Exactly this!
We keep macros, intake, average daily expenditure, and after some consecutive days, the body seems to tell us something like ‘ok, you won this time’ lol…
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Thank you lord, for your words.
IMO obese people have some ‘advantages’ in the fat loss scenario. They can active the 40,000 kcal (much more than this) energy tank they have available to be spent by some carb-restricted strategy, such as keto, PSMF, and others. Of course, this is one way and it is highly associated with individual choices and preferences. One example that carbohydrates do not have to be restricted is the famous rice diet experiment[1]. Problem is total intake must be reduced to the so called VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diet) which is 800 kcal or below!
Rice Diet: 379 days under 800 kcal, from 212.3 kg (467 lb) to 85.9 (189 lb)…
My problem: I think I cannot deal with this range. There are other studies, with ~50% carbs, but all of them requires the VLCD range.
So I did chose the LCD (Low Calorie Diet) range which is at my current range: 1500-2000 kcal.
The main question could be: do I need mental effort to keep this LCD range? At a certain level, no. How? Through P:E[2] leverage concept. I keep the protein intake at my maximum (for my bro-concept of maximum protein intake), always between 2.3 and 2.4 g/kgIB* (or 1.0 and 1.1 g/lb). The math of this concept is basically this:
Weight loss is expected keeping this number above 1.1
Radicals put it in the 2.0 region
People can use an url[3] to do this math and show graphic how close they are from a weightloss range.
I, brownbear, keep this ratio above 1.50 and, as I will never leave thermodinamics, I do restrict my total intake up to 2000 kcal.
Theory behind the protein leverage hypothesis is that we eat until reach the total protein needed in a daily basis. So, if we eat food that is poor in protein, we eat more of it until reach the total expected. This hypothesis is not new[4], some research was done, and Ted Naimann proposed this mechanism (the formula above) to manage weightloss, and quality of life.
At a first moment I hated this book[2] because the second author is a former powerange! He is an actor… the book does not bring references, does not clearly assume that caloric deficit is necessary, and try to be ‘all in’ book (concept, macros, etc, preaching, meal examples, and exercises…). Another problem: the formula! How can we just do math with different energy macros? Ted Naimann explained on reddit[5], and I understood that is for practical terms. But, my God… it is working. Humble to say. This shit is working.
Caloric deficit emerges as a consequence if we consider our usual limits of maximum daily protein intake. Authors do not say directly this in the book.
But I think this P:E concept needs to be managed with caution. Lean, radical, 10-20 lb overweight people can be attempted to keep a P:E of 2.0 and begin to feel problems that history already told us and coined the term rabbit starvation[6].
Well, this is one part of my diet. So, all those symptoms you described I am not felling. There are some other requisites that are more specific to my issues, such as type diabetes that deserve another chapter…lol
ps: I mentioned ‘at a certain level, no’. I can keep the diet, but I traded hanger for desire… desire for junk food. It is here, with me, probably till the end of my days.
*kilograms of Ideal Bodyweight: everyday I have one measurement that corresponds to my expected bodyweight at 12% of bodyfat. This is the metric I use.
[1] doi:10.1001/archinte.1975.00330120053008 (sci hub…???)
[2] https://www.amazon.com.br/PE-Diet-Leverage-biology-achieve-ebook/dp/B07ZC8XBGG
[3] http://www.ptoer.com
[4] https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1467-789x.2005.00178.x (sci hub…???)
[5] Interview with Dr. Ted Naiman - The P: E Diet Book - "Leverage Your Body to Achieve Optimal Health" | Ketogains
[6] Protein poisoning - Wikipedia
Week #1
Day #01/42: 135.1 kg (297.2 lb) - 2021/01/25
Day #02/42: 134.6 kg (296.1 lb) - 2021/01/26
Day #03/42: 134.3 kg (295.5 lb) - 2021/01/27
Day #04/42: 133.6 kg (294.9 lb) - 2021/01/28
Day #05/42: 132.5 kg (291.5 lb) - 2021/01/29
Day #06/42: 131.7 kg (289.7 lb) - 2021/01/30
Day #07/42: 130.5 kg (287.1 lb) - 2021/01/31
Week #2
Day #08/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/01
Day #09/42: 131.1 kg (288.4 lb) - 2021/02/02
Day #10/42: 130.8 kg (287.8 lb) - 2021/02/03
Day #11/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/04
Day #12/42: 130.6 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/05
Day #13/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/06
Day #14/42: 130.1 kg (286.2 lb) - 2021/02/07
Week #3
Day #15/42: 131.2 kg (288.6 lb) - 2021/02/08
Day #16/42: 130.6 kg (287.3 lb) - 2021/02/09
Day #17/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/10
Day #18/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/11
Day #19/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/12
Day #20/42: 129.3 kg (284.5 lb) - 2021/02/13
Day #21/42: 129.0 kg (283.8 lb) - 2021/02/14
–//–
Day #21. I promised to show some data. Here they are.
