[quote]Ski_USMC wrote:
Also what do you guys think of swimming for conditioning? I know it can build some ridiculous cardio, but would it be too technical to obtain the same benefit out of it as other conditioning circuits?[/quote]
There’s at least one fighter(boxer) who does swimming instead of running because it’s not so ahrd on the joints - Juan Diaz. He also uses the stairmaster. I think he’s unique among boxers in that he doesn’t run at all.
1 week out from my next fight. I’ll admit over the past few weeks I haven’t even touched weights, except 1 5/3/1 session about 4 days ago, and some recreational lifting with a few mates a weekend or two ago.
Should I continue not strength training for this week and just focus on proper recovery and skillwork? Or should I just shovel in some more food and bump on some sessions?
This should be a deload both from sparring and Strength and conditioning work.
you should be doing some skill work, pretty much every day, but nothing either full speed
or too intensive and yes focus on recovery , relaxing, mental prep, etc.
but thats’ just me.
kmc
Hey guys
just joined, read over this thread and appreciate all the help.
I need help on two areas: weight training and nutrition.
Currently a 165lb aspiring fighter. I have had several amateur fights but felt like my weight training was never good (I was trained by my cousin who used Waterbury programs). I came here for some serious redirection on that regard. I train at a very old school gym with a former professional thai boxer and I am very satisfied with my technique training.
3 days a week we spar and work the pads, and on those same 3 days I train BJJ with another guy who works at the gym (I hate to do it on the same day but that’s just how my schedule works, I work full time). On Friday, Sunday and Tuesday I have around 2 hours for weight training.
I have read the Concurrent strategies link and am curious as to whether you guys think it’s better to make a program out of that or to use a book I recently purchased by Mark Rippetoe: Starting Strength. I really need to make a boost in strength and I would also like to put on 5 to 10 pounds (I fight at 155 but have never had trouble cutting weight because of my high school wrestling days).
I have grown fond of training total body since doing Waterbury workouts, and so I wouldn’t mind doing three days of Total body from the Concurrent training strategies (which seems much more intense than Waterbury!) But some help from experienced lifters on deciding between these two sources (concurrent strat and mark rippetoe) would be great.
Secondly, I have a few concerns related to nutrition. The one thing I really liked about Waterbury was his diets, they helped to get me in better shape and feel better in general. Currently my diet looks like:
Breakfast:
20 g protein source (Eggs typically)
2 servings thick rolled oats
1 carrot
Snack:
1-2 handful raw nuts
Lunch:
Buffalo, chicken, or salmon
vegetables
Snack:
Low fat cottage cheese
fruit
Dinner:
Buffalo, chicken, or salmon
vegetables
wheat roll with some butter (casual cheat)
Before bed:
Casein protein shake
I am very strict and only cheat once every 3-4 weeks. I know many fighters have the urge to cheat once a week but I don’t really have a problem eating healthy. On training days I eat a banana and protein powder before workout and syntha-6 protein with skim milk afterwards. I am concerned about the high sugar levels in the skim milk in my post-workout and before bed shakes, so I have considered drinking the protein with water and dropping the before bed shake.
however, i feel the latter is a necessary part of my diet because it helps me stay full during the night and even with it i wake up with very irritating empty-stomach aches that are cleared only with the protein in the morning.
Any feedback on what you think I should do or edits to my diet would be great. For the record I am 3-1 in amateur fights and fight mostly for the fun of it. I would like to get somewhere one day but if I don’t I would still be happy brawling.
[quote]ovencover33 wrote:
Hey guys
just joined, read over this thread and appreciate all the help.
I need help on two areas: weight training and nutrition.
Currently a 165lb aspiring fighter. I have had several amateur fights but felt like my weight training was never good (I was trained by my cousin who used Waterbury programs). I came here for some serious redirection on that regard. I train at a very old school gym with a former professional thai boxer and I am very satisfied with my technique training.
