[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
If you think that being assisted has zero effect on the basic concept of gaining muscle…I fear for our dental education system.
Better?
[/quote]
Steroids do not change the genetics of the individual…so what are you talking about here?[/quote]
I think he’s referring to metabolic limitations[/quote]
This would be genetic.[/quote]
What wouldn’t be?[/quote]
Limits.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, for all the people who will ‘nitpick’ (no offence to most on this thread, but I do swear most try their hardest to find something to criticize which is why we have many problems with what is just really semantics) what I just wrote…
Is this the best method? I will admit, no. The best method is to count calories, increase a few hundred when progress stalls, find your sweet spot, measure each calorie that goes into your mouth, and make the necessary adjustments.
But how many people actually do this in real life. You can sit here and tell me how easy it is to prepare your food the night prior, etc., but most people just don’t want to do this. Some just like to eat a few servings of mama’s soul food, or whatever is being served at their school or work cafeteria. Therefore knowing your body and how much you’re eating and a general understanding of how food affects you is best for those in this scenario. [/quote]
Well I guess that is the difference between folks who care and folks who recreate at the gym…nothing wrong with either group IMO.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, for all the people who will ‘nitpick’ (no offence to most on this thread, but I do swear most try their hardest to find something to criticize which is why we have many problems with what is just really semantics) what I just wrote…
Is this the best method? I will admit, no. The best method is to count calories, increase a few hundred when progress stalls, find your sweet spot, measure each calorie that goes into your mouth, and make the necessary adjustments.
But how many people actually do this in real life. You can sit here and tell me how easy it is to prepare your food the night prior, etc., but most people just don’t want to do this. Some just like to eat a few servings of mama’s soul food, or whatever is being served at their school or work cafeteria. Therefore knowing your body and how much you’re eating and a general understanding of how food affects you is best for those in this scenario. [/quote]
Well I guess that is the difference between folks who care and folks who recreate at the gym…nothing wrong with either group IMO.[/quote]
Not wanting to count calories does not mean you ‘don’t care.’
If you plan on stepping on stage…you must count calories.
If you don’t, then it is not necessary.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, for all the people who will ‘nitpick’ (no offence to most on this thread, but I do swear most try their hardest to find something to criticize which is why we have many problems with what is just really semantics) what I just wrote…
Is this the best method? I will admit, no. The best method is to count calories, increase a few hundred when progress stalls, find your sweet spot, measure each calorie that goes into your mouth, and make the necessary adjustments.
But how many people actually do this in real life. You can sit here and tell me how easy it is to prepare your food the night prior, etc., but most people just don’t want to do this. Some just like to eat a few servings of mama’s soul food, or whatever is being served at their school or work cafeteria. Therefore knowing your body and how much you’re eating and a general understanding of how food affects you is best for those in this scenario. [/quote]
Well I guess that is the difference between folks who care and folks who recreate at the gym…nothing wrong with either group IMO.[/quote]
Not wanting to count calories does not mean you ‘don’t care.’
If you plan on stepping on stage…you must count calories.
If you don’t, then it is not necessary.[/quote]
^this
I also just wanna say how much these forums SUCK.
I know most don’t care what I think and will probably tell me to leave if I dont like it…
I’ve been a member since '09, and used to lurk for even longer. I never posted much, I just chose to read everything and gain as much information as possible, and boy was these forums full of info.
Now its just full of bullshit…
And before either side causing this bullshit points the finger at the reason, take a good, looong look in the mirror.
I no longer enjoy reading these forums. I have to read through TOO MUCH BULLSHIT, to get any valuable information.
Well, I shouldn’t say the entire forum, because there are still posters who share a lot of valuable info, no need to list names, everybody knows who they are, but damn!
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, for all the people who will ‘nitpick’ (no offence to most on this thread, but I do swear most try their hardest to find something to criticize which is why we have many problems with what is just really semantics) what I just wrote…
Is this the best method? I will admit, no. The best method is to count calories, increase a few hundred when progress stalls, find your sweet spot, measure each calorie that goes into your mouth, and make the necessary adjustments.
But how many people actually do this in real life. You can sit here and tell me how easy it is to prepare your food the night prior, etc., but most people just don’t want to do this. Some just like to eat a few servings of mama’s soul food, or whatever is being served at their school or work cafeteria. Therefore knowing your body and how much you’re eating and a general understanding of how food affects you is best for those in this scenario. [/quote]
Well I guess that is the difference between folks who care and folks who recreate at the gym…nothing wrong with either group IMO.[/quote]
Not wanting to count calories does not mean you ‘don’t care.’
If you plan on stepping on stage…you must count calories.
