How Useful is Pre-Exhaust Training?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
Do any serious bodybuilders use pre-exhaust training successfully and for what purpose? The way I see it, if the target muscle is fatigued you will lift less weight, that means less overload and less of the stimulation needed to achieve maximal size and strength. If you aren’t training for endurance why would anyone pre-exhaust a muscle?

Some trainers say to help them ‘feel’ the muscle, others just like a good pump from an isolation exercise that allows you to lift a very minimal amount of weight. Is there any other reason apart from, increasing the nervous system’s ability to recruit the muscle more efficiently since you are using it more? (Which is a point you can argue for any type of training)…[/quote]

Now that I think back on it, this whole original post is nonsensical in the first place.

Training for endurance? What endurance athlete uses pre-exhaust in the weight room? None.

What serious bodybuilder goes for a pump because he thinks it’s a cool idea or it feels good, even if they use pre-exhaust? None.

You wrote: “Is there any other reason apart from, increasing the nervous system’s ability to recruit the muscle more efficiently since you are using it more?”

We explained this, and you don’t give a shit for what we have to say and experience(d).

You wrote: " “(Which is a point you can argue for any type of training)…”

What the hell does this mean?

22

I’d also like you to show us examples of how drug-aided bodybuilders and natural bodybuiders train so differently, considering I know natural men that can survive workloads that would send me to the hospital and there are drug-aided men who use low volume training.

Most athletes, even high school ones, engage in 20 or more hours of activity per week, and most of them are not using high doses of drugs.

Explain.

23

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
thanks for the posts. I might try using them for my chest and see how it works out. I am a natural and sometimes I just think these methods are used by blokes on gear, who can get great results with any training program if they put the effort in.

Brick, I understand that maximal weights lifted aren’t the primary goal, only one possible way of increasing size, but for a natural gym rat I think more of an anabolic release comes from increasing on compounds and not lifting lighter weight on two different exercises completed in a pre-exhaust fashion. Yes you can increase in weight with these exercises, though the increases most of the time are a lot smaller than if you concentrated on a compound because more muscle groups are being used.

I understand the argument of “creating intramuscular pressure and innervation” which is basically saying that you are using a muscle. It can be argued for any training method that this is the case but whether it is a more effective training tool because of this reason, who knows…[/quote]

What a surprise. You just parroted back - almost verbatim - what I thought you’d say and what I hear people constantly saying about pre-exhaust. I hope you read my post in which I addressed this.

I’m a natural lifter myself who had awesome gains with pre-exhaust. And your view on roid use is flawed, because a method doesn’t just all of the sudden work so great because someone uses drugs. Drugs ENHANCE the effect someone would get without them, provided they know how to train and eat.

What is an anabolic release? If you’re referring to GH and T releases during exercises, those are TRANSIENT and NEGLIGIBLE.

You wrote, “I think…” twice.

Have fun thinking. [/quote]

Thats why I started the post, for a discussion about this method and to see what other t readers thought. Bonez, where have I written that I know a lot about training and all of the methods used? Guys, where have I written that I believe your posts are wrong. I am just telling you my thoughts…I thought that was clear by me using “I think”.

Natural lifters need to break through lifting plateaus in strength and size by doing exercises and methods that drug-users don’t need to do. For eg, I am natural and have trained along side drug-using blokes at my gym. They can consistently increase all of their lifts by staying in a 6-10, sometimes higher rep range. I believe natural lifters need to use more muscle groups and lift a lot heavier than the average steroid using gym rat.

Brick, you have had gains using pre-exhaust before thats all I wanted to know from yourself and other readers. What sort of pre-exhaust methods / exercises were you using. I searched the site for info on pre-exhaust but only found a thread in the beginners section that wasn’t very relevant. If there is more info could you paste links, I am not very good with using the search function on this site :S

24

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:
This is one of those training methods I never feel “advanced” enough to use, even after lifting more than 10 years. Maybe it works. I don’t know.

I agree with what you said in your first paragraph,I just feel like lifting heavier or doing a certain weight more times would be more beneficial. [/quote]

What does performing more reps in an exercise have to do with this? If someone performs bench presses and decide to do 15 reps rather than 6 to 8 reps, will this compensate for long arms and a small rib cage or the dominance of some muscle groups over others? [/quote]

You’re right that I should try it.
It’s just that there have been times that I’m reading up on some intensity techniques but by the time I get to the gym I just sort of continue doing the “plain” stuff. I mean I’ve never done box squats or board presses either.

25

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
Natural lifters need to break through lifting plateaus in strength and size by doing exercises and methods that drug-users don’t need to do. For eg, I am natural and have trained along side drug-using blokes at my gym. They can consistently increase all of their lifts by staying in a 6-10, sometimes higher rep range. I believe natural lifters need to use more muscle groups and lift a lot heavier than the average steroid using gym rat.
[/quote]

Dude, it has nothing to do with drugs or not, it’s just an individual thing. I’ve trained along side tons of ‘assisted’ lifters who use the same methods I do when things plateau. I think the whole “I’m natural” comment has gotten beaten to death and is now mostly used as an excuse, or self fulfilling prophecy. Go try this out, obviously you need to get creative if you’re not finding the gains you’re after.

