[quote]novocaine wrote:
the rule of thumb is pretty simple:
if you have to ask others whether your routine is good, you are not advanced enough to make your own routine and should instead follow SS or 5/3/1 and learn. then you will be able to create your own program and you won’t have to ask people if it’s good, because you will know what works for you.[/quote]
x2
The program you posted is fine but you will still get more from an established program like 5/3/1 or this:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
ultralars,
What are your current Bench/Squat/DL numbers and what were they at the beginning of 2010?[/quote]
i just started squatting when i first started this program, about 4 weeks ago. and i maxed about 2 weeks ago 70 kg, i guess it’s the same now.
i am not really focusing on either squat or deadlift, but i could do about 110 kg in DL when i first maxed in i think june.
at the benchpress which is one of the exercises that i focus on, i started out at 40 in january and can now bench 72.5. i hit a platue at 60 kg when the noob gains stopped. i am going for 100 kg benchpress by 24th december.
this might not be what you asked for but it’s one of the exercises i focus on so i’ll say it anyway. at the clean and jerk i could do about 40 in the beginning of june now i do 52.5
and to answer the other guys,
fabiop: i never do a set time rest, i rest till i feel i am ready for the next set.
the reason that i stacked the exercises the way i did is because the thing you said. that because i do multiple exercises that utilizes the same muscles altough the focus is somewhere else, the fatigue might drag me down. but i stacked them so that i never utilize the same muscles in a row.
How long do these workouts take? 3 hours? Longer? This is just not very well thought out it seems. Your progress will stall. Actually, it has already stalled from some of you responses on here.
Something that will benefit you: Take a step back and realize you know absolutely nothing about training. I’m not saying this to be a dick, I’m saying this because it will help you. I have been lifting/ studying strength for a long time and I still don’t know shit about anything but I do have experience. Experience tells me that someone with zero experiecne making their own program isnt going to go very far. You just need to get on some kind of program for a novice that has a focus on technique and volume in the main lifts. Ideally, find guys stronger than you and lift with them. Gains will come much faster after you have a common sense prgression and cut out all of the extra bullshit exercises. 5/3/1 is fine. Bill Starrs 5x5 is fine. Westsides Advanced System for Beginners is the best in my opinion but it’s a lot to handle.
Read books, not “Flex”, and actually learn something about stregnth training. Then, years from now, start making your own programs. For now, get on something that has worked already.
1 hour and 10-20 min usually
That means you are doing 35-45 sets in 70-80 minutes. That means you are resting 2 minutes or less between every set and every exercise. This isn’t optimal for strength gains. The reason people are telling you that this isn’t a great program is that it doesn’t have the same characteristics as other routines that have proven effective for beginners.
Through all of this I haven’t seen any mention of how to choose your starting weights, how you progress, and what your plan is if you stall on a particular lift. These are often the critical elements of a good training program. Anyone can pick list of exercises and set and reps, but you have to have some experience to come up with your own progression scheme.
So to summarize, here are the potential problems I see:
Too many exercises in too short a time (focus on the big stuff and cut out the fluff). If you want to build strength with sets of 5, you need more than 2 minutes of rest if you are going to lift heavy.
No progression scheme or plan for stalling
Lack of proven track record. All of the other programs mentioned have track records of years and many, many people who have benefitted. Your program doesn’t have this.
my progession plan goes like this
week 1
mon a
wed B increase weight on B exercises
fri a
week 2
mon b
wed a increase weight on a
fri b
i logg my workout on my ipod, don’t know how to show it here. so i keep tab on how i am progressing.
well, i don’t really have a sett rest time that i do on every exercise, i just start again when i feel like i am ready, if thats 30 sec fine, if it’s 2 minutes fine.
the reason why you need so long rest time is because you dont want to fail at 5 reps because of fatigue right? well i always manage 5 reps, partly because i aint using that much weight( YET ) but i always keep the intensity high
[quote]brauny96 wrote:
[quote]daraz wrote:
Your routine’s fine, don’t sweat it. You could post the best program ever invented, custom made for you by the Gods of strength, and random people here would still tell you what you do is wrong. As you can see the current flavor of the week is 5/3/1 so everybody’s on your nuts to do that. They don’t even know what’s good for themselves, but they still pretend they know better for you.
