How's This For Mass?

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]PFDFireMan wrote:
Along with a massive eating program, how is this lifting routine:

Monday
Squats (20 rep)
Stiff leg deads
abs

Wednesday
Bench press
Incline bench press
cable crossover

Friday
Tbar rows
chins (how ever many sets to get 30)
bent over rows
close grip pulldowns
rack pulls

Rep range will vary. I thought about supersetting the cable crossovers with pullovers and I dont know if i want to do tris with chest and bis with back or vice versa. Also I may throw about 15 min. on the treadmill one of those days just to stay a little lean. Any suggestions?
[/quote]

I guess you are training 3 times pr week because, thats all the time you can train. here is what I think you can do, skip the cablecrossover, add lunge and legcurls on leg day. add militarypresses and close-grip-benchpress on chest day. besides that try to beat your last work out each time you train, your weekly goal should be 5pounds or 1 more rep.

good luck with getting big and strong.

42

[quote]florelius wrote:
…thats all the time you can train. [/quote]

…and he’s in THIS forum?

Why do some of you make this shit so complicated when your goals are so…non-intense?

43

[quote]PFDFireMan wrote:
Along with a massive eating program, how is this lifting routine:

Monday
Squats (20 rep)
Stiff leg deads
abs

Wednesday
Bench press
Incline bench press
cable crossover

Friday
Tbar rows
chins (how ever many sets to get 30)
bent over rows
close grip pulldowns
rack pulls

Rep range will vary. I thought about supersetting the cable crossovers with pullovers and I dont know if i want to do tris with chest and bis with back or vice versa. Also I may throw about 15 min. on the treadmill one of those days just to stay a little lean. Any suggestions?
[/quote]

What you posted is crap.

BUT…

You are at least on the right track.

The problems:

1)Your goals, diet and training do not go well together.

Massive eating, low volume, low intensity and low frequency looks like a great way to build SOME muslce and LOTS of fat.

  1. 20 rep squats.

It MAY be a good idea for some people, but how much weight are you actually going to be using for this. If its anything less than 400+, id suggest following something more basic.

  1. 15 min on the treamill.

Seriously whats the point of this. 15 min on the treadmill is going to burn 100-200 calories,and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR YOU.

In conclusion. You can still salvage this plan in a few ways.

-Either add more frequency and up it to 5-7x per week,

OR add more exercises and more sets to each day.

For ex: If you are going to work your lower body only once a week, you are going to probably “need” at least 12-15 sets in that workout, with about 3-4 exercises. Something like: Squat 5x5, lunge 4x8, RDL 3x10 AT LEAST. Im not saying that is an absolute, because if you are REALLY strong and puttin up a ton of weight on the squat, then you get your volume from the load instead of the reps.

Best bet for you… If you are gonna stick to 3x per week, go with starting strength or built like a badass. Otherwise up the frequency and go with something appopriate.

44

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
…thats all the time you can train. [/quote]

…and he’s in THIS forum?

so he should have posted it in the the beginners forum instead? but since he did post it here, why not try to help him out insted of trashing him. you prof.x. are a big and strong guy, why dont you make a sample split for the guy.

Why do some of you make this shit so complicated when your goals are so…non-intense?[/quote]

45

[quote]florelius wrote:

so he should have posted it in the the beginners forum instead? [/quote]

No, he shouldn’t have. being a beginner doesn’t erase the fact that the drive to push harder than most and make sacrifices is needed no matter what stage of training. I have a REAL hard time believing anyone who claims they can only train 3 days a week. Why? Because I’ve managed to keep training in spite of trying to accomplish quite a bit outside of the gym.

I am also not going to bullshit people. You will NOT reach any sort of elite level (read that as way bigger than most of the people here who rush to post first) if you can’t put the time in.

Trash him? I responded directly to his biggest obstacle as far as reaching his own goals.

Why the fuck would I move past that before that is resolved?

On a side note, I would really like to see pictures of all of the HUGE mutherfuckers who got that way from only training 3 days a week.

There should be tons on this site by now.

Anyone care to show the rest of us how well that works?

46

[quote]Professor X wrote:
He tapped me on the shoulder after I finished and in a really thick Chinese accent said, “Wow, you REALLY big…STRONG” and then made that most muscular attempt people do to signify strength.[/quote]

LMAO fuck me, would love to have seen that.

