[quote]rds63799 wrote:
I really don’t understand how there can be any debate on this issue.
Whether you bulk slowly, or do the whole “see food” diet, eventually you will get to a level of bodyfat that is unacceptable. When that happens, you cut.
Different people will have different bodyfat thresholds so they’ll want to cut at different times.
Several months ago, I was researching the relationship between muscle thickness and bone thickness. Cross-sectional areas, specifically. If I understood things correctly, muscle growth was limited by bone thickness. This is hypothesized as one of the reasons why muscles atrophy in older people; as their bones weaken and break down, they can’t support as much muscle, so the muscle itself is broken down.
Going the other direction, there seems to be a pretty clear anecdotal correlation that people with bigger (thicker) bones can carry more muscle than people with smaller (thinner) bones. Even looking at some of the “genetic potential” research, joint size is almost always taken into account.
From another angle, I’ve noticed that a number of untrained obese people who actually use weight training as part of their transformations, seem to be more muscular in their 12-18mo After photos as compared to a lot of untrained thinner people who weight train for the same time period with a good diet. I admit there could be a lot of selection bias here, so this could be 100% wrong.
But since bones do get thicker when stressed with more weight, it makes some sense that carrying more weight could increase bone thickness, which then would enable more muscle to be put on.
It’s all conjecture, but there seems to be at least some actual scientific validity to the idea that a “bulk and cut” approach – where you’re holding a weight above your goal weight for awhile – could build more muscle than a purely “lean gains” approach.
Of course, there might be other ways to increase bone cross-sectional-area via training that would then allow more muscle growth.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
I really don’t understand how there can be any debate on this issue.
Whether you bulk slowly, or do the whole “see food” diet, eventually you will get to a level of bodyfat that is unacceptable. When that happens, you cut.
Different people will have different bodyfat thresholds so they’ll want to cut at different times.
It’s all good! Let’s group hug![/quote]
I hit mine recently now cutting[/quote]
Tren harder!
Oh, sorry, I meant train harder…
[/quote]
I will keep trenning…I mean training stupid auto correct.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
I really don’t understand how there can be any debate on this issue.
Whether you bulk slowly, or do the whole “see food” diet, eventually you will get to a level of bodyfat that is unacceptable. When that happens, you cut.[/quote]
My understanding with the “lean gains” approach is that you never really get to a point where you need to cut, unless you’re cutting for a competition.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
I really don’t understand how there can be any debate on this issue.
Whether you bulk slowly, or do the whole “see food” diet, eventually you will get to a level of bodyfat that is unacceptable. When that happens, you cut.[/quote]
My understanding with the “lean gains” approach is that you never really get to a point where you need to cut, unless you’re cutting for a competition.[/quote]
I could see that holding back progress in the long run…especially for a younger lifter.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Assuming the StepMill is that rotating staircase…that thing is a BITCH.
[/quote]
Yes. That one.
It is the favored weapon of the Lean Empire.
It beckons me. I both love it and shun it. It’s a complicated relationship.
[/quote]
FUCK THAT THING…no way to take any kind of break.
even on super slow, and then I feel like I am being judged by the hot girl behind me on the elliptical.[/quote]
Can’t do it. Too much calf/tibialis pump 3 min in[/quote]
You have to build up to it.
Ever get crazy calf pumps when you first started incline treadmilling?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, I can not stress enough how much of a benefit I think it is to make sure that heavy training done in youth…is NOT stressing joints to any significant degree. That is one benefit of not being “extremely lean”…joint lubrication. [/quote]
Could you elaborate on that? How does that work? I wasn’t aware that joint lubrication had anything to do with bodyfat percentage and that it was a completely unrelated process.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Assuming the StepMill is that rotating staircase…that thing is a BITCH.
[/quote]
Yes. That one.
It is the favored weapon of the Lean Empire.
It beckons me. I both love it and shun it. It’s a complicated relationship.
[/quote]
FUCK THAT THING…no way to take any kind of break.
even on super slow, and then I feel like I am being judged by the hot girl behind me on the elliptical.[/quote]
Can’t do it. Too much calf/tibialis pump 3 min in[/quote]
You have to build up to it.
