5’s progression, calculating the numbers and reps of the assistance using this app:
I read the books “5/3/1” second edition and “Beyond 5/3/1”. To be fair, there is a chance that i did not fully grasp the system, hence i am here to seek support. If everything would go as expected, that chat would not exist.
Yes, that might be the case. Or there is something of. I dont like to give up on something before i did not fully understand why it did not work.
What are your current training maxes, and how many reps can you perform at your current training maxes?
Your training max should be a 3-5RM. If you can’t do a single rep of your top set your TM is set too high
Maybe you should try DC Training. Its progression scheme is a bit more straightforward and it has solutions for stalls in progress. You just need to make sure that you’re eating to back it up. I think the transition from this to DC is a pretty smooth one. Personally, I’m not afraid to pivot programs if something just isn’t clicking with me.
This article is a good starting point:
And you can check out the intensemuscle site to get more in depth writing from Dante himself. The article above will distill the basic info in a straightforward fashion and give you an example.
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There is your issue: Jim hasn’t released an app for 5/3/1, and all the apps out there screw up the program. You paid for the books: use them. Run the programs as Jim set them up. He did that because they work.
The main work is strength practice. The supplemental work is building. The assistance work is bodybuilding. The conditioning is getting skipped, from the sounds of things.
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Not to be totally contrarian, because I do think there’s a lot of value in finding what went wrong (and it’s why I typically like to just do every set and rep exactly as written when I’m following a program), but…
Is your goal to progress these lifts or to make 5/3/1 work for you?
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Expand on this a little.
Does it make sense to You to do only 15 heavy reps per week to get strong?
How many heavy reps per week makes More sense to you? How many heavy reps per week were you doing in your last routine?
Are you open to using a different 5/3/1 template where thats more like your old training?
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My goal is, as stated in the very first post of this thread, to find a strategy to proceed from where i am now, considering my age and my relatively low experience of two years.
i am open to any strategy that works.
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Thanks for that information dave. I read the article, not sure if that system is good for me, especially at the moment. But there is one thing that really opened my eyes: It was this section, quote:
“We try to put the hardest exercises last so we don’t have to save energy for the rest of the workout if we were to do them first.”
When he hears the predictable follow-up to his response – “What the hell does that mean?” – he offers some clarification:
“After doing a straight set of squats, followed by a Widowmaker, the last thing you’d want to do is train more. That’s why we put them at the end. So we can wait 15 minutes and then crawl out of the gym.”
That really made me think. In my plan before 531, the heavy sets were placed somewhere in the middle of the training. If i got it right, in 531, everything starts with the heavy strength sets first (after warm up of course)
I think that is an issue for me.
Often, especially after a 9hours+ day sitting in the office plus sitting in the car on the way back home, even after the warm up my body just didnt feel ready for heavy low rep sets. As i read the DC article, it just came into my mind, that this might be something to linger on.
So, in my training sessions this week i did an experiment and reversed the 531 plan, starting with the accessiory work, putting the heavy sets to the very end. Pumping up my body first felt better, and even tough my muscles were pre-fatigued, the strength sets not only felt better, the weights moved were measureably higher (at least a bit in this experiment-sessions). It also felt mentally easier with having a bit less going around in my head. It was like: “now that i’m done with the accessoiry work, in can go all out and escalate it on the last heavy reps.”
Maybe thats a more reliable way to go. What are your thoughts on that? Thank you.
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This should be step one. Define your goal and try to be specific. Once you have your goal defined then you can research which program is best for you. Good luck!
It felt good, you lifted bigger weights and it’s already part of an accecpted training method.
I say Keep Doing It.
Hi Guys,
its been a while since i posted here, but i want to give a quick update of what has happended over the last couple of months.
During last summer (my first post here was April 25), i was searching for a way to proceed after my first two years in the strength game. I ran into a wall last spring, and you guys came up with a lot of usefull tips. I tried some variations, but most of them felt not right or made things even worse.
So i went deep into what i could find in the Wendler books (and also in the Rippetoe books, as well as stuff from Dough Hepburn) to get a better understanding of what is going on. Doing so, there was one thing in common in all literature that i could not wrap my head around, and that is the rate of general progression.
As stated last summer, i was wondering why in 531 you increase by 2.5 / 5kg (or 5lb/10lb) on success. This increase has different effect, depending on wether your 1RM is 65kg or 300kg (2.5kg of 65kg is 3,8%, while 2.4kg of 300kg is 0,8%). As my 1RMs are relatively low compared to the numbers in the Wendler books, i started to doubt that the given increase is suitable for me, or for very low weights in general.
Lets call the 2.5/5kg numbers the Grade of adpation.
Besides that, i was thinking about the length of the cycles, which in return have to fit to the time your body needs to adapt to the higher weights after increase. If you grow slow, your body might not be ready with its internal apation.
Lets call the time you need the time of adaption.
After all, there are so many people that have great success with the Wendler scheme and i had not, so it was - to be honest - quite clear that be blame is on me and not the program. So decided to wendler another chance, but varying the grade and time of adaption.
I started with taking four weeks of rest (!), lowered my training weigths by 30%(!) and started all over, but with a personalized grade of adaption and a personalized time of adaption.
The scheme: Wendler Full Body, Full boring.
i adapted the Grade of adaption to:
Upper Body on success +1kg (2lb)
Lower Body on success +2kg (4lb)
The time of adaption was set from three to four weeks by doing the first week twice. I started this in August.
What happend?
Everything is way easier now. I feel way fresher during the week. The training, even the singles and doubles, have somewhat become a kind of second nature. I dont struggle that much with the load and can fully focus on execution and technique. I dont need that much preparation time before the workouts, and directly after the workouts i can continue with my daily labor without feeling tired. The reps in the 80-90% range feel like i am made for it. All in all, i feel great.
Last week i tried maxing out. My 1RMs are on par with what they were in May 2025. I think this is ok, because with the new adaption rates i’m not back in the range of where i started. Regardless of that result, the training weights still follow the new adaption rates mentioned above.
Now im curious what will happen with the 1RMs when i’m back in the range where i did the setback, which is likely to happen by the end of May 26. If everything continues as it does now, new ranges should be within reach.
What do guys think about that strategy?
Thanks for reading!
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