Your program looks straight out the dinosaur training book, the most old school type of program. Shit will change as you get older and stronger, but these programs are fine for you right now. In my teens, full body workouts like that were 10x more productive than any split.[/quote]
I’m not a random fucking guy, Ive spent enough time under the bar to realize that “hmmm maybe my bench doesnt respond to something, and my shoulders get really beat up from it” or “wow my squat is increasing with X program, so in the future I should do something like that.” I know how my body works because Ive gotten more experience on how to LISTEN to it, and that definitely doesnt happen overnight.
And for the record, I dont use 5/3/1, and I dont ever plan on using it again. because I listened to my body and looked at how much stronger/weaker I was getting, and made changes to it based on how I PERSONALLY felt. I recommended 5/3/1 because I saw how many BEGINNERS (OP) used it and learned the form, got bigger/stronger, and got some experience from it after a year.
To the OP
Your program will work for maybe another few months, hell maybe a bit longer, but once your body doenst just grow from newbie gains, you will stop, stall and go backwards with that thing. But whatever, you can just be like the other dumbasses, that wont take advice, then bitch and moan when theyre still 140 pounds after a year, I dont give a fuck.[/quote]
A couple points, on the net you’re not any less random than anyone else. Have 1000 posts a day on every forum in the world, post awesome tips videos, write a million articles and share all your meet results, it won’t change that fact. Also, my message wasn’t directed specifically to you, but if the hat fits.
Lastly (and this one is not for you brauny but I don’t care to post twice), even though people’s advice can be a genuine attempt to help (I bet it’s more often about feeling superior), it’s generally terrible. Very few people on this board are coaches, let alone competent ones. It’s normal then that online advice is, in its entirety, shit. First of all, people see a post and don’t put it into its context. I see it time and again. Hell I bet I posted tons of shit advice myself, I’m not the Almighty after all.
Think about this situation from a coach’s perspective, you have a young kid who built his own program which from the outset, looks better than 95% of the shit you see in the training logs section. He appears to have been following it diligently to boot. But, oh no! He built it himself so it doesn’t have the internet expert seal of approval. Big fucking deal. Old school programs like he posted have stood a test of time that no other program ever has. And I don’t even train like that by the way, I’m just stating.
He then posts on a board asking for critiques, but it doesn’t take a genius to realize he just wants to make sure he’s in the right direction, maybe hopes to get a few tips to improve upon what he’s doing. How would it ever make any sense to tell him everything he’s done is wrong when it’s not, and to completely tear apart his training on the basis that he’s not experienced enough to build a good program for himself, then have him do ANOTHER COOKIE CUTTER. Even if his program is not “optimal”, he’ll learn to make it so by his own experiences and come into his own rather than following the flavor of the week.
Good advice would have been to tell him stuff like not overdoing it, listening to his body. Take it easy if he gets tired, make sure he started light to develop decent form and get momentum, pay attention to how his back feels because he pulls often, the importance of not missing a workout, maybe do more reps and less sets on small exercises, etc. Luckily he’s stubborn enough to stick to his guns, and intelligent enough to realize nobody told him for what reason his program is so terrible (because there is none). The day his program quits working, he can try shit on his own to adjust.
Making him do drastic changes in his program is like telling him to trade training consistency for training fads. Don’t make him another victim of program jumping. Yesterday you’d have told him to do sheiko, the day before it would have been westside and tomorrow it’ll be something else. Everybody falls victim to fads here and there, but you don’t have to push him down the cliff.
Actually I think people are trying to keep him from wasting his time. I spent about 12 years making up my own programs that weren’t all that great. I figured I had just reached my potential, but then I started using a proven powerlifting template and gained some weight and ended up making more progress in 2 years than the previous 12 years. Looking back I wish I had access to experienced lifters who could have pointed me in the right direction so I wouldn’t have wasted so much time with ineffective training. I also don’t believe 5x5 programs or 5/3/1 are training “fads”. The basic set-up of these programs has been around for a long time and have been proven effective. There is still room for some customization in these programs so the trainee is still going through the learning process while doing a proven program.
[quote]daraz wrote:
[quote]brauny96 wrote:
[quote]daraz wrote:
Your routine’s fine, don’t sweat it. You could post the best program ever invented, custom made for you by the Gods of strength, and random people here would still tell you what you do is wrong. As you can see the current flavor of the week is 5/3/1 so everybody’s on your nuts to do that. They don’t even know what’s good for themselves, but they still pretend they know better for you.