How much I eat and what happens with my bodyweight:
Protein to Energy Ratio (P:E ratio, if you don’t what this is, please check my previous post)
And my goal, which is the usual docs prescribe: ‘to lose 10% of initial bodyweight in less than 3 months’. As I said in a previous post, don’t remember what was it, I am not expecting to lose such amount in these 42-day period. But, I think I will reach such goal in less than two months.
That’s all folks
Have a nice Sunday and a happy week.
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I believed this a long time ago, but it doesn’t make sense to me after thinking it through. I think it only makes sense in a surplus. The energy is then supplied and the body only needs protein, so you eat until you reach that. But in a deficit it doesn’t as energy supply isn’t met. Also in a surplus there seems to be a low threshold for “enough protein”. I guess I’m just not convinced anymore.
I think you would lose weight on any diet with kcals this low. I think your approach is a very fast one, but also harsh.
That’s weird I think. I did Keto and VLCD combined (kind of like you do here) a few years ago and I had all these symptoms even more extreme than now. Granted I didn’t hold much body fat then.
I think there in lies the biggest difference between our diets. You said it above, if you got enough body fat especially so much that it creates health problems, you got a big energy store with you. That probably blunts some of the symptoms of a diet when you are already lean and getting leaner.
These case studies are crazy. But I guess that’s the best way to just get lean in the shortest time possible. Suffering one year instead of many.
I know a woman, she’s 100 kg on 5’7’’ and claims to eat 600 kcals a day and doesn’t lose weight. I don’t believe a word of her average daily intake.
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Here’s my data. I can’t export the kcal data but I started out with 2700 kcals and then after 3 weeks decreased to 2500 kcals and then after 2 weeks decreased to 2400 kcals.
Protein is >180 g while carbs are usually over 220 g. Rest is fat.
Body fat is measured by 3 methods. Scale, which can only measure legs, then 3-point-caliper and army-method of waist to neck ratio.
The only accurate method I think here is caliper as it fits the visual impression I have of my BF (biaaass). I have a nearly full six pack right now and can’t grab a lot of fat at my belly. It is highly unlikely that I’m at 18-22 %. But that’s what the scale says, so I believe the caliper. I think I’m between 12-15% now and rather on the low side of that so 12-13%.
As you can see, the trend line in the weight diagram puts the end of my diet circa at the day where I’m planning to end it.
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Entering in ketosis or at least living inside such state during majority of the day is one reason, I think, that brings me this ‘peace’ feeling. My ‘fat tank’ is very generous. Yesterday I did a measurement to check if ketosis was above 0.5 mmol/L.
But, yes, that’s not a general rule for obese people. But this s**t gives rare moments of peace for someone.
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Pretty good plan! I’ve also saw these 2/3-week period to decrease the same amount of total intake in some studies.
I am not a keto-fundamentalist-preacher. One of my plans is to enjoy regular, carb-fuelled meals, such as yours. But it all depends of future results. I will need to gradually add some food during a month, and check HOMA-IR periodically to reach my carb intake threshold.
220 g of carbs… dreaming here for a moment…
This!
People with less BF can perfectly check by caliper/grab belly/mirror.
I have one here (cheap, plastic…old times…).
In old times I took my daughter to check Pollock-7, but she didn’t stop to mocking me. At that times I changed to 3-measurements too.
Congratulations by your cutting plan and partial results!
1 Like
Week #1
Day #01/42: 135.1 kg (297.2 lb) - 2021/01/25
Day #02/42: 134.6 kg (296.1 lb) - 2021/01/26
Day #03/42: 134.3 kg (295.5 lb) - 2021/01/27
Day #04/42: 133.6 kg (294.9 lb) - 2021/01/28
Day #05/42: 132.5 kg (291.5 lb) - 2021/01/29
Day #06/42: 131.7 kg (289.7 lb) - 2021/01/30
Day #07/42: 130.5 kg (287.1 lb) - 2021/01/31
Week #2
Day #08/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/01
Day #09/42: 131.1 kg (288.4 lb) - 2021/02/02
Day #10/42: 130.8 kg (287.8 lb) - 2021/02/03
Day #11/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/04
Day #12/42: 130.6 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/05
Day #13/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/06
Day #14/42: 130.1 kg (286.2 lb) - 2021/02/07
Week #3
Day #15/42: 131.2 kg (288.6 lb) - 2021/02/08
Day #16/42: 130.6 kg (287.3 lb) - 2021/02/09
Day #17/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/10
Day #18/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/11
Day #19/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/12
Day #20/42: 129.3 kg (284.5 lb) - 2021/02/13
Day #21/42: 129.0 kg (283.8 lb) - 2021/02/14
Week #4
Day #22/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/15
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Don’t show this to your doctor if you’re diabetic, he might think you are going into ketoacidosis haha! Just kidding obviously
I just decreased when fat loss wasn’t fast enough and I got impatient, but I’ve also seen this as a method and I guess it works. Paul carter and other wrote articles about that. Just decrease when it stops working, thought I’d give it a try instead of starting out very low like I always did before. I like it this way.