S

26

I personally used low incline flye to low incline db press mainly because it’s a really quick transition dropping one set of db’s then picking up the other straight away. Also I liked flat flyes into decline bb press. While I couldn’t lift for as much weight after some experience using the technique when I went back to training with just the compound lift my weight went up 10% after having used pre exhaust for 4 weeks. It was a good plateau breaker and also put some meat on my chest. So in my experience it allowed me to grow using slightly less weight than I was used to and also busted a strength plateau in the process, and I’m a natural lifter.

I agree with Stu, I like to think that if you do your homework and train intelligently and with everything you’ve got, being natural shouldn’t be a limiting factor. There’s lots of natural guys out there with better programs, diets and bodies than many of the drug users out there. Too many natural guys use the I’m natural, genetics etc. excuse as a copout.

27

I’m doing away with the following because I see drug aided lifters use them.

squats
chinups
deadlifts
bench presses
rows
curls
tricep extensions
deadlifts
stretching
running
games I like to play on the side for fitness, FUN, and conditioning, like handball, softball, and racquetball
sprinting
cycling
3 to 4 sets of an exercise
1 to 20 reps in a set
dragging sleds

I’ve seen 'roid users do all of these. I’ve also seen them eat egg whites and chicken and fish and beef and oatmeal.

So I’m done with all of them because I think naturals should stay away from what 'roid users do.

28

I used this pre-exhaustion with great success for my quads and pecs. Even though it slightly reduces the weight that can be used for a compound lift (say, that I squat with 250 instead of 270 lbs) it forces you to recruit more that muscle that you want to train. (eg. whenever I pre-exhaust with leg extensions before squats, I feel it more in my quads than in my ass)

Over time it helped a lot to add mass to the thighs.

Furthermore I have seen couple of older guys, who had been under the knife countless times, that they rather pre-exhaust their chest with pec-dec, and then move onto benchning with higher reps. And they were advanced guys, just this type of training gave them the ability to stimulate their pecs without wrecking their shoulders further.

And I wont question a guy if he benches more for 12 reps than I squat for 10, even with his pecs pre-“exhausted”.

29

I also forgot to add that natural athletes and lifters should do away with plyos and speed work too.

30

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’m doing away with the following because I see drug aided lifters use them.

squats
chinups
deadlifts
bench presses
rows
curls
tricep extensions
deadlifts
stretching
running
games I like to play on the side for fitness, FUN, and conditioning, like handball, softball, and racquetball
sprinting
cycling
3 to 4 sets of an exercise
1 to 20 reps in a set
dragging sleds

I’ve seen 'roid users do all of these. I’ve also seen them eat egg whites and chicken and fish and beef and oatmeal.

So I’m done with all of them because I think naturals should stay away from what 'roid users do. [/quote]

i’ve heard that they also fuck their girlfriends…so it’s off the list too.

31

[quote]metal.head wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’m doing away with the following because I see drug aided lifters use them.

squats
chinups
deadlifts
bench presses
rows
curls
tricep extensions
deadlifts
stretching
running
games I like to play on the side for fitness, FUN, and conditioning, like handball, softball, and racquetball
sprinting
cycling
3 to 4 sets of an exercise
1 to 20 reps in a set
dragging sleds

I’ve seen 'roid users do all of these. I’ve also seen them eat egg whites and chicken and fish and beef and oatmeal.

So I’m done with all of them because I think naturals should stay away from what 'roid users do. [/quote]

i’ve heard that they also fuck their girlfriends…so it’s off the list too.
[/quote]

Not with those shrunken peeenizes they dont

32

What do you guys think of using pre-exhaust as a weaker, less experienced trainee?
I bench about 180 RM, lol- im working on it, but most of the time i dont feel the work being done by my pecs, my delts seem to take most the work, so pre-exhaust would be a possible fix, but im just wondering if its a more advanced technique that should be saved when i can actually lift some better numbers ?
Thanks.

33

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]metal.head wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’m doing away with the following because I see drug aided lifters use them.

squats
chinups
deadlifts
bench presses
rows
curls
tricep extensions
deadlifts
stretching
running
games I like to play on the side for fitness, FUN, and conditioning, like handball, softball, and racquetball
sprinting
cycling
3 to 4 sets of an exercise
1 to 20 reps in a set
dragging sleds

I’ve seen 'roid users do all of these. I’ve also seen them eat egg whites and chicken and fish and beef and oatmeal.