Your program looks straight out the dinosaur training book, the most old school type of program. Shit will change as you get older and stronger, but these programs are fine for you right now. In my teens, full body workouts like that were 10x more productive than any split.[/quote]
I’m not a random fucking guy, Ive spent enough time under the bar to realize that “hmmm maybe my bench doesnt respond to something, and my shoulders get really beat up from it” or “wow my squat is increasing with X program, so in the future I should do something like that.” I know how my body works because Ive gotten more experience on how to LISTEN to it, and that definitely doesnt happen overnight.
And for the record, I dont use 5/3/1, and I dont ever plan on using it again. because I listened to my body and looked at how much stronger/weaker I was getting, and made changes to it based on how I PERSONALLY felt. I recommended 5/3/1 because I saw how many BEGINNERS (OP) used it and learned the form, got bigger/stronger, and got some experience from it after a year.
To the OP
Your program will work for maybe another few months, hell maybe a bit longer, but once your body doenst just grow from newbie gains, you will stop, stall and go backwards with that thing. But whatever, you can just be like the other dumbasses, that wont take advice, then bitch and moan when theyre still 140 pounds after a year, I dont give a fuck.[/quote]
A couple points, on the net you’re not any less random than anyone else. Have 1000 posts a day on every forum in the world, post awesome tips videos, write a million articles and share all your meet results, it won’t change that fact. Also, my message wasn’t directed specifically to you, but if the hat fits.
Lastly (and this one is not for you brauny but I don’t care to post twice), even though people’s advice can be a genuine attempt to help (I bet it’s more often about feeling superior), it’s generally terrible. Very few people on this board are coaches, let alone competent ones. It’s normal then that online advice is, in its entirety, shit. First of all, people see a post and don’t put it into its context. I see it time and again. Hell I bet I posted tons of shit advice myself, I’m not the Almighty after all.
Think about this situation from a coach’s perspective, you have a young kid who built his own program which from the outset, looks better than 95% of the shit you see in the training logs section. He appears to have been following it diligently to boot. But, oh no! He built it himself so it doesn’t have the internet expert seal of approval. Big fucking deal. Old school programs like he posted have stood a test of time that no other program ever has. And I don’t even train like that by the way, I’m just stating.
He then posts on a board asking for critiques, but it doesn’t take a genius to realize he just wants to make sure he’s in the right direction, maybe hopes to get a few tips to improve upon what he’s doing. How would it ever make any sense to tell him everything he’s done is wrong when it’s not, and to completely tear apart his training on the basis that he’s not experienced enough to build a good program for himself, then have him do ANOTHER COOKIE CUTTER. Even if his program is not “optimal”, he’ll learn to make it so by his own experiences and come into his own rather than following the flavor of the week.
Good advice would have been to tell him stuff like not overdoing it, listening to his body. Take it easy if he gets tired, make sure he started light to develop decent form and get momentum, pay attention to how his back feels because he pulls often, the importance of not missing a workout, maybe do more reps and less sets on small exercises, etc. Luckily he’s stubborn enough to stick to his guns, and intelligent enough to realize nobody told him for what reason his program is so terrible (because there is none). The day his program quits working, he can try shit on his own to adjust.
Making him do drastic changes in his program is like telling him to trade training consistency for training fads. Don’t make him another victim of program jumping. Yesterday you’d have told him to do sheiko, the day before it would have been westside and tomorrow it’ll be something else. Everybody falls victim to fads here and there, but you don’t have to push him down the cliff.
[/quote]
I agree with what you said about random people on the internet, and the tone of advice given a young kid, however disagree with your rationale. He posted on the “powerlifting” forum, not the beginner or general strength/weighlifting forum. He got answers from powerlifters who are making recommendations to follow powerlifting routines.His training split doesn’t look like any powerlifting routine I have ever seen, and obviously others who looked at it as well, and they reacted critically. Go Figure…
This is a 15 year old kid who benches 160 and wants to be benching 220 within the next 4 months. And he is going to accomplish this by doing 9 exercises a training session, 5x5 for all exercises in an hour and 20 minutes. Everything about this is unrealistic and a set up for failure (however I will admit that this is probably more effective than what I was doing when I was 15).