3 days a week we spar and work the pads, and on those same 3 days I train BJJ with another guy who works at the gym (I hate to do it on the same day but that’s just how my schedule works, I work full time). On Friday, Sunday and Tuesday I have around 2 hours for weight training.
I have read the Concurrent strategies link and am curious as to whether you guys think it’s better to make a program out of that or to use a book I recently purchased by Mark Rippetoe: Starting Strength. I really need to make a boost in strength and I would also like to put on 5 to 10 pounds (I fight at 155 but have never had trouble cutting weight because of my high school wrestling days).
I have grown fond of training total body since doing Waterbury workouts, and so I wouldn’t mind doing three days of Total body from the Concurrent training strategies (which seems much more intense than Waterbury!) But some help from experienced lifters on deciding between these two sources (concurrent strat and mark rippetoe) would be great.
Secondly, I have a few concerns related to nutrition. The one thing I really liked about Waterbury was his diets, they helped to get me in better shape and feel better in general. Currently my diet looks like:
Breakfast:
20 g protein source (Eggs typically)
2 servings thick rolled oats
1 carrot
Snack:
1-2 handful raw nuts
Lunch:
Buffalo, chicken, or salmon
vegetables
Snack:
Low fat cottage cheese
fruit
Dinner:
Buffalo, chicken, or salmon
vegetables
wheat roll with some butter (casual cheat)
Before bed:
Casein protein shake
I am very strict and only cheat once every 3-4 weeks. I know many fighters have the urge to cheat once a week but I don’t really have a problem eating healthy. On training days I eat a banana and protein powder before workout and syntha-6 protein with skim milk afterwards. I am concerned about the high sugar levels in the skim milk in my post-workout and before bed shakes, so I have considered drinking the protein with water and dropping the before bed shake.
however, i feel the latter is a necessary part of my diet because it helps me stay full during the night and even with it i wake up with very irritating empty-stomach aches that are cleared only with the protein in the morning.
Any feedback on what you think I should do or edits to my diet would be great. For the record I am 3-1 in amateur fights and fight mostly for the fun of it. I would like to get somewhere one day but if I don’t I would still be happy brawling. [/quote]
Wow long quote, but yeah you’re doing farely well for being so new to the game. No joke this is well worked and your on the right path. Its a common misconception that protien is just for building muscle, it is in fact a sorce of energy just like fat and carbohydrates. So load up on protien, lo-gi carbs, and tons of healthy fats (omegas,ect) a deit consistent of these will keep body fat low & pack on pounds of muscle cause everythings being used instead of being stored as fat. As for the protien shake with milk after workout is fine the sugar is actually a plus cause it spikes insulin into storing glycogen wich you need after workout cause muscle tissue wont rebuild without glycogen and protien. As for bed i do the same thing water and protien its not as thick and complicated to digest and the sugar before bed will complicate sleep. Thats all the facts i can give but ill say one thing from personal experience that milk and protien before bed for me is just a colon clense in the morning 
page fucked up
Just to clarify something that’s been eating at me…
Can you still effectively build muscle with low volume programs? I need to move up in weight for my next fight, but from what I understand high volume/hypertrophy specific programs are bad for other atheltic qualities and recovery…
Any recommendations on programs for a boxer who has to gain weight, but keep or increase athletic qualities, as well as skill work?
Davo
WSFSB III
check joe defranco’s website he has a program for inseason athletes.
its solid.
kmc
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
Davo
WSFSB III
check joe defranco’s website he has a program for inseason athletes.
its solid.
kmc[/quote]
Thanks mate, downloaded the PDF.
Use any program as a guideline and tweak it to your needs. Online programs do not work for everyone, and sometimes may be too much or too little depending on the athlete. Use progression in some sense, obey Seyle’s Law, and don’t skimp on training your stabilizer muscles 1-2x a week.