I train 6 times a week at the moment, when I was training 5 days a week I would get people telling me ‘your training too much dude, you’ll overtrain and burn yourself out. Three days is enough for any man.’ Fast forward two years and you’ll be hard pushed to find a single motherfucker in my gym who has added more much muscle than me…

47

I am not huge, a bodybuilder or a powerlifter. and I have never said I was. but I think its fun to lift weights and put on some muscles and get stronger, and my goal is to look good nekkid:P, maybe pfdfireman yust want that or maybe he wants to look like ronnie coleman. If his goal its the same as mine 3 days a week will be fine, if he wants to be a pro bodybuilder or a pro powerlifter he offcourse then have to make training he`s life and start to train with others ho have the same goal.

48

[quote]florelius wrote:
… and my goal is to look good nekkid [/quote]

IMO, the use of this phrase often by T-Nation authors and the interpretation of most people who use it often has contributed more to the derailment of T-Nation’s direction toward ‘bodybuilding’ (ie. the getting bigger part of bodybuilding) than just about anything else on this site.

Sure, I wanna ‘look good nekkid’, too, but not at the expense of meeting my size/strength goals, which I would think (hope) would be the common goal on a ‘bodybuilding’ forum. I think the goal of getting ‘skinny and abzey’ probably belongs more in the ‘Conditioning’ or ‘VDiet’ forums-- BB competition dieting, like Stu’s thread excluded, of course.

Hell, I’m fine with looking “good enough nekkid”.

49

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
… and my goal is to look good nekkid [/quote]

IMO, the use of this phrase often by T-Nation authors and the interpretation of most people who use it often has contributed more to the derailment of T-Nation’s direction toward ‘bodybuilding’ (ie. the getting bigger part of bodybuilding) than just about anything else on this site.

Sure, I wanna ‘look good nekkid’, too, but not at the expense of meeting my size/strength goals, which I would think (hope) would be the common goal on a ‘bodybuilding’ forum. I think the goal of getting ‘skinny and abzey’ probably belongs more in the ‘Conditioning’ or ‘VDiet’ forums-- BB competition dieting, like Stu’s thread excluded, of course.

Hell, I’m fine with looking “good enough nekkid”.[/quote]

Agreed. It is a like a battle cry for mediocrity. These are often the same people turning the simple act of lifting weights into some super science experiment yet never having much to show for it.

If you are just in the gym because “it’s fun to lift weights”, you are likely in the wrong forum.

It is FUN to reach a fucking goal. I enjoy pushing myself and reaching new levels of development. I do not lift for fucking entertainment and there is nothing more irritating than a gym half filled with jackasses who don’t even sweat and just go through the motions…for the fucking fun of it.

The only thing worse is those who come to the gym to socialize.

50

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]juanke wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Looks like Juanke is the first misguided poster of the '10 class, congrats man![/quote]

I’m not misguided. This is a difference of opinion.[/quote]

Just saying I don’t like when people say things in an absolute sense. When you said you cannot squat/row/press 2x a week I can tell you there are plenty of people, myself included, who do either that or close to it. Personally, I do all of those lifts 2x in a 8-10 day period.

You also lost me at how the fast and slow twitch fibers need to be specifically targeted and on top of that, targeted separately. That doesn’t make much sense to me.[/quote]

I follow a 6 day program and do compound movements twice a week. I squat, deadlift and press because those are the exercises that seem to work for me. What I’m saying is that my body doesn’t allow me to i.e. deadlift MAXIMUM weights two times a week. And if I do I won’t PROGRESS. I might PROGRESS (meaning add weight) after I take a longer three day break and go back to the gym and do those maximum sets that I do. BUT in two weeks when lifting 12 days my body won’t be recovered enough to lift more than what my current max weight is.

The guy who started this thread seemed to me a beginner of sort because he had some 20rep set and an odd program. So i tried to guide him to the right direction. I don’t know what an absolute sense means.

Isn’t it common knowledge that fast twitch fibers are adapted to a short duration contraction. Meaning they need to be hit hard and that they tire after a short while. Slow twitch muscle fibers don’t tire as easily and need higher rep sets than fast twitch fibers. FTFs are for short, explosive and maximum force while STFs are for prolonged intense work. In an extreme case of STF training we are talking about marathon runners.