We must have different ideas of what “old school” means. I am fine with the A/B whole body split, but who the hell does 5x5 ab twists and db curls? That is not going to work, and he needs to know that. Sometimes we learn hard lessons, but I do agree with you that trying to make kids feel stupid and insulting them is f-ed up.
If you are calling Westside a cookie cutter program, then you donâ??t know s–t about it. 5/3/1 is simple and effective and also leaves plenty of room to customize it. I am not sure how you could say Sheiko is a flavor of the week either. If you have a problem how beginners jump back and forth between them and argue on these boards about which one is better, then I agree with you, but I wouldn’t bash any of these programs or the philosophies behind them. Telling the kid to do one of these is much easier than going point by point over every issue in his program, and not bad advice.
My advice to the kid is that if you really want to try to increase your bench, spend a ton of time working on your BP form, find a proven program you like and stick with it, for a long time and work hard. If you want to invent your own program, buy a book like Practical Programming for Strength Training and read it, then re-read it 5 times.
Your program’s got too many pointless exercises and it doesn’t make sense to do 5x5 on everything. Put more focus on what really matters. Squat, deadlift and bench press (or variations of those) should be the bread and butter of your training shortly followed by some form of pull ups or rows. Focus more on this and a bit less on stuff like upright rows for now.
If you want to do 5x5 there’s a whole bunch of programs for that on the web. Google Bill Starr 5x5, Pendlay 5x5 or Madcow 5x5. The programs that StormTheBeach mentioned are all good too. Pick one that you like and stick to it for a while. Don’t make the mistake of changing programs too often, training requires consistency.
[quote]daraz wrote:
He then posts on a board asking for critiques, but it doesn’t take a genius to realize he just wants to make sure he’s in the right direction, maybe hopes to get a few tips to improve upon what he’s doing. How would it ever make any sense to tell him everything he’s done is wrong when it’s not, and to completely tear apart his training on the basis that he’s not experienced enough to build a good program for himself, then have him do ANOTHER COOKIE CUTTER. Even if his program is not “optimal”, he’ll learn to make it so by his own experiences and come into his own rather than following the flavor of the week.[/quote]
He can learn just as well (or better) by doing those “cookie cutter” programs too and he’ll be making less mistakes and wasting less time. As he gains a better understanding for his body he can start making small changes and adapt the program to himself. At the level where he is now no personal adaption is neccessary though, that need comes with time, so a “cookie cutter” program will work very well.
You don’t need to design a program from scratch to learn about program design, it’s better to work with a program that have worked for a ton of others and learn from that. Why reinvent the wheel?
[quote]Hodges einWindir wrote:
You sound like an IB kid.
[/quote]
FUCK IB KIDS! Sorry that’s all I have to contribute.
[quote]jerkwad55 wrote:
[quote]daraz wrote:
[quote]brauny96 wrote:
[quote]daraz wrote:
Your routine’s fine, don’t sweat it. You could post the best program ever invented, custom made for you by the Gods of strength, and random people here would still tell you what you do is wrong. As you can see the current flavor of the week is 5/3/1 so everybody’s on your nuts to do that. They don’t even know what’s good for themselves, but they still pretend they know better for you.
Your program looks straight out the dinosaur training book, the most old school type of program. Shit will change as you get older and stronger, but these programs are fine for you right now. In my teens, full body workouts like that were 10x more productive than any split.[/quote]
I’m not a random fucking guy, Ive spent enough time under the bar to realize that “hmmm maybe my bench doesnt respond to something, and my shoulders get really beat up from it” or “wow my squat is increasing with X program, so in the future I should do something like that.” I know how my body works because Ive gotten more experience on how to LISTEN to it, and that definitely doesnt happen overnight.
And for the record, I dont use 5/3/1, and I dont ever plan on using it again. because I listened to my body and looked at how much stronger/weaker I was getting, and made changes to it based on how I PERSONALLY felt. I recommended 5/3/1 because I saw how many BEGINNERS (OP) used it and learned the form, got bigger/stronger, and got some experience from it after a year.