If you don’t, then it is not necessary.[/quote]
I admit it took me quite a while before I even started to roughly calculate macros lol.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Well, I shouldn’t say the entire forum, because there are still posters who share a lot of valuable info, no need to list names, everybody knows who they are but damn![/quote]
Damn doesn’t know who he is anymore. He hasn’t been the same since the accident.
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, for all the people who will ‘nitpick’ (no offence to most on this thread, but I do swear most try their hardest to find something to criticize which is why we have many problems with what is just really semantics) what I just wrote…
Is this the best method? I will admit, no. The best method is to count calories, increase a few hundred when progress stalls, find your sweet spot, measure each calorie that goes into your mouth, and make the necessary adjustments.
But how many people actually do this in real life. You can sit here and tell me how easy it is to prepare your food the night prior, etc., but most people just don’t want to do this. Some just like to eat a few servings of mama’s soul food, or whatever is being served at their school or work cafeteria. Therefore knowing your body and how much you’re eating and a general understanding of how food affects you is best for those in this scenario. [/quote]
Well I guess that is the difference between folks who care and folks who recreate at the gym…nothing wrong with either group IMO.[/quote]
Not wanting to count calories does not mean you ‘don’t care.’
If you plan on stepping on stage…you must count calories.
If you don’t, then it is not necessary.[/quote]
I admit it took me quite a while before I even started to roughly calculate macros lol.[/quote]
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
How I believe a natural should bulk…
Truthfully, I believe Professor X’s method in combination with BlueCollarTr8n’s method is best for a natural to “Bulk”, especially one who is trying to put on as much muscle as possible.
The truth is, other than the most dedicated of weightlifters (mostly only found on websites like these & very rare in real life), will never count calories, nor care to. Every gym rat I?ve ever talked to and asked q?s on how to gain weight, will say eat as much REAL FOOD as possible, and lift as heavy as possible. None will go into calories. I’ve seen way too many weightlifters take the ‘slow & steady’ approach to bulking and fail. Progress is too slow and incremental. Besides, it’s very difficult to overeat when eating REAL “CLEAN” FOOD. Especially for a noob with a raging metabolism and an ectomorph type frame.
This noob should eat as much as possible, while attempting to gain as much strength as possible. He will develop a natural ability to learn what amounts of food he must eat which will result in both weight & strength gain. Changes will be made as progress is made. Breakfast will gradually increase from 3 eggs to 4, then to 5, then to 6, as his body weight, strength, & appetite increases. Lunch can increase from a smaller plate of protein & carbs, to a bigger plate, etc.
Nobody is saying to bulk off pizza and ice-cream. It is very difficult to eat 4K calories of ‘CLEAN’ food aka eggs, rice, potatoes, chicken, beef, etc. The common theme in these forums is people who OVERBULK and now have fat to lose, but at least they gained the muscle. When I look around the numerous gyms I visit, I see more people who are unable to gain weight, rather than those who are gaining too much.
[/quote]
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, the actual ‘bulking’ method itself…
I believe a natural should bulk according to his strength and workout levels.
During his beginning days, he should not bulk aggressively. He should just focus on eating good clean foods, while focusing on steady strength increases. As his volume & strength continue to increase, as should his volume of food. Someone who is struggling to get in a hour of heavy lifting should not be bulking off of 4K calories, while someone can go hard & heavy for 2 hours most likely would need a lot more calories just due to the amount burned off in the gym.
As long as strength gains are being made, the bulk should continue. Now obviously eating 6K calories would lead to strength gains, but way too much unnecessary fat, so nobody is saying to do this. You should be eating enough to continue to make strength & volume gains.
Once you feel you are getting too soft (entirely individual - and which should happen over a period of time - you will not get fat overnight - nor will you make strength gains overnight - so both must go hand in hand) you follow the BlueCollarTr8n method, which I picked up in the midst of this clusterfuck shitstorm (thank-you). Back off the calories (a drastic cut should not be necessary - if done properly). I believe this is what Prof also calls ‘damage control’. Back off the calories, while continuing to attempt to increase strength & volume etc. Maybe throw in a bit more cardio. You choose the agressiveness of this temproary ‘damage control’. This should prevent much ‘muscle loss’ which happens in extreme diets, while continuing to allow you to make gains. [/quote]
Thank you for this. This is pretty much what I’ve picked up and is roughly what I plan on doing.
For the most part, I think there’s a lot of agreement on this approach, on both sides of the fence. Obivously some details differ, but the overall strategy seems pretty sound. What I especially appreciate from BlueCollarTr8n’s explanation is the details to help quantify things.
From Professor X, I was hoping for some discussion that delved a bit deeper into the medical side of things, lending further validation to the approach. But we saw what happened there.
