How to 'Bulk' For Naturals

Training
641

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I’m not sure how set point theory relates to the topic either. How does that explain more muscle mass in the 2nd person, after the fat loss, per the example quoted above?[/quote]

The idea is that the human body is adaptive in its response to gains in weight and that by your body being comfortable at a higher weight that may have caused strain previously, you can now grow more muscle into that weight reached. That is it about as simply as I can put it.

Given that, at what point would you say that you’ve gained “too much” fat? Assuming you’re actually able to get the food down and keep the training up, at some point you’ll be pushing 300 pounds, then 350, then 400, then 450, etc.

Is there an upper threshold?

EDIT: I mean, is there an upper threshold where the benefits of the additional weight don’t add any value. Diminishing returns etc.[/quote]

Another very specific question.

642

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
I also just wanna say how much these forums SUCK.

I know most don’t care what I think and will probably tell me to leave if I dont like it…

I’ve been a member since '09, and used to lurk for even longer. I never posted much, I just chose to read everything and gain as much information as possible, and boy was these forums full of info.

Now its just full of bullshit…

And before either side causing this bullshit points the finger at the reason, take a good, looong look in the mirror.

I no longer enjoy reading these forums. I have to read through TOO MUCH BULLSHIT, to get any valuable information. [/quote]

I agree with this.

[/quote]

No offence, good Sir, cuz I do respect you…

But you’re like that younger sibling. The older sibling continues to bully and pick on him, only because of the reaction they get out of the younger sibling. If that younger sibling gave no reaction, then the bullying would no longer be fun.

You KNOW certain people are just simply picking on you. Many have ADMITTED it! Yet you continue to engage them when they pick on you. I’ve mentioned this before, as have many others. You said you would try and stop…yet you continue to respond to EVERY SINGLE POST.

Stop taking everything personally and learn to let a few go. Be the “bigger man”.

643

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?[/quote]
10 hard-boiled eggs ED
60g protein
4oz peanut butter ED
25g protein
.5-1.5lb of beef ED
42-200g protein
3-6oz ground turkey ED
23-46g protein
3-5oz salmon ED
21-36g protein
I should have roughly median intake everyday. The rest is just oats, rice, potatoes, fruit, and occasional dairy for protein gaps. The significance of this is that it’s not just a diet plan but a food budget plan as well. Should carryover to other areas of my finances.[/quote]

How well do you think you’ll be able to be consistent with this? It seems as if it would get old after several weeks.[/quote]
If I treat it like I have no choice, it’ll get done.[/quote]

I like it dude, keep us posted.[/quote]
I’ll still have pizza and whatnot every now and then but remember that I said this doubles as a food budget plan. I’ve spent way too much money on food. That squares the incentive.

644

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, the actual ‘bulking’ method itself…

I believe a natural should bulk according to his strength and workout levels.

During his beginning days, he should not bulk aggressively. He should just focus on eating good clean foods, while focusing on steady strength increases. As his volume & strength continue to increase, as should his volume of food. Someone who is struggling to get in a hour of heavy lifting should not be bulking off of 4K calories, while someone can go hard & heavy for 2 hours most likely would need a lot more calories just due to the amount burned off in the gym.

As long as strength gains are being made, the bulk should continue. Now obviously eating 6K calories would lead to strength gains, but way too much unnecessary fat, so nobody is saying to do this. You should be eating enough to continue to make strength & volume gains.

Once you feel you are getting too soft (entirely individual - and which should happen over a period of time - you will not get fat overnight - nor will you make strength gains overnight - so both must go hand in hand) you follow the BlueCollarTr8n method, which I picked up in the midst of this clusterfuck shitstorm (thank-you). Back off the calories (a drastic cut should not be necessary - if done properly). I believe this is what Prof also calls ‘damage control’. Back off the calories, while continuing to attempt to increase strength & volume etc. Maybe throw in a bit more cardio. You choose the agressiveness of this temproary ‘damage control’. This should prevent much ‘muscle loss’ which happens in extreme diets, while continuing to allow you to make gains. [/quote]

Once again, good post and thank you for keeping this thread on topic.[/quote]

Like you using Bauber as an example in a NATTY bulking thread…good one.[/quote]

Brah I am all natural. I only use the creatinzes and wheyz.