To the OP
Your program will work for maybe another few months, hell maybe a bit longer, but once your body doenst just grow from newbie gains, you will stop, stall and go backwards with that thing. But whatever, you can just be like the other dumbasses, that wont take advice, then bitch and moan when theyre still 140 pounds after a year, I dont give a fuck.[/quote]
A couple points, on the net you’re not any less random than anyone else. Have 1000 posts a day on every forum in the world, post awesome tips videos, write a million articles and share all your meet results, it won’t change that fact. Also, my message wasn’t directed specifically to you, but if the hat fits.
Lastly (and this one is not for you brauny but I don’t care to post twice), even though people’s advice can be a genuine attempt to help (I bet it’s more often about feeling superior), it’s generally terrible. Very few people on this board are coaches, let alone competent ones. It’s normal then that online advice is, in its entirety, shit. First of all, people see a post and don’t put it into its context. I see it time and again. Hell I bet I posted tons of shit advice myself, I’m not the Almighty after all.
Think about this situation from a coach’s perspective, you have a young kid who built his own program which from the outset, looks better than 95% of the shit you see in the training logs section. He appears to have been following it diligently to boot. But, oh no! He built it himself so it doesn’t have the internet expert seal of approval. Big fucking deal. Old school programs like he posted have stood a test of time that no other program ever has. And I don’t even train like that by the way, I’m just stating.
He then posts on a board asking for critiques, but it doesn’t take a genius to realize he just wants to make sure he’s in the right direction, maybe hopes to get a few tips to improve upon what he’s doing. How would it ever make any sense to tell him everything he’s done is wrong when it’s not, and to completely tear apart his training on the basis that he’s not experienced enough to build a good program for himself, then have him do ANOTHER COOKIE CUTTER. Even if his program is not “optimal”, he’ll learn to make it so by his own experiences and come into his own rather than following the flavor of the week.
Good advice would have been to tell him stuff like not overdoing it, listening to his body. Take it easy if he gets tired, make sure he started light to develop decent form and get momentum, pay attention to how his back feels because he pulls often, the importance of not missing a workout, maybe do more reps and less sets on small exercises, etc. Luckily he’s stubborn enough to stick to his guns, and intelligent enough to realize nobody told him for what reason his program is so terrible (because there is none). The day his program quits working, he can try shit on his own to adjust.
Making him do drastic changes in his program is like telling him to trade training consistency for training fads. Don’t make him another victim of program jumping. Yesterday you’d have told him to do sheiko, the day before it would have been westside and tomorrow it’ll be something else. Everybody falls victim to fads here and there, but you don’t have to push him down the cliff.
[/quote]
I agree with what you said about random people on the internet, and the tone of advice given a young kid, however disagree with your rationale. He posted on the “powerlifting” forum, not the beginner or general strength/weighlifting forum. He got answers from powerlifters who are making recommendations to follow powerlifting routines.His training split doesn’t look like any powerlifting routine I have ever seen, and obviously others who looked at it as well, and they reacted critically. Go Figure…
This is a 15 year old kid who benches 160 and wants to be benching 220 within the next 4 months. And he is going to accomplish this by doing 9 exercises a training session, 5x5 for all exercises in an hour and 20 minutes. Everything about this is unrealistic and a set up for failure (however I will admit that this is probably more effective than what I was doing when I was 15).
We must have different ideas of what “old school” means. I am fine with the A/B whole body split, but who the hell does 5x5 ab twists and db curls? That is not going to work, and he needs to know that. Sometimes we learn hard lessons, but I do agree with you that trying to make kids feel stupid and insulting them is f-ed up.
If you are calling Westside a cookie cutter program, then you donÃ?¢??t know s–t about it. 5/3/1 is simple and effective and also leaves plenty of room to customize it. I am not sure how you could say Sheiko is a flavor of the week either. If you have a problem how beginners jump back and forth between them and argue on these boards about which one is better, then I agree with you, but I wouldn’t bash any of these programs or the philosophies behind them. Telling the kid to do one of these is much easier than going point by point over every issue in his program, and not bad advice.
