How to Start MMA Training?

Training Powerlifting
41

[quote]Sifu wrote:
California Law, Although I haven’t commented on the various things I’ve seen you write I have been reading your posts.

Quiete frankly I find your posts to be extremely egotistical and some of the things you say to be completely over the top.

Since this is the internet we have little way of knowing wether you are a pimply faced fifteen year old or a grown man. The lack of humility that you display certainly has me wondering.

The standards that you set for someones advice to be acceptable very few people meet. For example if someone hasn’t been in ten street fights they don’t have anything to teach about fighting. I have news for you this isn’t the 1950’s.

My last real fight I was in an after hours in Detroit where it was nothing but G’s, thier stripper girlfreinds and guns. Long story short I started a fight with with a dealer, got jumped by one of his boys and had four more of his boys guys pull guns out ready to shoot me. If I never get into another real fight again it will be too soon.

My teacher who prepared me well for that fight didn’t have any cage fight experience. All he had was tournaments, the dojo and 20 years as a cop. His advice on gunfights saved my life when I was in my first drive by. Yet I don’t know if he had ever been in a driveby. In fact he only ever told me about one fire fight that he had been in.

Anyhow, my advice to you California Law would be to check your ego. In fact I have a good story to illustrate my point.

One of the very toughest fighters I know is a vietnam vet who lives eats and breaths training. He spends plenty of time lifting, hitting heavy bags or makiwara and can literally crush concrete with his bare hands. The guy is a true warrior.

Many years ago he walked into the original powerhouse gym in Highland park (a really bad small city inside Detroit) and got lippy with one of the Dabbish brothers (the owners) who promptly grabbed him by the neck and threw him through one of the walls. They get along well now.

The moral of the story. Don’t underestimate people and don’t be too quick to knock someone elses training. Because you might open up a can of whoopass on yourself.[/quote]

I don’t really see how your points counter mine. I never said to underestimate people. I never said street fighting was some great thing people should do.

What I said was this: If you haven’t had sex, don’t give sex tips. If you haven’t been in a fight, then don’t give fighting advice. Until you’ve felt the rush of a fight a few times, you really don’t know what it’s like. Do you really want to argue that this point is unsound?

If I seem egomanical, then so be it, though I’m snarkier more than anything else. I am fed up with people who obviously have never been in a real fight giving advice about fighting. It’s dangerous, as the person asking for advice might accept it.

As far as whether I’m 15, who knows? Then again, it’s telling that no one has been able to REFUTE my points. Scrappy has made some GREAT counter-points, and reasonable minds can differ on these things. But if the best you can do is say: “This guy is a dick,” that’s cool.

I’d rather be a dick than someone who gives ill-informed advice. My advice might hurt feelings, but it won’t get people who follow it hurt in much worse ways.

42

These are all good points, and I admit my initial statement was overbroad.

The difference I was driving at was between those who take, say, muay thai or bjj and those who actually train to fight. There is a huge difference, but too many guys think because they go to classes, they’re training to be MMA fighters.

Oh, and I’m not trying to create some rarified group that includes me. I do not train MMA, though I do take BJJ classes. So I am not “doing MMA.” :slight_smile:

43

This thread is hilarious. Dead-patterns, UFC, white belts, people at gun-point in Detroit?

Let me respond to the “dead-pattern”. I would love to give you the chance to spend ten seconds with Chojun Miyagi, Tatsuo Shimabuku, or Hironori Ohtsuka. Who are those guys? Yah, that is what I thought. Those are the guys who passed kata along to us as the foundation of training. Legends.

Lots of wanna be tough guys in here who have no appreciation for the basics, tradition, history. Watch a few UFC matches and think you know a thing or two. Most of you should stick to the meathead body building subjects and stop giving bad advice.