645

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, the actual ‘bulking’ method itself…

I believe a natural should bulk according to his strength and workout levels.

During his beginning days, he should not bulk aggressively. He should just focus on eating good clean foods, while focusing on steady strength increases. As his volume & strength continue to increase, as should his volume of food. Someone who is struggling to get in a hour of heavy lifting should not be bulking off of 4K calories, while someone can go hard & heavy for 2 hours most likely would need a lot more calories just due to the amount burned off in the gym.

As long as strength gains are being made, the bulk should continue. Now obviously eating 6K calories would lead to strength gains, but way too much unnecessary fat, so nobody is saying to do this. You should be eating enough to continue to make strength & volume gains.

Once you feel you are getting too soft (entirely individual - and which should happen over a period of time - you will not get fat overnight - nor will you make strength gains overnight - so both must go hand in hand) you follow the BlueCollarTr8n method, which I picked up in the midst of this clusterfuck shitstorm (thank-you). Back off the calories (a drastic cut should not be necessary - if done properly). I believe this is what Prof also calls ‘damage control’. Back off the calories, while continuing to attempt to increase strength & volume etc. Maybe throw in a bit more cardio. You choose the agressiveness of this temproary ‘damage control’. This should prevent much ‘muscle loss’ which happens in extreme diets, while continuing to allow you to make gains. [/quote]

Once again, good post and thank you for keeping this thread on topic.[/quote]

Like you using Bauber as an example in a NATTY bulking thread…good one.[/quote]

Brah I am all natural. I only use the creatinzes and wheyz.[/quote]
LIES!!! I saw you in the stall going to town on some glutamine!

646

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, the actual ‘bulking’ method itself…

I believe a natural should bulk according to his strength and workout levels.

During his beginning days, he should not bulk aggressively. He should just focus on eating good clean foods, while focusing on steady strength increases. As his volume & strength continue to increase, as should his volume of food. Someone who is struggling to get in a hour of heavy lifting should not be bulking off of 4K calories, while someone can go hard & heavy for 2 hours most likely would need a lot more calories just due to the amount burned off in the gym.

As long as strength gains are being made, the bulk should continue. Now obviously eating 6K calories would lead to strength gains, but way too much unnecessary fat, so nobody is saying to do this. You should be eating enough to continue to make strength & volume gains.

Once you feel you are getting too soft (entirely individual - and which should happen over a period of time - you will not get fat overnight - nor will you make strength gains overnight - so both must go hand in hand) you follow the BlueCollarTr8n method, which I picked up in the midst of this clusterfuck shitstorm (thank-you). Back off the calories (a drastic cut should not be necessary - if done properly). I believe this is what Prof also calls ‘damage control’. Back off the calories, while continuing to attempt to increase strength & volume etc. Maybe throw in a bit more cardio. You choose the agressiveness of this temproary ‘damage control’. This should prevent much ‘muscle loss’ which happens in extreme diets, while continuing to allow you to make gains. [/quote]

Once again, good post and thank you for keeping this thread on topic.[/quote]

Like you using Bauber as an example in a NATTY bulking thread…good one.[/quote]

Brah I am all natural. I only use the creatinzes and wheyz.[/quote]
LIES!!! I saw you in the stall going to town on some glutamine![/quote]

Damnit don’t tell my mom please k thx!

647

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, the actual ‘bulking’ method itself…

I believe a natural should bulk according to his strength and workout levels.

During his beginning days, he should not bulk aggressively. He should just focus on eating good clean foods, while focusing on steady strength increases. As his volume & strength continue to increase, as should his volume of food. Someone who is struggling to get in a hour of heavy lifting should not be bulking off of 4K calories, while someone can go hard & heavy for 2 hours most likely would need a lot more calories just due to the amount burned off in the gym.

As long as strength gains are being made, the bulk should continue. Now obviously eating 6K calories would lead to strength gains, but way too much unnecessary fat, so nobody is saying to do this. You should be eating enough to continue to make strength & volume gains.