My advice to the kid is that if you really want to try to increase your bench, spend a ton of time working on your BP form, find a proven program you like and stick with it, for a long time and work hard. If you want to invent your own program, buy a book like Practical Programming for Strength Training and read it, then re-read it 5 times. [/quote]
well yeah my goal is sky high, but whats wrong with that? it gives me motivation.
when i keep the goals high i’ll always work harder to reach them. i know a bunch of guys that only set goals they are sure they’ll reach, and when they do it’s like it’s not really anything special at all. " Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you’ll land among the stars." Les Brown
i don’t do 5x5 on ab exercise, i do 4x8 on ab twist, and 4x8 on crunches too. i seem to have forgot to write that. i am still trying to decide what set and rep range i should use while doing pull ups until i get stronger.
and i don’t give a fuck if i fail, every time i fail a lift, i tell the barbell that there is no fucking what that your going to keep me from one day lifting that weight, so every time i fail i get more pumped and ready to workout more.
yeah i know my program has too much junk exercises, but i don’t know how else you can hit all bodyparts. i only included this amount so that i’ll hit each respetivly, i still go for the money making compound exercises first.
just made some new personal records this week actually, i benched 75 yesterday and clean and jerked 55 on Wednesday, tried maxing on the deadlift again and got 105.
by the way, don’t think i don’t read and try to listen and follow all you guy’s advices. i am not some douche coming here to be praised, i was coming here looking for critique, and maybe some improvement here and there. for example more leg work.
[quote]ultralars wrote:
[quote]jerkwad55 wrote:
[quote]daraz wrote:
[quote]brauny96 wrote:
[quote]daraz wrote:
Your routine’s fine, don’t sweat it. You could post the best program ever invented, custom made for you by the Gods of strength, and random people here would still tell you what you do is wrong. As you can see the current flavor of the week is 5/3/1 so everybody’s on your nuts to do that. They don’t even know what’s good for themselves, but they still pretend they know better for you.
Your program looks straight out the dinosaur training book, the most old school type of program. Shit will change as you get older and stronger, but these programs are fine for you right now. In my teens, full body workouts like that were 10x more productive than any split.[/quote]
I’m not a random fucking guy, Ive spent enough time under the bar to realize that “hmmm maybe my bench doesnt respond to something, and my shoulders get really beat up from it” or “wow my squat is increasing with X program, so in the future I should do something like that.” I know how my body works because Ive gotten more experience on how to LISTEN to it, and that definitely doesnt happen overnight.
And for the record, I dont use 5/3/1, and I dont ever plan on using it again. because I listened to my body and looked at how much stronger/weaker I was getting, and made changes to it based on how I PERSONALLY felt. I recommended 5/3/1 because I saw how many BEGINNERS (OP) used it and learned the form, got bigger/stronger, and got some experience from it after a year.
To the OP
Your program will work for maybe another few months, hell maybe a bit longer, but once your body doenst just grow from newbie gains, you will stop, stall and go backwards with that thing. But whatever, you can just be like the other dumbasses, that wont take advice, then bitch and moan when theyre still 140 pounds after a year, I dont give a fuck.[/quote]
A couple points, on the net you’re not any less random than anyone else. Have 1000 posts a day on every forum in the world, post awesome tips videos, write a million articles and share all your meet results, it won’t change that fact. Also, my message wasn’t directed specifically to you, but if the hat fits.
Lastly (and this one is not for you brauny but I don’t care to post twice), even though people’s advice can be a genuine attempt to help (I bet it’s more often about feeling superior), it’s generally terrible. Very few people on this board are coaches, let alone competent ones. It’s normal then that online advice is, in its entirety, shit. First of all, people see a post and don’t put it into its context. I see it time and again. Hell I bet I posted tons of shit advice myself, I’m not the Almighty after all.
Think about this situation from a coach’s perspective, you have a young kid who built his own program which from the outset, looks better than 95% of the shit you see in the training logs section. He appears to have been following it diligently to boot. But, oh no! He built it himself so it doesn’t have the internet expert seal of approval. Big fucking deal. Old school programs like he posted have stood a test of time that no other program ever has. And I don’t even train like that by the way, I’m just stating.
He then posts on a board asking for critiques, but it doesn’t take a genius to realize he just wants to make sure he’s in the right direction, maybe hopes to get a few tips to improve upon what he’s doing. How would it ever make any sense to tell him everything he’s done is wrong when it’s not, and to completely tear apart his training on the basis that he’s not experienced enough to build a good program for himself, then have him do ANOTHER COOKIE CUTTER. Even if his program is not “optimal”, he’ll learn to make it so by his own experiences and come into his own rather than following the flavor of the week.