44

[quote]JPL200 wrote:
Let me respond to the “dead-pattern”. I would love to give you the chance to spend ten seconds with Chojun Miyagi, Tatsuo Shimabuku, or Hironori Ohtsuka. Who are those guys? Yah, that is what I thought. Those are the guys who passed kata along to us as the foundation of training. Legends.

[/quote]

The thing about katas is that a lot of people are under the impression that that is all you need to be able to fight. I mean I bet those guys sparred.

45

Oh, and the original UFC was just a marketing campaign for the Gracies.

46

Well thanks calilaw…
And I don’t mean to be a prick or nitpicker…but before I had had sex I feel I did learn and know a lot about it just through watching videos…
Enough maybe to even give tips
;-)hehehe

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Sifu wrote:
California Law, Although I haven’t commented on the various things I’ve seen you write I have been reading your posts.

Quiete frankly I find your posts to be extremely egotistical and some of the things you say to be completely over the top.

Since this is the internet we have little way of knowing wether you are a pimply faced fifteen year old or a grown man. The lack of humility that you display certainly has me wondering.

The standards that you set for someones advice to be acceptable very few people meet. For example if someone hasn’t been in ten street fights they don’t have anything to teach about fighting. I have news for you this isn’t the 1950’s.

My last real fight I was in an after hours in Detroit where it was nothing but G’s, thier stripper girlfreinds and guns. Long story short I started a fight with with a dealer, got jumped by one of his boys and had four more of his boys guys pull guns out ready to shoot me. If I never get into another real fight again it will be too soon.

My teacher who prepared me well for that fight didn’t have any cage fight experience. All he had was tournaments, the dojo and 20 years as a cop. His advice on gunfights saved my life when I was in my first drive by. Yet I don’t know if he had ever been in a driveby. In fact he only ever told me about one fire fight that he had been in.

Anyhow, my advice to you California Law would be to check your ego. In fact I have a good story to illustrate my point.

One of the very toughest fighters I know is a vietnam vet who lives eats and breaths training. He spends plenty of time lifting, hitting heavy bags or makiwara and can literally crush concrete with his bare hands. The guy is a true warrior.

Many years ago he walked into the original powerhouse gym in Highland park (a really bad small city inside Detroit) and got lippy with one of the Dabbish brothers (the owners) who promptly grabbed him by the neck and threw him through one of the walls. They get along well now.

The moral of the story. Don’t underestimate people and don’t be too quick to knock someone elses training. Because you might open up a can of whoopass on yourself.

I don’t really see how your points counter mine. I never said to underestimate people. I never said street fighting was some great thing people should do.

What I said was this: If you haven’t had sex, don’t give sex tips. If you haven’t been in a fight, then don’t give fighting advice. Until you’ve felt the rush of a fight a few times, you really don’t know what it’s like. Do you really want to argue that this point is unsound?

If I seem egomanical, then so be it, though I’m snarkier more than anything else. I am fed up with people who obviously have never been in a real fight giving advice about fighting. It’s dangerous, as the person asking for advice might accept it.

As far as whether I’m 15, who knows? Then again, it’s telling that no one has been able to REFUTE my points. Scrappy has made some GREAT counter-points, and reasonable minds can differ on these things. But if the best you can do is say: “This guy is a dick,” that’s cool.

I’d rather be a dick than someone who gives ill-informed advice. My advice might hurt feelings, but it won’t get people who follow it hurt in much worse ways.[/quote]

47

[quote]Sifu wrote:
People are saying throw out the martial arts. All you need to do is take two sports combine them together and now you have a martial art.[/quote]

They are?

I think they’re just saying throw out the useless ones or maybe more accurately, the least practical.

I dont know what you consider a “martial art” but I think it differs from my own definition.

Who walks around in their pajamas/gi’s

I think Kos would kill Diego now that he has focused his training on another sport; boxing.

So he spends all that time in the gym drilling techniques for nothin?

You got all that from the fight?