You’ll be there in no time my man! When your body starts handling sugar better, you’ll have no problem dieting that way.
Thanks @brownbear1968!
Your results seem really great too. You are losing weight even faster than me. We said we’ll push through and we will.
1 Like
My scale puts me at like 21% lol. One of the trainers did caliper test twice and averaged the results at 11%. I am not naïve enough to believe 11%, so I averaged the two techniques together (16%).
I think the scales run off of an algorithm that is designed for normalish people. If you are approaching a good FFMI score it will put you at a high body fat as it doesn’t account for people outside of normal muscularity. Would probably say Arnold in contest condition was 20+% just due to his bodyweight being so high.
I did the same above (red dots). 15 I think is still too high. I think 13% is more accurate.
That makes sense. Thank for chiming in
1 Like
Week #1
Day #01/42: 135.1 kg (297.2 lb) - 2021/01/25
Day #02/42: 134.6 kg (296.1 lb) - 2021/01/26
Day #03/42: 134.3 kg (295.5 lb) - 2021/01/27
Day #04/42: 133.6 kg (294.9 lb) - 2021/01/28
Day #05/42: 132.5 kg (291.5 lb) - 2021/01/29
Day #06/42: 131.7 kg (289.7 lb) - 2021/01/30
Day #07/42: 130.5 kg (287.1 lb) - 2021/01/31
Week #2
Day #08/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/01
Day #09/42: 131.1 kg (288.4 lb) - 2021/02/02
Day #10/42: 130.8 kg (287.8 lb) - 2021/02/03
Day #11/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/04
Day #12/42: 130.6 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/05
Day #13/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/06
Day #14/42: 130.1 kg (286.2 lb) - 2021/02/07
Week #3
Day #15/42: 131.2 kg (288.6 lb) - 2021/02/08
Day #16/42: 130.6 kg (287.3 lb) - 2021/02/09
Day #17/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/10
Day #18/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/11
Day #19/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/12
Day #20/42: 129.3 kg (284.5 lb) - 2021/02/13
Day #21/42: 129.0 kg (283.8 lb) - 2021/02/14
Week #4
Day #22/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/15
Day #23/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/16
Week #1
Day #01/42: 135.1 kg (297.2 lb) - 2021/01/25
Day #02/42: 134.6 kg (296.1 lb) - 2021/01/26
Day #03/42: 134.3 kg (295.5 lb) - 2021/01/27
Day #04/42: 133.6 kg (294.9 lb) - 2021/01/28
Day #05/42: 132.5 kg (291.5 lb) - 2021/01/29
Day #06/42: 131.7 kg (289.7 lb) - 2021/01/30
Day #07/42: 130.5 kg (287.1 lb) - 2021/01/31
Week #2
Day #08/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/01
Day #09/42: 131.1 kg (288.4 lb) - 2021/02/02
Day #10/42: 130.8 kg (287.8 lb) - 2021/02/03
Day #11/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/04
Day #12/42: 130.6 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/05
Day #13/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/06
Day #14/42: 130.1 kg (286.2 lb) - 2021/02/07
Week #3
Day #15/42: 131.2 kg (288.6 lb) - 2021/02/08
Day #16/42: 130.6 kg (287.3 lb) - 2021/02/09
Day #17/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/10
Day #18/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/11
Day #19/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/12
Day #20/42: 129.3 kg (284.5 lb) - 2021/02/13
Day #21/42: 129.0 kg (283.8 lb) - 2021/02/14
Week #4
Day #22/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/15
Day #23/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/16
Day #24/42: 128.6 kg (282.9 lb) - 2021/02/17
Reached a new low today with 87.2 kg
Slow change this week. Maybe I can get down a pound or two until Sunday.
1 Like
Keep rocking!
I’ve saw some of your posts (great content) and you remembered me some people who emerged from Internet foruns.
One of them was Alan Aragon, one of the creators of IIFYM. Today he is a scientist.