Once you feel you are getting too soft (entirely individual - and which should happen over a period of time - you will not get fat overnight - nor will you make strength gains overnight - so both must go hand in hand) you follow the BlueCollarTr8n method, which I picked up in the midst of this clusterfuck shitstorm (thank-you). Back off the calories (a drastic cut should not be necessary - if done properly). I believe this is what Prof also calls ‘damage control’. Back off the calories, while continuing to attempt to increase strength & volume etc. Maybe throw in a bit more cardio. You choose the agressiveness of this temproary ‘damage control’. This should prevent much ‘muscle loss’ which happens in extreme diets, while continuing to allow you to make gains. [/quote]

Once again, good post and thank you for keeping this thread on topic.[/quote]

Like you using Bauber as an example in a NATTY bulking thread…good one.[/quote]

Brah I am all natural. I only use the creatinzes and wheyz.[/quote]

ZOMG!!

There is hope for me YET!!

648

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?[/quote]
10 hard-boiled eggs ED
60g protein
4oz peanut butter ED
25g protein
.5-1.5lb of beef ED
42-200g protein
3-6oz ground turkey ED
23-46g protein
3-5oz salmon ED
21-36g protein
I should have roughly median intake everyday. The rest is just oats, rice, potatoes, fruit, and occasional dairy for protein gaps. The significance of this is that it’s not just a diet plan but a food budget plan as well. Should carryover to other areas of my finances.[/quote]

How well do you think you’ll be able to be consistent with this? It seems as if it would get old after several weeks.[/quote]
If I treat it like I have no choice, it’ll get done.[/quote]

I like it dude, keep us posted.[/quote]
I’ll still have pizza and whatnot every now and then but remember that I said this doubles as a food budget plan. I’ve spent way too much money on food. That squares the incentive.[/quote]
I’ve done a similar thing. I figured out that lean meat like chicken breast has X amount of grams of protein for every Xlb100 and that ground meat is similar except now its Xlb%lean.

Thanks to smashing weights I cook up a bunch of chicken and ground beef in 50 grams of protein portions and eat around 4 meals a day with one or two of those meals instead being 6 eggs or a can of tuna that can range from 40-50 grams of protein. Carbs are rice, sweet potatoes and eggo waffles. I should start counting peanut butter as well since I love it.

I can find chicken breast around here for 1.88 dollars per pound which is pretty sweet.

649

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, the actual ‘bulking’ method itself…

I believe a natural should bulk according to his strength and workout levels.

During his beginning days, he should not bulk aggressively. He should just focus on eating good clean foods, while focusing on steady strength increases. As his volume & strength continue to increase, as should his volume of food. Someone who is struggling to get in a hour of heavy lifting should not be bulking off of 4K calories, while someone can go hard & heavy for 2 hours most likely would need a lot more calories just due to the amount burned off in the gym.

As long as strength gains are being made, the bulk should continue. Now obviously eating 6K calories would lead to strength gains, but way too much unnecessary fat, so nobody is saying to do this. You should be eating enough to continue to make strength & volume gains.

Once you feel you are getting too soft (entirely individual - and which should happen over a period of time - you will not get fat overnight - nor will you make strength gains overnight - so both must go hand in hand) you follow the BlueCollarTr8n method, which I picked up in the midst of this clusterfuck shitstorm (thank-you). Back off the calories (a drastic cut should not be necessary - if done properly). I believe this is what Prof also calls ‘damage control’. Back off the calories, while continuing to attempt to increase strength & volume etc. Maybe throw in a bit more cardio. You choose the agressiveness of this temproary ‘damage control’. This should prevent much ‘muscle loss’ which happens in extreme diets, while continuing to allow you to make gains. [/quote]

Once again, good post and thank you for keeping this thread on topic.[/quote]

Like you using Bauber as an example in a NATTY bulking thread…good one.[/quote]

Brah I am all natural. I only use the creatinzes and wheyz.[/quote]

ZOMG!!

There is hope for me YET!![/quote]

When I go to donate blood they are like dude your blood is too awesome. We can’t use this in normal people.

650

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?[/quote]
10 hard-boiled eggs ED
60g protein
4oz peanut butter ED
25g protein
.5-1.5lb of beef ED
42-200g protein
3-6oz ground turkey ED
23-46g protein
3-5oz salmon ED
21-36g protein
I should have roughly median intake everyday. The rest is just oats, rice, potatoes, fruit, and occasional dairy for protein gaps. The significance of this is that it’s not just a diet plan but a food budget plan as well. Should carryover to other areas of my finances.[/quote]

How well do you think you’ll be able to be consistent with this? It seems as if it would get old after several weeks.[/quote]
If I treat it like I have no choice, it’ll get done.[/quote]

I like it dude, keep us posted.[/quote]
I’ll still have pizza and whatnot every now and then but remember that I said this doubles as a food budget plan. I’ve spent way too much money on food. That squares the incentive.[/quote]
I’ve done a similar thing. I figured out that lean meat like chicken breast has X amount of grams of protein for every Xlb100 and that ground meat is similar except now its Xlb%lean.