And those isolation exercises… Now I don’t know what kind of weights you guys move with your trunks I don’t really care. The point is that when doing isolation movements the targeted muscle will tire faster than if for example targeting it “undirectly”.[quote]
For example, instead of targeting a lagging muscle group with isolation exercises, they try to get around the matter by either using compound exercises that put more stress on the lagging muscle group or use exercises for DIFFERENT muscle groups that put more stress on the lagging muscle group. That’s not a bad approach, per se, but it probably won’t work for most people with lagging muscle groups. [/quote]
Now i’m not talking about lagging muscle groups BUT WHAT I MEAN is that training biceps by doing barbel curls is better than doing a one handed dumbbell biceps curl UNLESS your biceps are lagging. THIS WAY THE DANGER OF OVERTRAINING your bicep is smaller. And overtraining is no good for progress. Now we all do both exercises but overtraining a specific muscle is a danger when doing isolation exercises for smaller muscles. [quote]“We’re not into isolation exercises; you can’t add big weights to them over time”. I just don’t understand this reasoning; most top level bodybuilders wouldn’t have reached their level of development without isolation exercises. [/quote]
I think this is just a matter of knowing when to stop. Overtraining is a danger when training smaller muscles with isolation exercises.

[quote]Seriously whats the point of this. 15 min on the treadmill is going to burn 100-200 calories,and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR YOU.[/quote] There is nothing wrong about doing little cardio. Thats that.

51

[quote]PFDFireMan wrote:
What about WS4SB? Its a 3 day program. I know they have conditioning and other sport specific days and im willing to incorporate stuff like that. I just want to be big but be as strong as I look. In the original post i said I wasnt sure which days I wanted to add arms. Thats why you didnt see any direct arm work. I did forget to add shoulders which i would probably add it to chest day. Ive lifted for a year now with good results. I went from about 150lbs. to 183 pounds and my main 3 lifts improved as well but my routine got a little stale and boring.

I decided to try something new. I picked 3 days because I always did a 4 day split and I just felt like I wasnt recovering enough and I lost motivation because of it. I was just looking for advice fellas.[/quote]

Should work well. And adding 30+ pounds in a year is undoubtedly good. Do what works for you, keep eating and lift some heavy shit (5RM or heavier, for the “as strong as you look” part) occasionally and you should get where you want. At 5’8", you could probably get away with doing less isolation work than most do, but if it works, you should definitely keep doing it.

52

You can get Big on 3 days a week, in 20+ years I seldom trained more than 4 .

53

[quote]Vulf wrote:
You can get Big on 3 days a week, in 20+ years I seldom trained more than 4 .[/quote]

4 is not 3.

From page one:

I also trained 7 days a week through most of my doctorate only taking days off when I felt the need. I also know not everyone can do this and that most people may need more days off.

But I guess everything needs to be spelled out with the same plastic letters they use as refrigerator magnets.

Care to give numbers of exactly how many years you restricted your lifting to only 3 days week?

54

Somehow, it seems this thread went from “What do you think?” to “let’s kick the shit out of the workout proposal.”
Different workouts produce different results for a variety of body types(endo/ecto/meso) and ages(no funny comments about mine!!)
It seems lacking for TUT and, as a result, intensity. That’s where you’ll get bit. Fuck the once a week/twice a week debate, work out as a hard as you can for what you’re doing and adjust from there. Our bodies are all a big experiment, based on your individual metabolism/body composition/age/desires.
Whatever happens, keep lifting!!

55

Utilize whichever method will allow for the greatest number of Asian men to compliment you in the gym. After all, that is what it is all about.

56

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
… and my goal is to look good nekkid [/quote]

IMO, the use of this phrase often by T-Nation authors and the interpretation of most people who use it often has contributed more to the derailment of T-Nation’s direction toward ‘bodybuilding’ (ie. the getting bigger part of bodybuilding) than just about anything else on this site.

Sure, I wanna ‘look good nekkid’, too, but not at the expense of meeting my size/strength goals, which I would think (hope) would be the common goal on a ‘bodybuilding’ forum. I think the goal of getting ‘skinny and abzey’ probably belongs more in the ‘Conditioning’ or ‘VDiet’ forums-- BB competition dieting, like Stu’s thread excluded, of course.

Hell, I’m fine with looking “good enough nekkid”.[/quote]

my goal is to gain weight, not get skinny with a skinny pack, thats where i am now. Even so I do now I cant be a pro BB or PL, I am born as a weak and skinny guy. I started out as a 48kg guy, I am now 60kg. so a realistic goal for me is not to be 90kg ripped. If this is a problem for you guys, then I am sorry but I am not leaving T-Nation because of that.

57

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
… and my goal is to look good nekkid [/quote]

IMO, the use of this phrase often by T-Nation authors and the interpretation of most people who use it often has contributed more to the derailment of T-Nation’s direction toward ‘bodybuilding’ (ie. the getting bigger part of bodybuilding) than just about anything else on this site.