I just thought Silva proved himself to be a much better Muay Thai fighter and Franklin made the mistake of not fighting the fight where he had a better chance of winning (on the ground).

48

[quote]supermonkey wrote:
Oh, and the original UFC was just a marketing campaign for the Gracies.[/quote]

Yep. And it showed the world that most martial arts systems SUCK when it comes to real fighting.

Since UFC, people who actually want to know how to fight effectively have been cross-training bjj/sambo/submission grappling. This is a very tiny % of martial artists.

The other 99% (posers) continue to argue that the “secret” martial art they know is effective. Heck, it’s so effective that no one can see it in action, as it’d be too dangerous to demonstrate!

Man, martial artists are some strange fruits.

49

I wasn’t really looking to refute what you were saying California.

I would like to say that knowledge is knowledge. If I had a good teacher and I pass on what he has taught me, would the fact that I hadn’t personally used something automatically invalidate it? I feel your posts tend to imply that it would.

That’s why I think there is a little bit of overkill in what you are saying. I don’t really think you are wrong as much as I think you are getting a little carried away.

Does that make more sense as to where I am coming from?

50

Going back to what I wrote about Franklin Silva. The principles that Silva used against Franklin are just about universal to asian martial arts. It was not just about being a better Muay Thai fighter.

Centering is a crucial part of asian martial arts. There are three points in the body where alignments are crucial in order to be able to strike or even stay on your feet. Those points are the knees, the dantien (two inches below the belly button) and the head. Centering is an important part of many chi gong excercises, it’s how the stuff works.

I’ll give you an example of how this works. Stand up in a solid stance with one leg forward and your body straight up and down. In this position it would take some effort to pull you off balance. If you were to slowly bend forward you till your head was out past your front knee you should be able to sense a loss of balance just as your head goes past your knee. If someone stading in front of you were to reach their hand around and grab the back of your head they could easily pull you because you are off balance.

When Silva clinched Franklin he kept Franklin’s head out in front of his knees so he couldn’t center his weight and get his balance which rendered him fairly helpless. Near the end of the fight you do see Franklin do the right thing. Franklin dropped his center which required him to bend his knees to the point that his head was no longer in front of them. Then you see Franklin regain his power and he started to wrestle Silva’s elbows apart. This was what prompted Silva to throw Franklin right across the ring.

Franklin had regained his center and was starting to make it a fight again. Silva had to do that big throw in order to put him back off balance and keep him under control.

Centering is a concept that is central to asian martial arts. Centering is a prerequisite to doing any chi excercise I can think of. I would even go so far as to say it is how chi excercises work.

Does that explain it a little bit better?

51

[quote]Sifu wrote:
California Law, Although I haven’t commented on the various things I’ve seen you write I have been reading your posts.

Quiete frankly I find your posts to be extremely egotistical and some of the things you say to be completely over the top.

Since this is the internet we have little way of knowing wether you are a pimply faced fifteen year old or a grown man. The lack of humility that you display certainly has me wondering.

The standards that you set for someones advice to be acceptable very few people meet. For example if someone hasn’t been in ten street fights they don’t have anything to teach about fighting. I have news for you this isn’t the 1950’s.

My last real fight I was in an after hours in Detroit where it was nothing but G’s, thier stripper girlfreinds and guns. Long story short I started a fight with with a dealer, got jumped by one of his boys and had four more of his boys guys pull guns out ready to shoot me. If I never get into another real fight again it will be too soon.

My teacher who prepared me well for that fight didn’t have any cage fight experience. All he had was tournaments, the dojo and 20 years as a cop. His advice on gunfights saved my life when I was in my first drive by. Yet I don’t know if he had ever been in a driveby. In fact he only ever told me about one fire fight that he had been in.

Anyhow, my advice to you California Law would be to check your ego. In fact I have a good story to illustrate my point.

One of the very toughest fighters I know is a vietnam vet who lives eats and breaths training. He spends plenty of time lifting, hitting heavy bags or makiwara and can literally crush concrete with his bare hands. The guy is a true warrior.

