Ok, I know 405 is light for a lot of you guys but so far my max is 335. I want to get to 405. I can rack pull 405 from just above my knees pretty easily. Would I be able to lower the pins gradualy with 405 and be able to get to lifting 405 from the floor? Is that logic flawed in some way?
Would it be better just to train with lighter weight from the floor and work my way up in weight? or would a combination of the two be better? I was planning on lifting from the floor and doing rack pulls so that I don’t loose strength in the bottom of my ROM.
well my advice to you is to give deadlifts a break and break and focus on your squat… My opinion is because I have noticed that when my squat increases my deadlift increases big squat=bigger deadlift.
But if you are not wanting to give up the deadlift for a few weeks(I not saying never deadlift again you still need to do some RDL or Stiff Legs on Squat day as a assistance but dont make it your main lift but once every 4-5 weeks) so try this…
Week A
Squat:5x5(use same weight all the way through first 2 sets should be some what easy, 3 and 4 should be a fight and 5 should be all out hell possibly not even getting the last rep.)
Leg Press:4x8 pryamid sets(increase weight every set)
Stiff Leg Deadlift:3x10
Week B
Squat:Work up to 1rm max or a 3 rep max I prefer 1rm.
Front Squat:4x6 pyramid
RDL:3x8
then Repeat week A, then B, etc…
If you must stick with deadlifts I recomened using straps for your last few sets and just going all out teaching your self to pull just rediculus weight(for you) and train your grip seperatly since you used straps. Also training your core will make all the difference in the world.
Just deadlift and put some effort to it, 405 is easily to be achieved with basic routine of 4x4 or 5x5 weekly deadlift and squatting heavy helps too. And most importantly decent weekly stretching sessions, say about 3 times a week 30 to 40 minutes for lower body and legs.
I can say from experience that proper muscle maintenance(stretching etc.) will work wonders for your perfomance and recovery in deadlift and squats, this way I would say you’ll be hitting 405 in no time.
I agree with im_the_truth mostly. I would focus on getting your squat to 405. I hve always noticed and even been told by multiple OL coaches that the DL will follow the Sq.
But dont stop DLing. Instead I would say to keep both heavy rack pulls and regular Dl’s in the mix. Do the Rack pulls as assistance on Squat day and Do regular DL’s for several sets of 1 on your other lower day. Dont max out on the sets of one each day but get close most of the time and max out every so often. But if you put your volume on the squat and keep just about 12 reps a week on regular floor DL’s I think you’ll be fine and hit $05 in a few months.
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a slippery grip issue with deadlifts. I usually fail well before I am actually done because my palms get too sweaty and I can no longer grip the bar. I don’t like using gloves or straps because I want the most out of the lift I can get, but it’s frustrating that I’m limited by how long I can hold the bar before my hand gets too sweaty rather than what I can phsyically lift.
Thanks for all the help guys. I guess there is a general consensus that doing squats will help improve my deadlift. Well I was just about to start a 4 week lifting phase focusing on my squat so I guess that worked out prety good. I’ll continue to do heavy rack pulls but I’m going to lay off heavy deadlifts for a few weeks and do some RDLs, single lege deadlifts, and leg curls.
I guess my idea of lowering the pins every 3-4 weeks on rack pulls isn’t verry sound or should I still do that?
For Shoobey. Go buy some chalk. I use it even when my hands are not sweaty. You’ll be suprised at how much it helps. also, don’t be afraid to use straps if your grip goes out before you have fully worked your legs and posterior chain.
Well, your plan sounds good. I’ve never done rack pulls since our gym doesn’t have the equipment for it, and my deadlift is still increasing nicely, so I personally don’t feel rack pulls are essential at all. I’ve also never tried pulling from a deficit, maybe it’s something you could try to bring up your strength at the bottom portion of the lift though.
If you are struggling to increase the weight using singles and doubles, do more reps for a while, even around 10 reps would not be crazy. Work your way back up to around your old max, and your new max will be higher. I can’t recall whether or not you said you’re doing 5x5 further down in the thread, but that scheme didn’t work well for me.
Increasing bodyweight would help, as would doing some heavy work for hamstrings. If there are parts of your form that you’re struggling to get right, I feel it’s easier to correct one thing at a time, instead of trying to do it all at once. Within the past couple of weeks, I noticed concentrating on keeping the bar really close to my legs helps a lot (that’s a form issue I had, I guess).
Try deadlifting every 2 weeks instead of 1 - assuming you are doing it once a week as most people do. I don’t think you would need to deadlift less than that to see progress at this stage.
[quote]shoobey wrote:
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a slippery grip issue with deadlifts. I usually fail well before I am actually done because my palms get too sweaty and I can no longer grip the bar. I don’t like using gloves or straps because I want the most out of the lift I can get, but it’s frustrating that I’m limited by how long I can hold the bar before my hand gets too sweaty rather than what I can phsyically lift.[/quote]
I used to think like this before I used straps. Trust me, use straps. I wait until my grip gives out, then I use them.
Eh I’m going to have to disagree here. Yes squatting will absolutely benefit your pull. But squatting ain’t everything. Especially at your point in training. You also need to continue to build up the erectors, low back, and grip amoung other things. Using the squat to get there is most deffinately the slower road.
I would train on a squat+assistance/bench+assistance/deadlift+assistance/optional upper body rep day type of split. it’s worked for me, and pretty much everyone else who’s done it at your point in training. Eat heavilly and make progress.
