i work out hard. as often as possible. i eat a shitload. i have stopped supplementation of all forms over the summer because i cant afford it while im trying to build my ATM for college, but i may splurge on some Beta7, Surge, and creatine when i go to school.
i am seeing results, but i want more. i feel i have a well developed back shoulders and chest for a skinny guy, but my arms are lacking in size(roughly 14" when measured 2 months ago), though well defined.
all skinny guys who have become “big” (open to interpretation) without westside or any of those structured programs, how did YOU do it…what lifts, numbers of sets/reps, specific exercises how many days per week…please inform me on anything and everything that you feel has had a considerable effect on your progress…
Why do you not-include structured programs? Are opposed to knowing what you are going to do in advanced or something?[/quote]
no i always know what i am going to do be4 i get to the gym, i just dont get enjoyment out of looking at a piece of paper written by somebody else that tells me what i should do…lifting is a sort of therapy and leisure activity, i like to do it my own way, yaknow?
[quote]boomerlu wrote:
Seriously, why leave out “structured programs”. Even if the program is not written by a coach from these parts, if it has some logical pattern, chances are it will perform better than just randomly picking up weights.
I ain’t big by any stretch, but what size I do have is basically built from a football offseason program. All the good basic shit, bench, squat, dead, cleans, rows.
I’ve only been using the knowledge on here for about a year.[/quote]
good point, i just get enjoyment out of making up my own routine…part of the reason behind my initial post
[quote]Devil0351Dog wrote:
I’m not “big” by any means, but I went from 175 in August 2005 to 215 currently (less than a year). Yeah, there’s some fat gain, but whatever.
EAT. Beef (1lb burgers), cans of tuna, protein shakes out the ass, cheese, pizza, oatmeal, peanut butter blah blah blah. Eat BEFORE BED. Like right before.
TRAIN HARD BITCH. And I don’t think “Westside” is a “program”. What you’re refering to is a template. Dave Tate said it at the DC Test Fest, you don’t want to be stuck in a program, have something to guide you, but listen to your body and think for yourself damnit (paraphrased).
You know when I made my “breakthrough”? At the fucking DC Test Fest when I saw all the big guys and realized that I was a bitch, and then had a chance to talk one on one with some amazing trainers from this very site. YOU SHOULD GO TO THE LA SEMINAR. Seriously. I’m not kidding. You would benefit from it. I made my next breakthrough at the Syracuse Strength Spectacular (anouther seminar) when I was surrounded by big powerlifters and realized that I was STILL a pussy. So, the moral of the story is: Don’t blame it on a lack of supplements or a program. You KNOW what you need to do. Now get out there and fucking train like a damn animal (squats, deads, bench etc.) and eat rediculous amounts of food.
Good luck.
DD[/quote]
i like your advice about training and eating thank you for keepin it simple…how do i find out about these seminar things? seem interesting and helpful
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I am not enormous by any stretch, but when I was bigger (when playing sports), my rules were:
Eat a huge amount of protein before bed, and fat too. Big protein shake mixed with natty peanut butter. I switched to cottage cheese when I got tired of the above, but only for one night at a time.
Eat mixed nuts throughout the day, constantly. And I mean constantly. Some people swear by eating carbs - I had great results with constantly stuffing my face with almonds, walnuts, and cashews. Add dried fruit to add sweetness if you want.
Eat as big a breakfast as you can stand, of the healthiest stuff you can (egg whites, oatmeal, etc.). My appetite is always raging when I eat a big breakfast.
Deadlifts and/or cleans, of either the power or hang variety.
On big lifts, do the 8x3 stuff instead of the 3x8 stuff. I found that to be effective. More traditional high volume on more isolation-style moves.
Do some cardio - it always increased my appetite, so it was easier to eat more.
Just a few thoughts - best of luck.[/quote]
just about everything you said sounds reasonable…i have a fast metabolism…do you think its necessary to have a “clean” bulk diet…or should i just pack it in?
[quote]bigmike88 wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
I am not enormous by any stretch, but when I was bigger (when playing sports), my rules were:
Eat a huge amount of protein before bed, and fat too. Big protein shake mixed with natty peanut butter. I switched to cottage cheese when I got tired of the above, but only for one night at a time.
Eat mixed nuts throughout the day, constantly. And I mean constantly. Some people swear by eating carbs - I had great results with constantly stuffing my face with almonds, walnuts, and cashews. Add dried fruit to add sweetness if you want.
Eat as big a breakfast as you can stand, of the healthiest stuff you can (egg whites, oatmeal, etc.). My appetite is always raging when I eat a big breakfast.
Deadlifts and/or cleans, of either the power or hang variety.
On big lifts, do the 8x3 stuff instead of the 3x8 stuff. I found that to be effective. More traditional high volume on more isolation-style moves.