Many years ago he walked into the original powerhouse gym in Highland park (a really bad small city inside Detroit) and got lippy with one of the Dabbish brothers (the owners) who promptly grabbed him by the neck and threw him through one of the walls. They get along well now.

The moral of the story. Don’t underestimate people and don’t be too quick to knock someone elses training. Because you might open up a can of whoopass on yourself.[/quote]

Well done Sifu. Good post.

52

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:

I don’t really see how your points counter mine. I never said to underestimate people. I never said street fighting was some great thing people should do.

What I said was this: If you haven’t had sex, don’t give sex tips. If you haven’t been in a fight, then don’t give fighting advice. Until you’ve felt the rush of a fight a few times, you really don’t know what it’s like. Do you really want to argue that this point is unsound?

If I seem egomanical, then so be it, though I’m snarkier more than anything else. I am fed up with people who obviously have never been in a real fight giving advice about fighting. It’s dangerous, as the person asking for advice might accept it.
[/quote]

I enjoy watching MMA, though I like boxing more. Even you have to realize, though, that MMA is not street fighting.

In a real fight, everything is up in the air, and you might fucking die. That’s not the same as MMA, where there are rules.

You take BJJ…but then I assume you’ve also been in a shitload of streetfights? Because if not, you shouldn’t be giving advice on this acting like it’s going to save you when you’re outside a bar.

I understand what you’re saying, and for the most part I agree with how everyone seems to be “taking MMA” now and how rediulous it is. However, I don’t like it when you talk like MMA is going to matter when I put a bottle through your eye in a bar. Keep it in perspective.

53

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
supermonkey wrote:
Oh, and the original UFC was just a marketing campaign for the Gracies.

Yep. And it showed the world that most martial arts systems SUCK when it comes to real fighting.

Since UFC, people who actually want to know how to fight effectively have been cross-training bjj/sambo/submission grappling. This is a very tiny % of martial artists.

The other 99% (posers) continue to argue that the “secret” martial art they know is effective. Heck, it’s so effective that no one can see it in action, as it’d be too dangerous to demonstrate!

Man, martial artists are some strange fruits.[/quote]

Exactly.

54

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
supermonkey wrote:
Oh, and the original UFC was just a marketing campaign for the Gracies.

Yep. And it showed the world that most martial arts systems SUCK when it comes to real fighting.

Since UFC, people who actually want to know how to fight effectively have been cross-training bjj/sambo/submission grappling. This is a very tiny % of martial artists.

The other 99% (posers) continue to argue that the “secret” martial art they know is effective. Heck, it’s so effective that no one can see it in action, as it’d be too dangerous to demonstrate!

Man, martial artists are some strange fruits.

Exactly.[/quote]

I agree too. The days just before and during the original UFC were the days that so many street styles attempted to take out BJJ/MMA and failed. They failed so miserably that any rational person doing the typical traditional or ‘street lethal’ martial arts got into BJJ/MMA (boxing/bjj/wrestling/thai/sambo and the like).
Don’t forget there were, for years, matches in Brazil in the proverbial ‘street’ everyone refers too that did have biting and gouging and hard surfaces and did not have referees. I’ve seen the tapes and no, not Gracie In-Action, although that is a decent example of many ‘lethal’ guys finding out the way they train, not just their techniques, but the way they train, did not prepare them for an actual fight. Many started doing boxing and grappling and called it anything but boxing and bjj cause for whatever reason they hated bjj’ers or boxers but they did go to realistic grappling/striking. Many others continued to dilude themselves by going to street lethal styles so deadly they can’t be practiced at full speed. When you can’t do something at full speed you really need to question it. Hell, it may be lethal or so brutal you can’t do it at full speed but is that the case usually? No. Usually the case is these guys don’t want to admit they are not ready for the speed a real fight occurs at.