Thanks to smashing weights I cook up a bunch of chicken and ground beef in 50 grams of protein portions and eat around 4 meals a day with one or two of those meals instead being 6 eggs or a can of tuna that can range from 40-50 grams of protein. Carbs are rice, sweet potatoes and eggo waffles. I should start counting peanut butter as well since I love it.

I can find chicken breast around here for 1.88 dollars per pound which is pretty sweet.

[/quote]

Nice job bro, that sounds like a pretty solid plan.

651

X,

I can go on with examples of specific questions I asked.

These were all opportunities for you to demonstrate your medical knowledge… but you didn’t.

I actually hoped you would, and that there could be some intelligent discussion (albeit a fair amount of speculation) of the biological underpinnings behind the traditional “bulk and cut” approach.

You let me down.

At this point, I feel like saying “POIDH” to your claim of being a DDS. But it’s already clear you don’t have the education.

652

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, the actual ‘bulking’ method itself…

I believe a natural should bulk according to his strength and workout levels.

During his beginning days, he should not bulk aggressively. He should just focus on eating good clean foods, while focusing on steady strength increases. As his volume & strength continue to increase, as should his volume of food. Someone who is struggling to get in a hour of heavy lifting should not be bulking off of 4K calories, while someone can go hard & heavy for 2 hours most likely would need a lot more calories just due to the amount burned off in the gym.

As long as strength gains are being made, the bulk should continue. Now obviously eating 6K calories would lead to strength gains, but way too much unnecessary fat, so nobody is saying to do this. You should be eating enough to continue to make strength & volume gains.

Once you feel you are getting too soft (entirely individual - and which should happen over a period of time - you will not get fat overnight - nor will you make strength gains overnight - so both must go hand in hand) you follow the BlueCollarTr8n method, which I picked up in the midst of this clusterfuck shitstorm (thank-you). Back off the calories (a drastic cut should not be necessary - if done properly). I believe this is what Prof also calls ‘damage control’. Back off the calories, while continuing to attempt to increase strength & volume etc. Maybe throw in a bit more cardio. You choose the agressiveness of this temproary ‘damage control’. This should prevent much ‘muscle loss’ which happens in extreme diets, while continuing to allow you to make gains. [/quote]

Once again, good post and thank you for keeping this thread on topic.[/quote]

Like you using Bauber as an example in a NATTY bulking thread…good one.[/quote]

Brah I am all natural. I only use the creatinzes and wheyz.[/quote]

ZOMG!!

There is hope for me YET!![/quote]

When I go to donate blood they are like dude your blood is too awesome. We can’t use this in normal people.
[/quote]

We can only hope to get hurt when you are nearby…your blood is so awesome it works in EVERYBODY.

653

I guess one of the things that’s frustrating for a guy like me on this forum is that all advice and attitudes presented in a thread like this seem to be geared for the “hard-gainers”…the guys who had trouble putting on size in the beginning.

Sure, the eat more, eat clean, don’t be super strict counting, see volume and strength go up week to week is awesome advice…FOR THEM.

Not for me, and not for those of us who get into the iron game because we are endomorphic and have trouble keeping weight OFF. To insinuate that because we need to count to keep calories in check we “don’t know our bodies very well” is complete bullshit.

What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.

So yea, I guess there’s a fullhouse and a lean gainz side on TNation right now, but what about us who can’t really take either approach without either being a complete fatass OR completely miserable and ready to chew off our own arm at any instant?

654

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, the actual ‘bulking’ method itself…

I believe a natural should bulk according to his strength and workout levels.

During his beginning days, he should not bulk aggressively. He should just focus on eating good clean foods, while focusing on steady strength increases. As his volume & strength continue to increase, as should his volume of food. Someone who is struggling to get in a hour of heavy lifting should not be bulking off of 4K calories, while someone can go hard & heavy for 2 hours most likely would need a lot more calories just due to the amount burned off in the gym.