A big thing is to never skimp on conditioning. You can be strong as an ox, but if you can’t last more than 2 rounds in the ring, your going to get slaughtered. While maybe not as big of a deal in offseason, make sure your program focuses more on conditioning during pre and in season training. Fighers who have highe work capacity than their opponent are more likely to win.
Hello!
I was thinking of getting into MMA but I have no previous experience at all from fighting or any other sports for that matter. I’m 6’5" and really long limbed, 20yo.
Here are some things that concern me:
Balance and my lack of it. Are there any specific exercises that are really good or should I just do everything that is challenging? With this I mean stuff that I can do at home etc.
Jumping right into MMA without any experience of a specific martial art like BJJ or kickboxing etc. Do you think its better to learn different arts separately before I start mixing shit up?
[quote]Tomachicken wrote:
Ski_USMC wrote:
Also what do you guys think of swimming for conditioning? I know it can build some ridiculous cardio, but would it be too technical to obtain the same benefit out of it as other conditioning circuits?
There’s at least one fighter(boxer) who does swimming instead of running because it’s not so ahrd on the joints - Juan Diaz. He also uses the stairmaster. I think he’s unique among boxers in that he doesn’t run at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Díaz_(boxer)[/quote]
boxing is definitely one of the sports where they take “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” to heart. a lot of trainers think that if you lift weights you’re going to gain 5 pounds a week and lose all your hand speed LOL.
Obviously there are plenty of discussions about MMA conditioning or strength work on here, but I just recently found this site called www.ultimatechallengetraining.com that has some incredible workouts for MMA. The shit is crazy hard, but I’ve been using some of it for a couple of weeks and I feel SOOOOO much better. Basically, they have stuff that mixes cardio and strength work and beats your ass. Never done anything like this. It’s not like CrossFit either. I’m hooked
Well, I’m done for the year fight wise, no more fights till next year so it seems. I can now focus on vanity related shit instead of performance shit.
So what’s up combat forums, I’m officially in off-season, summer coming (southern hemisphere, we got summer while you guys have winter), should I shovel down the food and try to pack on some muscle or should I just get crazy lean?
Decide for me lol.
All my training is designed for 2 reasons: First - some day i might become personal strength & conditionng coach myself.
Second goal - Martial Arts. Striking Martial Arts for now.
I have many reasons to train Martial Arts. I don’t have any desire to be pro someday. But i wanna train to the level of these guys. Really high-level training. And.. Who knows?
—About Me—
ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs Me is in the middle (red shirt)
Okay. Basicly - I’m intrested in specifying my training for MA.
I’m 6"4’ (195cm tall). I weight about 220pounds (100kg). I’m 16yrs old. I’m about 10-12% bodyfat.
A year and a half ago i started some Karate Kyokushin. I’ve lasted 6months. I decided to use my summer for GPP and then switch to Muay Thai.
I’ve started Weight training about less than a year ago. At fist i was just “trying” to manage the technique of the basic lifts.
For about 5-6 months i’ve trained heavy.
—Training—
I’m doing Magnificent Mobility drills every day (Eric Cressey & Robertson’s DVD). Sometimes twice a day (once after school). I try to go to bathroom every class (in the half-time) so i can sustain my mobility.
My warm-up consists of: 1.Foam Roller; 2.Mobility (dynamic); 3. Jump Rope; 4. Ballistic Squats (sometimes)
So far my weight-training consisted: Military Press; Deadlift; Squat (parallel); Weighted Push-ups; Pull-ups (hitting the bar with my chest); Rows (primarly dumpbell plus some barbell); Evil Wheel (Ab roller) from feet to wall (not full extension) and then hitting back; Some Dips; Some Lunges; Some GHR; Some Palof-presses; Some Stability ball push-ups;
I’m working like this: 1 month Pure Strenght (mostly 5x5 for as much weight as possible) - then 1 month i train with 60-70% - 5x5 for as much speed as possible. In the second block i hit some ballistic push-ups/squats/exercises + some power cleans with low weight (40-50kg). 3 weeks heavy training - 1 week of 50%.