–//–
Week #1
Day #01/42: 135.1 kg (297.2 lb) - 2021/01/25
Day #02/42: 134.6 kg (296.1 lb) - 2021/01/26
Day #03/42: 134.3 kg (295.5 lb) - 2021/01/27
Day #04/42: 133.6 kg (294.9 lb) - 2021/01/28
Day #05/42: 132.5 kg (291.5 lb) - 2021/01/29
Day #06/42: 131.7 kg (289.7 lb) - 2021/01/30
Day #07/42: 130.5 kg (287.1 lb) - 2021/01/31
Week #2
Day #08/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/01
Day #09/42: 131.1 kg (288.4 lb) - 2021/02/02
Day #10/42: 130.8 kg (287.8 lb) - 2021/02/03
Day #11/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/04
Day #12/42: 130.6 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/05
Day #13/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/06
Day #14/42: 130.1 kg (286.2 lb) - 2021/02/07
Week #3
Day #15/42: 131.2 kg (288.6 lb) - 2021/02/08
Day #16/42: 130.6 kg (287.3 lb) - 2021/02/09
Day #17/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/10
Day #18/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/11
Day #19/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/12
Day #20/42: 129.3 kg (284.5 lb) - 2021/02/13
Day #21/42: 129.0 kg (283.8 lb) - 2021/02/14
Week #4
Day #22/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/15
Day #23/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/16
Day #24/42: 128.6 kg (282.9 lb) - 2021/02/17
Day #25/42: 128.8 kg (283.4 lb) - 2021/02/18
That’s very kind of you.
I am actually working as a scientist in neurology at the moment.
Also tremendous weight loss progress! You broke 6 kg. Keep it up. I’m counting on you
1 Like
Week #1
Day #01/42: 135.1 kg (297.2 lb) - 2021/01/25
Day #02/42: 134.6 kg (296.1 lb) - 2021/01/26
Day #03/42: 134.3 kg (295.5 lb) - 2021/01/27
Day #04/42: 133.6 kg (294.9 lb) - 2021/01/28
Day #05/42: 132.5 kg (291.5 lb) - 2021/01/29
Day #06/42: 131.7 kg (289.7 lb) - 2021/01/30
Day #07/42: 130.5 kg (287.1 lb) - 2021/01/31
Week #2
Day #08/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/01
Day #09/42: 131.1 kg (288.4 lb) - 2021/02/02
Day #10/42: 130.8 kg (287.8 lb) - 2021/02/03
Day #11/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/04
Day #12/42: 130.6 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/05
Day #13/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/06
Day #14/42: 130.1 kg (286.2 lb) - 2021/02/07
Week #3
Day #15/42: 131.2 kg (288.6 lb) - 2021/02/08
Day #16/42: 130.6 kg (287.3 lb) - 2021/02/09
Day #17/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/10
Day #18/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/11
Day #19/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/12
Day #20/42: 129.3 kg (284.5 lb) - 2021/02/13
Day #21/42: 129.0 kg (283.8 lb) - 2021/02/14
Week #4
Day #22/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/15
Day #23/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/16
Day #24/42: 128.6 kg (282.9 lb) - 2021/02/17
Day #25/42: 128.8 kg (283.4 lb) - 2021/02/18
Day #26/42: 128.6 kg (282.9 lb) - 2021/02/19
Week #1
Day #01/42: 135.1 kg (297.2 lb) - 2021/01/25
Day #02/42: 134.6 kg (296.1 lb) - 2021/01/26
Day #03/42: 134.3 kg (295.5 lb) - 2021/01/27
Day #04/42: 133.6 kg (294.9 lb) - 2021/01/28
Day #05/42: 132.5 kg (291.5 lb) - 2021/01/29
Day #06/42: 131.7 kg (289.7 lb) - 2021/01/30
Day #07/42: 130.5 kg (287.1 lb) - 2021/01/31
Week #2
Day #08/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/01
Day #09/42: 131.1 kg (288.4 lb) - 2021/02/02
Day #10/42: 130.8 kg (287.8 lb) - 2021/02/03
Day #11/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/04
Day #12/42: 130.6 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/05
Day #13/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/06
Day #14/42: 130.1 kg (286.2 lb) - 2021/02/07
Week #3
Day #15/42: 131.2 kg (288.6 lb) - 2021/02/08
Day #16/42: 130.6 kg (287.3 lb) - 2021/02/09
Day #17/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/10
Day #18/42: 130.4 kg (286.9 lb) - 2021/02/11
Day #19/42: 129.7 kg (285.3 lb) - 2021/02/12
Day #20/42: 129.3 kg (284.5 lb) - 2021/02/13
Day #21/42: 129.0 kg (283.8 lb) - 2021/02/14
Week #4
Day #22/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/15
Day #23/42: 129.4 kg (284.7 lb) - 2021/02/16
Day #24/42: 128.6 kg (282.9 lb) - 2021/02/17
Day #25/42: 128.8 kg (283.4 lb) - 2021/02/18
Day #26/42: 128.6 kg (282.9 lb) - 2021/02/19
Day #27/42: 128.3 kg (282.3 lb) - 2021/02/20
1 Like
Nice work Bear!!! Keep it up!!
1 Like