As long as strength gains are being made, the bulk should continue. Now obviously eating 6K calories would lead to strength gains, but way too much unnecessary fat, so nobody is saying to do this. You should be eating enough to continue to make strength & volume gains.

Once you feel you are getting too soft (entirely individual - and which should happen over a period of time - you will not get fat overnight - nor will you make strength gains overnight - so both must go hand in hand) you follow the BlueCollarTr8n method, which I picked up in the midst of this clusterfuck shitstorm (thank-you). Back off the calories (a drastic cut should not be necessary - if done properly). I believe this is what Prof also calls ‘damage control’. Back off the calories, while continuing to attempt to increase strength & volume etc. Maybe throw in a bit more cardio. You choose the agressiveness of this temproary ‘damage control’. This should prevent much ‘muscle loss’ which happens in extreme diets, while continuing to allow you to make gains. [/quote]

Once again, good post and thank you for keeping this thread on topic.[/quote]

Like you using Bauber as an example in a NATTY bulking thread…good one.[/quote]

Brah I am all natural. I only use the creatinzes and wheyz.[/quote]

ZOMG!!

There is hope for me YET!![/quote]

When I go to donate blood they are like dude your blood is too awesome. We can’t use this in normal people.
[/quote]

We can only hope to get hurt when you are nearby…your blood is so awesome it works in EVERYBODY.[/quote]

Ironically enough it does… O neg representing.

655

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I guess one of the things that’s frustrating for a guy like me on this forum is that all advice and attitudes presented in a thread like this seem to be geared for the “hard-gainers”…the guys who had trouble putting on size in the beginning.

Sure, the eat more, eat clean, don’t be super strict counting, see volume and strength go up week to week is awesome advice…FOR THEM.

Not for me, and not for those of us who get into the iron game because we are endomorphic and have trouble keeping weight OFF. To insinuate that because we need to count to keep calories in check we “don’t know our bodies very well” is complete bullshit.

What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.

So yea, I guess there’s a fullhouse and a lean gainz side on TNation right now, but what about us who can’t really take either approach without either being a complete fatass OR completely miserable and ready to chew off our own arm at any instant? [/quote]

Did you see BlueCollarTr8ns approach? There’s some additional detail in his “how do you train” thread.

Would that approach work for you?

656

[quote]LoRez wrote:
X,

I can go on with examples of specific questions I asked.
[/quote]

Then do so.

657

[quote]LoRez wrote:

These were all opportunities for you to demonstrate your medical knowledge… but you didn’t.
[/quote]

Also, you have to be kidding with this. I wasn’t aware I needed to keep jumping through hoops to prove it to you.

Still waiting on these “specific” questions you asked…because I haven’t seen one yet.

658

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
X,

I can go on with examples of specific questions I asked.
[/quote]

Then do so.[/quote]

Could you answer the ones I’ve already asked?

659

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I guess one of the things that’s frustrating for a guy like me on this forum is that all advice and attitudes presented in a thread like this seem to be geared for the “hard-gainers”…the guys who had trouble putting on size in the beginning.

Sure, the eat more, eat clean, don’t be super strict counting, see volume and strength go up week to week is awesome advice…FOR THEM.

Not for me, and not for those of us who get into the iron game because we are endomorphic and have trouble keeping weight OFF. To insinuate that because we need to count to keep calories in check we “don’t know our bodies very well” is complete bullshit.

What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.

So yea, I guess there’s a fullhouse and a lean gainz side on TNation right now, but what about us who can’t really take either approach without either being a complete fatass OR completely miserable and ready to chew off our own arm at any instant? [/quote]

Did you see BlueCollarTr8ns approach? There’s some additional detail in his “how do you train” thread.

Would that approach work for you?[/quote]

Can you point me to where I can find it? Hard to find it in a 27 page thread that’s 90% non-sense banter.

660

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
X,

I can go on with examples of specific questions I asked.
[/quote]

Then do so.[/quote]

Could you answer the ones I’ve already asked?[/quote]

Here:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_bigger_stronger_leaner/how_to_bulk_for_naturals?id=5676916&pageNo=25#5684031

And my question I bumped, a few posts below that one too.