Ever get crazy calf pumps when you first started incline treadmilling?[/quote]
No I get them on flat land walking into class. I haven’t been on a tread mill in 2 months Becuase of pumps. Elyptical all the way
But since bones do get thicker when stressed with more weight, it makes some sense that carrying more weight could increase bone thickness, which then would enable more muscle to be put on.[/quote]
It increases bone density…and yes, I agree that all evidence points to that allowing more muscle to be gained in the long run.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, I can not stress enough how much of a benefit I think it is to make sure that heavy training done in youth…is NOT stressing joints to any significant degree. That is one benefit of not being “extremely lean”…joint lubrication. [/quote]
Could you elaborate on that? How does that work? I wasn’t aware that joint lubrication had anything to do with bodyfat percentage and that it was a completely unrelated process.[/quote]
Body fat is even what allows nerve conduction. Those myelin sheeths that cover nerves are fat deposits…which is why no one could ever survive on “0% body fat”.
Extremely low body fat does more than just effect your looks. In someone who reaches contest levels of leanness there is less fat distributed in and around joints. This can increase the damage those joints take during training. Obviously that is a point of diminishing returns so no one is saying you need to be a high body fat percentage to avoid that…just not so lean it limits recovery.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
I really don’t understand how there can be any debate on this issue.
Whether you bulk slowly, or do the whole “see food” diet, eventually you will get to a level of bodyfat that is unacceptable. When that happens, you cut.[/quote]
My understanding with the “lean gains” approach is that you never really get to a point where you need to cut, unless you’re cutting for a competition.[/quote]
I really do hate the word “bulk” and “cut.”
IMO, “Cutting” shouldn’t be necessary unless you are prepping for a show.
“Cutting” implies an all out push for extensive fat loss.
That shouldn’t be necessary unless you A. Are prepping for a show and need to be 4-6% BF or B. You let your bodyfat level get out of hand.
Adjusting calories, cardio or the amount of work being done can pretty easily bring things back of you start to get loose and a all out “cut” isn’t necessary.
I just hate that word and what it implies.
Most people, IMO, won’t/shouldn’t need to actually “cut”
But since bones do get thicker when stressed with more weight, it makes some sense that carrying more weight could increase bone thickness, which then would enable more muscle to be put on.[/quote]
It increases bone density…and yes, I agree that all evidence piints to that allowing more muscle to be gained in the long run.
[/quote]
Right, wrong choice of words there. I meant density, but was thinking of thickness. Cross sectional area is technically what the research has covered.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Assuming the StepMill is that rotating staircase…that thing is a BITCH.
[/quote]
Yes. That one.
It is the favored weapon of the Lean Empire.
It beckons me. I both love it and shun it. It’s a complicated relationship.
[/quote]
FUCK THAT THING…no way to take any kind of break.
even on super slow, and then I feel like I am being judged by the hot girl behind me on the elliptical.[/quote]
Can’t do it. Too much calf/tibialis pump 3 min in[/quote]
You have to build up to it.
Ever get crazy calf pumps when you first started incline treadmilling?[/quote]
No I get them on flat land walking into class. I haven’t been on a tread mill in 2 months Becuase of pumps. Elyptical all the way[/quote]
Are the pumps painful?
Do they cause numbness and tingling in your feet or toes?
Do you lose flexion and extension ROM in your foot when you get the pumps?
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Assuming the StepMill is that rotating staircase…that thing is a BITCH.
[/quote]
Yes. That one.
It is the favored weapon of the Lean Empire.
It beckons me. I both love it and shun it. It’s a complicated relationship.
[/quote]
FUCK THAT THING…no way to take any kind of break.
even on super slow, and then I feel like I am being judged by the hot girl behind me on the elliptical.[/quote]
Can’t do it. Too much calf/tibialis pump 3 min in[/quote]
You have to build up to it.
Ever get crazy calf pumps when you first started incline treadmilling?[/quote]
No I get them on flat land walking into class. I haven’t been on a tread mill in 2 months Becuase of pumps. Elyptical all the way[/quote]
Are the pumps painful?
Do they cause numbness and tingling in your feet or toes?
Do you lose flexion and extension ROM in your foot when you get the pumps?
[/quote]
Do homeless women comment on your calves? If not, you’re not doing it right.
now cutting[/quote]