Sure, I wanna ‘look good nekkid’, too, but not at the expense of meeting my size/strength goals, which I would think (hope) would be the common goal on a ‘bodybuilding’ forum. I think the goal of getting ‘skinny and abzey’ probably belongs more in the ‘Conditioning’ or ‘VDiet’ forums-- BB competition dieting, like Stu’s thread excluded, of course.

Hell, I’m fine with looking “good enough nekkid”.[/quote]

my goal is to gain weight, not get skinny with a skinny pack, thats where i am now. Even so I do now I cant be a pro BB or PL, I am born as a weak and skinny guy. I started out as a 48kg guy, I am now 60kg. so a realistic goal for me is not to be 90kg ripped. If this is a problem for you guys, then I am sorry but I am not leaving T-Nation because of that.[/quote]

Well, first, nobody asked you to leave T-Nation.

Second, you’ll certainly never get much bigger with THAT attitude-- you’ve already defeated yourself dude! Seriously, how can you possibly force your body to do something it wants if on every rep you’re subconsciously (or consciously) reinforcing to yourself that you’ll NEVER get big. Along the lines of an art thread in G.A.L. right now, I can totally visualize myself with the arms/torso/legs I’m looking to build. It’s going to take a fuckton more food and that much more work.

Third, why isn’t 90kg realistic— what is that, around 200-ish? You qualify it with ‘ripped’. How about “90kg relatively lean”, or “90kg smooth”? If you can get to 90kg smooth, and you can live with it, you can diet down to 80kg and look leaner, no?

I’ve been working out with a kid (I say kid, he’s like 22 or 23) who is 6’-3". He’s got skinnyman disease and always used the word ‘hardgainer’. He asked me for ‘advice’ awhile back, and I said “start eating like a man”. In a few months, he’s put on about 15 pounds since around Aug/September. He looks a little fuller and his weights have gone up even given his crappy leverages (see? another ‘excuse’ he used).

He set his mind to it, and he’s been executing to meet the goal: Eat enough to grow, workout 5 days a week. In that short time he has passed his buddies at the gym who still eat like birds and hit the weights at ‘scrimmage speed’.

I’m just sayin.

58

I am not saying its impossible for me to gain weight or add strenght, but I am saying I have to get to 70kg before I can get to 80kg and so on. by the way, I have to gaine around 20pounds( 10kg ) to get to 70kg, and that is problably going to take me 6months if I am strict with my eating and training. My point is that I am not going around with a “hardgainer” attitude, I am simply trying to be realistic.

but thanks for the advice. I need to improve my eating.

59

Not to derail the thread, but Asians are the wrong crowd to “mock” on a BB forum. I’ve noticed that asians (chinese and japanese) have serious respect for physical strength and strong people in general. You wont find steroid or small dick accusations coming your way, they hgave healthy appetites, don’t mind gaining weight, aren’t abz-obsessed (that changes with the thais and filipinos athough) AND they’ll usually ask you for help.
AND a lot of asians usually have good genetics for leanness, proportion and muscle shape, but have trouble thickening up significantly (thats why the asian heavyweights tend to look just a little weird). Point is, the guy was most certainly not making fun of you with his “most muscular”. Sorry for the hijack.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I had a Chinese guy come up to me tonight as I just finished training chest. He just stood there with his mouth open while I finished my set. I tried to act like I didn’t see him at first because I tend to get this pretty often. He tapped me on the shoulder after I finished and in a really thick Chinese accent said, “Wow, you REALLY big…STRONG” and then made that most muscular attempt people do to signify strength.
[/quote]

60

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Not to derail the thread, but Asians are the wrong crowd to “mock” on a BB forum. I’ve noticed that asians (chinese and japanese) have serious respect for physical strength and strong people in general. You wont find steroid or small dick accusations coming your way, they hgave healthy appetites, don’t mind gaining weight, aren’t abz-obsessed (that changes with the thais and filipinos athough) AND they’ll usually ask you for help.
AND a lot of asians usually have good genetics for leanness, proportion and muscle shape, but have trouble thickening up significantly (thats why the asian heavyweights tend to look just a little weird). Point is, the guy was most certainly not making fun of you with his “most muscular”. Sorry for the hijack.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I had a Chinese guy come up to me tonight as I just finished training chest. He just stood there with his mouth open while I finished my set. I tried to act like I didn’t see him at first because I tend to get this pretty often. He tapped me on the shoulder after I finished and in a really thick Chinese accent said, “Wow, you REALLY big…STRONG” and then made that most muscular attempt people do to signify strength.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I wasn’t making fun of him and didn’t think he was making fun of me. What the fuck are you talking about? Wait, so even describing the nationality of someone is now racist?