So far i’ve trained 3 times a week - 25reps for workout per system (a.k.a pushing; pulling; squatting etc.) - whole body. Which makes about 80reps per week for every movement-system.
So my deadlift so far is: 165kg with supinated grip (no straps, no belt) - i did it right after i pulled 160 with neutral grip. I could do more, but i had to play it smart that day.
My squat - 140kg - 5reps.
My military press - 50kg for 5 reps.
My push-ups - 30kg weight plates on my back - 5 reps
—Weekly Plan—
Now i’m into this: I’m going back into training Muay Thai.
I’m currently hitting Volleyball training 1 week. I have PE - so i play 2 more times (it’s not too hard, but i always play at max effort).
I’m having 1 training of Plyometrics - Vertical Jump Bible’s Novice program.
I’m going to have 2 times per week of Muay Thai.
I plan on doing 2 times Weight training - whole body - about 25-30reps per system - plus once a week after the weight training - some complexes.
—Food—
I’m on Low-Carb Hight Fat diet. I eat as much as i like. Which in most cases (daily) is:
200-250gr Butter; 0,7-1kg meat; 8-10eggs; 4-5 Tomatoes; Some White Cheese; some Wallnuts (not more that 100gr, usually about 50); 2-3 apples and sometimes - about half of a slice of bread.
I haven’t used any supplements so far but i plan on using Biotest’s Creatine Monohydrate.
I use some bananas+milk (liquid - with mixer) - before and during weight traning.
I might do the same for MA. Cuz as far as i’ve heard - really low carbs and martial arts aren’t best buddies.
—Questions—
Soooo… I want some advices on any aspect of specific training i can add. I plan on byuing Med ball. So far - i have no money for it.
I also would like to ask about this - what’s the best basic lift that i can use to enhance my Push. I’ve stopped doing Bench Press cuz i don’t hit my opponent with my scapula tight on my back. I’m doing weighted push-ups and military presses instead. And some weighted dips from time to time. Is it a wise choice? I recently found that i can do 2reps of one-handed push-ups each hand. Maybe i should do these?
Also - Some Core advices. I really like palof press and renegade row for anti-rotation. I don’t wanna do cruches cuz i don’t know how to balance them in order to maintain good body composture. Also - i like my back.
But i’ve found from Crosgrove that fighters need to have amazingly strong core in all movements.
I’m open for ideas.
I will talk with my trainer to cut off the 100-150 push-ups per training and do something else instead.
I’m thinking about planks or the exercise where you’re lying with your back on the floor. Hands under lower-back to maintain proper arch. Legs go up & down - core need to stabilize and not move.
Thank you.
Mitizaro -
Some exercises you can try out that I like. Like all things these aren’t for everybody but give them a shot and you may like a few.
Great for core and punches is doing 1-armed dumbbell presses on flat bench, incline, or decline. Now because it’s 1 armed doesn’t mean to go light. Go as heavy as you can take it and put your non holding hand onto the opposite pec. Focus not just on lifting but lifting towards the solar plexus. This also works the core a good bit for balance.
Cable or band pushes standing up. Take a wide stance and again cross the non pushing arm onto your opposite pec. (This can be replaced with a medicine ball if you do get one)
Laying cable pull overs. I’m really not sure the correct name but lay down and keeping arms straight pull from behind your head towards your waist. This works your entire upper body including core a good bit.
I don’t recall which author wrote it on an article here but another good exercise for dynamic strength and building size if you do it before other pushing movements is to do stiff arm push-up jumps. I don’t remember the name he gave it but essentially do a push-up but force yourself off the ground. Keep your arms completely straight though and try to focus on getting higher off the ground.
Burpees
There was a recent article about core exercises that gave 3 good ones, one that was new to me and feels really good. Do Pull-ups focusing on pushing yourself away from the bar as you descend. You should also try to lean back keep straight as if you were developing a front lever, this will really hit your lower abs.