[quote]shoobey wrote:
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a slippery grip issue with deadlifts. I usually fail well before I am actually done because my palms get too sweaty and I can no longer grip the bar. I don’t like using gloves or straps because I want the most out of the lift I can get, but it’s frustrating that I’m limited by how long I can hold the bar before my hand gets too sweaty rather than what I can phsyically lift.[/quote]
If you use strap your DL will skyrocket
I got from 315 to 405 in two months when I started using straps
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Eh I’m going to have to disagree here. Yes squatting will absolutely benefit your pull. But squatting ain’t everything. Especially at your point in training. You also need to continue to build up the erectors, low back, and grip amoung other things. Using the squat to get there is most deffinately the slower road.
I would train on a squat+assistance/bench+assistance/deadlift+assistance/optional upper body rep day type of split. it’s worked for me, and pretty much everyone else who’s done it at your point in training. Eat heavilly and make progress.
goodluck.[/quote]
I absolutely agree. Relying solely on squatting to increase your deadlift is doing you an injustice. The people who do this are very advanced.
The routine that zephead4747 listed in something you should be following. Keep it simple and you will hit 405 within a year.
I guess my idea of lowering the pins every 3-4 weeks on rack pulls isn’t verry sound or should I still do that?[/quote]
While that can have some merit as an advanced technique, it shouldn’t be what you’re relying on.
As to what may be the reasons for it not working so well as a main method – you seemed to be presenting it as an either/or versus lifting from the floor – look at it this way: However many weeks or months you’re allotting, the great majority of that time you are not training pulling from the floor at all!
Might not your pull from the floor be better if it had been trained that entire time instead of only gotten to right at the very end? Yes.
Train the rack pull from a position that works well for you, which is likely about knee height; and train from the floor. The entire time through the program.
[quote]shoobey wrote:
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a slippery grip issue with deadlifts. I usually fail well before I am actually done because my palms get too sweaty and I can no longer grip the bar. I don’t like using gloves or straps because I want the most out of the lift I can get, but it’s frustrating that I’m limited by how long I can hold the bar before my hand gets too sweaty rather than what I can phsyically lift.[/quote]
Apart from all the advice around lifting heavy, don’t forget to eat. I got my DL past 405 for the first time this year, so PM me if you have questions, although there’s really not much else apart from lift and eat.
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Eh I’m going to have to disagree here. Yes squatting will absolutely benefit your pull. But squatting ain’t everything. Especially at your point in training. You also need to continue to build up the erectors, low back, and grip amoung other things. Using the squat to get there is most deffinately the slower road.
I would train on a squat+assistance/bench+assistance/deadlift+assistance/optional upper body rep day type of split. it’s worked for me, and pretty much everyone else who’s done it at your point in training. Eat heavilly and make progress.
goodluck.
I absolutely agree. Relying solely on squatting to increase your deadlift is doing you an injustice. The people who do this are very advanced.
The routine that zephead4747 listed in something you should be following. Keep it simple and you will hit 405 within a year.
[/quote]
Relying solely on squatting would be foolish. But to put most of your weekly volume into your squats and keeping your floor deadlift work in short sets of 1-2 for about 12-20 reps total isnt the slow road by any means. The alternative route is to look for rep goals at about 95% of your max until you rep it for 4-5 then reevaluate 1RM.
Thing is that often when a beginner athlete puts too much volume into their DL they end up neglecting squats involuntarily because of a fried CNS. Also their pull style becomes much more bent over than up right which leads to big time stalling out between 400-470/500 ish.
So I recommend the squatting in order to ingrain a more upright posture when DLing and keeping your actual DL reps single to focus on form and driving with 90%+ weights.
I just think that if he takes the “deadlift more for reps” route then without someone cocing his DL form would regress to a more bent over style, not as effective at higher wieghts.
As it stands both style would work, only squatting wouldn’t. focusing big volume on the DL would lead to squat stalling whereas focusing big volume on the squat will not lead to DL stalling out.
I would like to know what the OP’s squat 1RM is. I bet its not 405. and i also bet if he could squat 405 he could DL 405 within 2 weeks of getting it into the nerves.
I just completed the goal you are now striving for. In January I could only DL 285 (double overhand). I pulled 425 about a month ago (mixed).
I didn’t do any kind of specialized rack work. I just did DL for a 2x5 or a 3x5 once or twice a week and also hit my squat hard as well. I trained double overhand to help my grip and only did mixed during my max attempts. I’m not sure if that was a good idea or not, but I had no problems with grip on 425. I also did good mornings. I only did at most 2 sets of 5 for those though.
And like chimera said, eat. DL takes a lot out of you, so make sure you recover.
It’s a great feeling pulling 400. I can’t wait to get to 500.
Again thanks a lot for all the help. 405 is IMO the gateway to heavy lifting. I know I’ll get there eventualy but I would like to get there sooner rather than later. Obviously I know that it’s going to take some gym time but I want to use my time efficeintly.
O.K. Here is my training schedule for the next 4 weeks. I am doing a popular training program and It has worked well for me so far. I have gotten stronger on all of my lifts so I’m going to ride it out till the end of the strength phase and then probably dive into the 531 wendler program. On friday’s workout would it be beneficial to add a few sets of heavy deadlifts from the floor as well as some heavy Rack pulls? I was thinking maybe 10 total reps of each.
Monday
2-3 rep max 15 total reps
Overhead Squat
Weighted Dips
weighted neutral grip pullup
Dumbell Romanian Deadlift
Wednesday
4-6 rep max 15 total reps
single leg deadlift
Single arm incline dumbell Bench press
Single leg deadlift
Single arm cable row
Friday
4-6 rep max 15 total reps
high Pull
Standing Barbell Military Press
Squat
