, MIC and B6 injections from them and it was all kosher. I have not found injectable DHEA anywhere else on the world wide web. Not even China. [quote]
There is no difference between synthetic and natural. Progesterone is progesterone. Synthetic does not mean fake even though progestins are synthetic. Your DHEA is synthetic. All steroid hormones start off as tropical yams. They are all synthetic. Bio-identical hormones are synthetic. Testosterone esters are a delivery system for T. After the ester groups are removed, you have bio-identical T.[/quote]
That is not what I read. Every female HRT site claimed there was a difference between ‘natural’ and synthetic progesterone ( progestins ). And that I should not get synthetic progesterone and even creams that claimed to be ‘natural’ to check for some ingredients that should not be there. I read a lot about this.
I know that even our ‘natural’ food is laden with ‘synthetic’ hormones but I understood from my research that there was a significant difference between progesterone supplements.
Read again what I stated. I was precise. Others are confusing ‘synthetic’ with ‘different’ or ‘altered’. There is no difference. Synthetic means “a compound made artificially by chemical reactions”. The compound can be identical to the compound found in nature.
Again, the hormones that you are using are made from yams, synthesized from chemicals found in yams. If it is DHEA, it is indistinguishable from the DHEA made in your adrenals. If is it not the same, it would not be DHEA. Bio-identical hormones are synthetic.
If you got a hormone that was not synthetic, it would have to be extracted from animals. That is not practical. The exception would seem to be hCG which is extracted from urine of pregnant women unless made by recombinant DNA techniques.
You need to read past the loose language that others write.
Progestins are synthetic and are not progesterone.
In the USA DHEA is sold beside the vitamins. It can be purchased cheaply as a bulk powder. Some absorb oral DHEA easily and some not very well. I need to take a “pinch” measure of DHEA powder to get decent DHEA-S levels. DHEA has been misrepresented and criminalized all through the Commonwealth.
I understand.
On a happy note: I remember I had some formestane left over and took a 25mg pill last night before bed.
The pregnant belly is no more. The progesterone cream alleviated my condition but was transient.
The formestane seems to be holding it at bay. I will re evaluate at the 12hour mark where the half life should occur.
This is very interesting!