Good advice would have been to tell him stuff like not overdoing it, listening to his body. Take it easy if he gets tired, make sure he started light to develop decent form and get momentum, pay attention to how his back feels because he pulls often, the importance of not missing a workout, maybe do more reps and less sets on small exercises, etc. Luckily he’s stubborn enough to stick to his guns, and intelligent enough to realize nobody told him for what reason his program is so terrible (because there is none). The day his program quits working, he can try shit on his own to adjust.
Making him do drastic changes in his program is like telling him to trade training consistency for training fads. Don’t make him another victim of program jumping. Yesterday you’d have told him to do sheiko, the day before it would have been westside and tomorrow it’ll be something else. Everybody falls victim to fads here and there, but you don’t have to push him down the cliff.
[/quote]
I agree with what you said about random people on the internet, and the tone of advice given a young kid, however disagree with your rationale. He posted on the “powerlifting” forum, not the beginner or general strength/weighlifting forum. He got answers from powerlifters who are making recommendations to follow powerlifting routines.His training split doesn’t look like any powerlifting routine I have ever seen, and obviously others who looked at it as well, and they reacted critically. Go Figure…
This is a 15 year old kid who benches 160 and wants to be benching 220 within the next 4 months. And he is going to accomplish this by doing 9 exercises a training session, 5x5 for all exercises in an hour and 20 minutes. Everything about this is unrealistic and a set up for failure (however I will admit that this is probably more effective than what I was doing when I was 15).
We must have different ideas of what “old school” means. I am fine with the A/B whole body split, but who the hell does 5x5 ab twists and db curls? That is not going to work, and he needs to know that. Sometimes we learn hard lessons, but I do agree with you that trying to make kids feel stupid and insulting them is f-ed up.
If you are calling Westside a cookie cutter program, then you donÃ??Ã?¢??t know s–t about it. 5/3/1 is simple and effective and also leaves plenty of room to customize it. I am not sure how you could say Sheiko is a flavor of the week either. If you have a problem how beginners jump back and forth between them and argue on these boards about which one is better, then I agree with you, but I wouldn’t bash any of these programs or the philosophies behind them. Telling the kid to do one of these is much easier than going point by point over every issue in his program, and not bad advice.
My advice to the kid is that if you really want to try to increase your bench, spend a ton of time working on your BP form, find a proven program you like and stick with it, for a long time and work hard. If you want to invent your own program, buy a book like Practical Programming for Strength Training and read it, then re-read it 5 times. [/quote]
well yeah my goal is sky high, but whats wrong with that? it gives me motivation.
when i keep the goals high i’ll always work harder to reach them. i know a bunch of guys that only set goals they are sure they’ll reach, and when they do it’s like it’s not really anything special at all. " Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you’ll land among the stars." Les Brown
i don’t do 5x5 on ab exercise, i do 4x8 on ab twist, and 4x8 on crunches too. i seem to have forgot to write that. i am still trying to decide what set and rep range i should use while doing pull ups until i get stronger.
and i don’t give a fuck if i fail, every time i fail a lift, i tell the barbell that there is no fucking what that your going to keep me from one day lifting that weight, so every time i fail i get more pumped and ready to workout more.
yeah i know my program has too much junk exercises, but i don’t know how else you can hit all bodyparts. i only included this amount so that i’ll hit each respetivly, i still go for the money making compound exercises first.
just made some new personal records this week actually, i benched 75 yesterday and clean and jerked 55 on Wednesday, tried maxing on the deadlift again and got 105.
by the way, don’t think i don’t read and try to listen and follow all you guy’s advices. i am not some douche coming here to be praised, i was coming here looking for critique, and maybe some improvement here and there. for example more leg work.
[/quote]
Keep doing what you are doing. I think it will be better for you to learn from the mistakes you are making than to take any advice that’s been posted. To be so close minded so early on in your lifting career is going to cause you years of frustration. Again, I’m not saying this to be a dick, keep it up. See what happens 6 months down the line. Then re-evaluate your program.
Adding “fuck” before everything really doesn’t help you lift the bar. And if you fail every time and continue to do the same thing expecting a different result…well that’s the definition of insanity. Fail, learn, adjust, succeed.