So I’m done with all of them because I think naturals should stay away from what 'roid users do. [/quote]

i’ve heard that they also fuck their girlfriends…so it’s off the list too.
[/quote]

Not with those shrunken peeenizes they dont[/quote]

right. they actually dont fuck at all, they just rrrrrraaaaaagggggggeeeeeee

34

[quote]kaoticz wrote:
What do you guys think of using pre-exhaust as a weaker, less experienced trainee?
I bench about 180 RM, lol- im working on it, but most of the time i dont feel the work being done by my pecs, my delts seem to take most the work, so pre-exhaust would be a possible fix, but im just wondering if its a more advanced technique that should be saved when i can actually lift some better numbers ?
Thanks.[/quote]

How weak and inexperienced are you? I mean, are you big and experienced enough to know what your weaknesses are? If someone is carrying little muscle mass, it’s hard to tell what their weaknesses are or what they’re going to be.

However, isolation exercises are to be used from day one with beginning bodybuilders, and it’s not a problem if you place them in front of a compound exercise if you don’t feel it in the target muscle. If you truly don’t feel it in your pecs, most likely your pecs are going to be an aesthetic weakness.

I had the same exact problem with pecs from day one. Never felt shit in my pecs.

Keep in mind that to get a big chest, you must also take back exercise seriously as well. It’s not all about pressing. If you get stronger in horizontal pulling aka rowing exercises, you’ll open up your posture so your pecs have room to grow. Plus having more back mass makes bench pressing much easier.

35

[quote]Beara33 wrote:

I agree with Stu, I like to think that if you do your homework and train intelligently and with everything you’ve got, being natural shouldn’t be a limiting factor. There’s lots of natural guys out there with better programs, diets and bodies than many of the drug users out there. Too many natural guys use the I’m natural, genetics etc. excuse as a copout.[/quote]

A-FUCKING-MEN!

36

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:

I understand the argument of “creating intramuscular pressure and innervation” which is basically saying that you are using a muscle. It can be argued for any training method that this is the case but whether it is a more effective training tool because of this reason, who knows…[/quote]

Apparently you don’t understand.

And I’ll tell you who knows it’s effective for bringing up lagging muscle groups…

The people who’ve had success with it.

Nice try, genius.

37

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]kaoticz wrote:
What do you guys think of using pre-exhaust as a weaker, less experienced trainee?
I bench about 180 RM, lol- im working on it, but most of the time i dont feel the work being done by my pecs, my delts seem to take most the work, so pre-exhaust would be a possible fix, but im just wondering if its a more advanced technique that should be saved when i can actually lift some better numbers ?
Thanks.[/quote]

How weak and inexperienced are you? I mean, are you big and experienced enough to know what your weaknesses are? If someone is carrying little muscle mass, it’s hard to tell what their weaknesses are or what they’re going to be.

However, isolation exercises are to be used from day one with beginning bodybuilders, and it’s not a problem if you place them in front of a compound exercise if you don’t feel it in the target muscle. If you truly don’t feel it in your pecs, most likely your pecs are going to be an aesthetic weakness.

I had the same exact problem with pecs from day one. Never felt shit in my pecs.

Keep in mind that to get a big chest, you must also take back exercise seriously as well. It’s not all about pressing. If you get stronger in horizontal pulling aka rowing exercises, you’ll open up your posture so your pecs have room to grow. Plus having more back mass makes bench pressing much easier. [/quote]

Well, my bodyweight is only around 155-160 and im 17 yrs old.I feel that my pecs are “lagging” compared to the rest of my upperbody,my front delts dominate pretty much every movement lol. I know this sounds like a joke because im only in the 150’s -lol but that just how i see it.

Anyway im only asking because I’ve tried searching info on pre exhaust training but it mostly is asocciated with “advanced bodybuilders” but i thought that it would be smarter to correct this imbalance first or atleast prevent it from happening. Most of the threads here and on other forums that are titled something like “lagging chest” with a 150lb thread starter get laughed at and told to just gain weight/increase strenght, but i dont see that as a fix if i dont feel it in the pecs , im just gnna increase my weight and sitll have the same imbalnce. lol, but at the same time i feel stupid trying all these so called “advanced” bodybuilding techniques with my lifting numbers/bodyweight.

Thanks for the advice on back training, i train my back just as frequently as my chest and try to progress etc. so ill keep at it!

38

I think youre still too new at this to be able to decide if you need to preexhaust. As you gain more experience you’ll know when the time is right. Youre plenty young. Just focus on getting bigger and stronger the old fashioned way. Adding too many variables too sooncan make things confusing.

39

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’m doing away with the following because I see drug aided lifters use them.

squats
chinups
deadlifts
bench presses
rows
curls
tricep extensions
deadlifts
stretching
running
games I like to play on the side for fitness, FUN, and conditioning, like handball, softball, and racquetball
sprinting
cycling
3 to 4 sets of an exercise
1 to 20 reps in a set
dragging sleds

I’ve seen 'roid users do all of these. I’ve also seen them eat egg whites and chicken and fish and beef and oatmeal.

So I’m done with all of them because I think naturals should stay away from what 'roid users do. [/quote]

Damn, you got this whole “Socratic Irony” thing down to a T!

Get it, T?