Do some cardio - it always increased my appetite, so it was easier to eat more.
Just a few thoughts - best of luck.
just about everything you said sounds reasonable…i have a fast metabolism…do you think its necessary to have a “clean” bulk diet…or should i just pack it in?
[/quote]
Don’t worry too much about clean – just eat a lot and make sure you’re getting enough protein. I was stuck at 195-200 for years while eating what I thought was a lot of clean food. I then started a progressive overload powerlifting program and “dirtied” up my diet. 3 months later I was 220 and now I’m 235 at 5’10". Had I worried about eating clean, I’d still be around 200 pounds.
just about everything you said sounds reasonable…i have a fast metabolism…do you think its necessary to have a “clean” bulk diet…or should i just pack it in?[/quote]
My personal view is to eat as clean as you can with the extra calories. When I eat crappy calories, I feel crappy and my energy levels are crappy. That translates into crappier performances in the gym. Junk food just wipes me out.
You may not experience this, so use your own judgment. But two things - think about cost and health. Junk food can often wind up being more expensive in the long run, which is important if you are on a budget. Second, don’t ignore your health - eating a bunch of crap food is not a good idea if you have high cholesterol, etc. Being big is meaningless if your insides aren’t up to snuff.
What do you mean by big? How big is big? I went from 6’ 150lbs… so that’s skinny, to 225lbs… fairly big.
I only did 2 things.
#1- I increased my food intake up about an extra meal everyday. I don’t count calories, I would never know how to do that anyway. I count meals.
#2- I Split my large muscle groups up into training them in one all out blitz then do another muscle the same way if i can, if not just add a smaller muscle and superset that too. SUPERSETS is what I use. I superset the same muscle for the larger ones and even for the smaller ones i mix in there too.
Example of how I set the workout up (I’ll use chest, but all the workout look similiar… just the exercises change and some of the rep schemes)
The workout.
warm up set- pullover 20 reps
2nd warm up set- bench press 40 reps
4-5 supersets
Dec Dumbbell fly 8- 12 reps (10 sec rest)
Dec Dumbbell press 6-10 reps (2 min rest)
Dips (stop a rep or 2 before failure) (10 sec rest)
Push ups (stop a few reps before failure) (2 minute rest)
finish the routine with hard chest contractions to bring out the definition.
If i have enough energy, I will do a calve routine of the same sort. If i have little energy, I will do a quick 9 set ab routine. If i have no energy I go home and raid the fridge.
Dude, here’s the info on the LA Seminar. Check it out. It would be a great investment in your training. It’s like what they say about surrounding yourself with like minded people or people you want to be like and you will make progress.
By eating food? Seriously you ask your question like if one can’t get big without following Westside or some Russian Smolov cycle. I know a lot of people who got big without deadlift/squat on fastfood diets. Training intensively and eating enough calories should be enough for the first few years…
i might catch some shit for this one but here it goes. “as often as possible” might be hindering your progress. i made my best/biggest gains when i was following a mon/tues/thurs/fri lifting schedule.
i loved to train at LEAST five days a week before but i had to force myself away from the weights and focus on recovery. what i did was focus on compound movements with heavy (manageable) weights and kept my sessions under an hour. then when i was done i ate…and ate…and ate again…and kept doing it. lift, rest, recovery, nutrition, repeat. goodluck
If you are seriously “small”, then you one of those guys fat people envy: you can eat anything. Seriously. Take this one for a spin:
600mL full cream milk
some random tablespoon of cocoa
large globs of peanut butter
protein shake (chocolate works good)
—> blend and drink baby
seriously… it’s so insanely hard to get fat when you are a former stick… read nutrition etc, but dont worry about it for now… just eat anything, everything there is layed before you, around you, within reach and even out of reach. And for extra fun, eat in front of a FFB or some obese person who wants to be small… so evil… =D
I think the problem with guys who are skinny and think they eat big comes from not necessarily a volume issue but a frequency issue.
Most kids I’ve seen who claim they “eat big” eat more than the other kids at lunch… and that’s it. Maybe they’ll have some cheap gainer shake after they hit the gym. Take a hint from guys like Berardi and simply feed ALL DAY. Getting in a consistent stream of calories will aid you immensely.
Also, I’ve found there is a definite threshold of intensity you need to hit before you body starts producing muscle. I made my best gains when I knew next to nothing about T-Nation - I just copied the big guys in the gym. They lifted as heavy as they and treated each set as if it were their last.
EAT: eat alot of food, probly even more than you think you should eat. if your weight arent going up and your not weighing more your probly not eating enough
I think this one here is realkly hard for some people to understand. No, if you STILL weigh 150lbs after three months, no matter what you think, you aren’t eating enough.[/quote]
You’d give it that long?