As for the rest of what you’re doing it seems to lack focus. If your goal is to being a striker you should focus more on that and less on deadlifts, squats, and power cleans. Even your weight is not as important.
Try for example doing squats and then doing 20 roundhouse kicks as fast as you can then switch legs and do another 20. Then do your next set of squats and repeat. You do enough heavy lifting with a high heart rate and you should have a great core already. One problem may be the milk, butter, and cheese. Should also eat some fish which is very lean protein and healthy fats. If you’re not eating fish definitely take fish oil capsules.
kind of a rant.
I think lifting is great for fighting, but alot of people over do it. The number one thing that makes my power and speed increase is repetition in the air and on the bag. You want buakaw like kicks? Throw 1000 round kicks a day on pads/bag for a year and then come back to this thread.
When i started training a long time ago I had a tall wiry friend, naturally built for kicking. Me im a shorter stock kind of guy, i couldnt kick to save my ass. I started working kicks 2 hrs a day for the next 4-6 months and shot past alot of more advanced guys in terms of speed and power.
I dont compete in boxing anymore, but im a much much better boxer now that I do a TON more shadowboxing work. Speed, power, fluidity…everything…
A friend of mine started out at like 5’4 250 lbs. Now he is a 145lb 2-0 mma fighter with numerous grappling titles. Most people in western pa know him. His training is pretty much ALL martial arts, this guy would just grapple for hours a day…for the past few years… and he is always in great shape and one of the best tacticians I have ever met.
I also think its very en vogue to neglect aerobic training in favor of higher intensity stuff. I have always fought best when I was doing longer runs and really training my aerobic system than when i did pure high intensity drills.
Know the demands of your sport because the energy systems, strength required…etc is going to be different from sport karate, muay thai, mma, boxing , badmiton etc.
I cant count the number of times though i would see threads on sherdog like “how do i improve my punching power” and people would post stuff like turkish getups…plyo routines etc…but really unless you are a pro, and a seasoned one, working endless and endless technique is what will give you that. Most thai boxers in thailand do just that, hours of technique (well, its also conditioning in that)
Long story short, with abilities such as punching, takedowns…kicks…you are going to get out of those techniques what you put in to practicing them in terms of hours…and years…and everything else is ACCESSORY.
Now for some inspiration go read about Mas Oyamas (founder of kyokushin) training and what he did to make himself better. Ditto for Kimura during the heydey of judo…
about the FIND A GOOD SCHOOL THAT TURNS OUT PROS AND START TRAINING THERE…umm well alot of those schools dont pay attention to most of the students they have. Unless your the next up n comer they wont pay much attention to you and youl prob end up sitting in a group class doing arm bars with a partner while the teacher is on the other side of the room…
and usualy its the assistant or a top level student that teaches the classes at the top gyms…my advice is find a good quality gym that has an instructor with a good resume and that actually cares about all his students learning…
id start there and youll end up building a great relationship and learning alot faster. Then once you get to a certain level you can go to the TOP gyms and spar and take extra training…thats just the way it worked out for me here in Az…
I’ve searched through some of the thread, but was figuring I’d probably just get a better response if I just posted 
Anyways, what do you guys recommend as far as scheduling/programming for me? I’m planning on continuing doing my skill work (Jiu-Jitsu and Muay Thai) MWF (from about 9 or 10 until 12), and trying to do strength/speed work on TThS (about 1 hr of lifting, followed by 30 mins of sprints or plyos).
I was doing a total body program (Chad Waterbury’s) but not sure if I should stick with it? Goal wise I’m trying maintain strength (or hopefully even build a little) and lean up about 10 lbs. Right now I’m about 175ish (which is pretty skinny) but I’ve done really well at tournaments being taller in such light classes. Diet wise I’ve been about 90% paleo.
you are trying to do too much at once. Gain weight, cardio, speed strength… Periodize dude. One thing at a time.