[quote]ultralars wrote:
I am a 15 years old bodybuilder/powerlifter from norway
My main goal is to bench 100 kilos by 24th December
i train Monday, Wednesday and friday:
week 1 A, B, A
week 2 B, A, B
Repeat
here is my workout plan 5 sets and 5 reps on everything, not written in the order they are performed
Workout A
Bench press Barbell
Squats( to parallel)
Shoulder Press Barbell
Bent over row Barbell
Supination Curls Dumbbells
shrugs
standing calf raise
tricep pushdown
crunches
Workout B
Deadlift
Pull ups
Incline Bench Press Dumbbell
upright row
leg curl machine
a good morning machine while sitting (which means that it doesn’t work the legs )
machine side twist[/quote]
I believe you should do some type of program created by a ‘strength god’,as some of the other posters said. You will learn ALOT about your body from this program. As months pass, you can critique it a bit.
I learned that my OHP numbers were much better when i did it on days that i didnt bench or dip on.
I came to like kneeling rollouts(hopefully standing rollouts in a month or two) more than any other ab exercise.
I began squating 3 times a week(every lifting session) being that i play soccer, its the most sport relevent lift, and i recovered from it fairly easily.
I am nowhere near an experience PL’er or BB’er. My numbers reflect that. But, IMO, its best to start off with starting strength, 5x5, or 5/3/1(i’ve never done 5/3/1 but i may start it in a few months) the more you learn from your training and what works for you the more you can critique the routine.
Those programs were made to give the average joe, new to lifting, the best gains. What makes you think your program is better than a program made by people who have lifted and trained athletes for many years?
i think your program has too many random exersizes thrown into one workout…
if you want to increase your bench, the best method i would suggest for you would be to do bench press, deadlift, and squat once a week (training one body part every session)
in your current program you have too many compounds movements in one session and that will tire you out and you won’t be able to lift hard…
you need to spread out your work throughout the week and do big compounds movements…clean n jerk, bench press, deadlift, squat etc.
tricep pressdowns won’t help you in the long run.
Kid, your program is shit. You’ve been training for 8 months and just started squatting a month ago but somehow claim that you’re out of the range of noob gains? You also state that your squat has not improved since you started it a month ago? That doesn’t give you any kind of hint that you might be completely unqualified to come up with a routine with any effectiveness? Listen to the advice you’ve been given thus far and start one of the far superior programs that have been suggested to you.
Do you honestly think you can come up with a superior routine to gain muscle mass and strength than what someone like Jim Wendler can? You’re only going to waste a lot of your own time and effort following the routine you’ve come up with for yourself, trust that just about everyone on here knows much more than you do and all of the programs that have been suggested to you are miles ahead of any routine you would ever be able to come up with. Most of the people replying have probably made the mistake of following their own shitty routine and failed to make gains as a result, learn from the mistakes of others.
Also, is there a reason that you’re “not focusing” on the squat or deadlift?
x2 on what StormTheBeach says… let the kid do what he wants, he will eventually learn.
If he’s just going to do whatever he wants and “eventually learn”, then what the fuck is the point of this thread and why is anyone trying to give him any advice at all?
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
Kid, your program is shit. You’ve been training for 8 months and just started squatting a month ago but somehow claim that you’re out of the range of noob gains? You also state that your squat has not improved since you started it a month ago? That doesn’t give you any kind of hint that you might be completely unqualified to come up with a routine with any effectiveness? Listen to the advice you’ve been given thus far and start one of the far superior programs that have been suggested to you.
Do you honestly think you can come up with a superior routine to gain muscle mass and strength than what someone like Jim Wendler can? You’re only going to waste a lot of your own time and effort following the routine you’ve come up with for yourself, trust that just about everyone on here knows much more than you do and all of the programs that have been suggested to you are miles ahead of any routine you would ever be able to come up with. Most of the people replying have probably made the mistake of following their own shitty routine and failed to make gains as a result, learn from the mistakes of others.
Also, is there a reason that you’re “not focusing” on the squat or deadlift?[/quote]
I never said that my squat hasn’t improved, i just squatted 5 kilos more than last time. thats a great improvement.
fuck this forum, i came here looking for advice on how to improve my routine and what i got was a bunch of fagots completely loosing their temper.
almost none of you guys came here and replied something like:
Your routine sucks because of x and y.
you all just said:
Your routine is fucking shit and you can burn in hell for ever using it, do the 5,3,1.
Get a life all of you.