Either way, thank you again. This was the kind of discussion I was wanting to have in this thread.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
I also just wanna say how much these forums SUCK.
I know most don’t care what I think and will probably tell me to leave if I dont like it…
I’ve been a member since '09, and used to lurk for even longer. I never posted much, I just chose to read everything and gain as much information as possible, and boy was these forums full of info.
Now its just full of bullshit…
And before either side causing this bullshit points the finger at the reason, take a good, looong look in the mirror.
I no longer enjoy reading these forums. I have to read through TOO MUCH BULLSHIT, to get any valuable information. [/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, for all the people who will ‘nitpick’ (no offence to most on this thread, but I do swear most try their hardest to find something to criticize which is why we have many problems with what is just really semantics) what I just wrote…
Is this the best method? I will admit, no. The best method is to count calories, increase a few hundred when progress stalls, find your sweet spot, measure each calorie that goes into your mouth, and make the necessary adjustments.
But how many people actually do this in real life. You can sit here and tell me how easy it is to prepare your food the night prior, etc., but most people just don’t want to do this. Some just like to eat a few servings of mama’s soul food, or whatever is being served at their school or work cafeteria. Therefore knowing your body and how much you’re eating and a general understanding of how food affects you is best for those in this scenario. [/quote]
Well I guess that is the difference between folks who care and folks who recreate at the gym…nothing wrong with either group IMO.[/quote]
Not wanting to count calories does not mean you ‘don’t care.’
If you plan on stepping on stage…you must count calories.
If you don’t, then it is not necessary.[/quote]
I admit it took me quite a while before I even started to roughly calculate macros lol.[/quote]
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
From Professor X, I was hoping for some discussion that delved a bit deeper into the medical side of things, lending further validation to the approach. But we saw what happened there.
[/quote]
What did happen?
You never asked any specific questions. No one can give you SPECIFICS for all people without you specifying what it is you want to know exactly.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
I also just wanna say how much these forums SUCK.
I know most don’t care what I think and will probably tell me to leave if I dont like it…
I’ve been a member since '09, and used to lurk for even longer. I never posted much, I just chose to read everything and gain as much information as possible, and boy was these forums full of info.
Now its just full of bullshit…
And before either side causing this bullshit points the finger at the reason, take a good, looong look in the mirror.
I no longer enjoy reading these forums. I have to read through TOO MUCH BULLSHIT, to get any valuable information. [/quote]
I agree with this.
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, for all the people who will ‘nitpick’ (no offence to most on this thread, but I do swear most try their hardest to find something to criticize which is why we have many problems with what is just really semantics) what I just wrote…
Is this the best method? I will admit, no. The best method is to count calories, increase a few hundred when progress stalls, find your sweet spot, measure each calorie that goes into your mouth, and make the necessary adjustments.
But how many people actually do this in real life. You can sit here and tell me how easy it is to prepare your food the night prior, etc., but most people just don’t want to do this. Some just like to eat a few servings of mama’s soul food, or whatever is being served at their school or work cafeteria. Therefore knowing your body and how much you’re eating and a general understanding of how food affects you is best for those in this scenario. [/quote]
Well I guess that is the difference between folks who care and folks who recreate at the gym…nothing wrong with either group IMO.[/quote]
Not wanting to count calories does not mean you ‘don’t care.’
If you plan on stepping on stage…you must count calories.
If you don’t, then it is not necessary.[/quote]
I admit it took me quite a while before I even started to roughly calculate macros lol.[/quote]
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?[/quote]
10 hard-boiled eggs ED
60g protein
4oz peanut butter ED
25g protein
.5-1.5lb of beef ED
42-200g protein
3-6oz ground turkey ED
23-46g protein
3-5oz salmon ED
21-36g protein
I should have roughly median intake everyday. The rest is just oats, rice, potatoes, fruit, and occasional dairy for protein gaps. The significance of this is that it’s not just a diet plan but a food budget plan as well. Should carryover to other areas of my finances.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
Now, for all the people who will ‘nitpick’ (no offence to most on this thread, but I do swear most try their hardest to find something to criticize which is why we have many problems with what is just really semantics) what I just wrote…
Is this the best method? I will admit, no. The best method is to count calories, increase a few hundred when progress stalls, find your sweet spot, measure each calorie that goes into your mouth, and make the necessary adjustments.
But how many people actually do this in real life. You can sit here and tell me how easy it is to prepare your food the night prior, etc., but most people just don’t want to do this. Some just like to eat a few servings of mama’s soul food, or whatever is being served at their school or work cafeteria. Therefore knowing your body and how much you’re eating and a general understanding of how food affects you is best for those in this scenario. [/quote]
Well I guess that is the difference between folks who care and folks who recreate at the gym…nothing wrong with either group IMO.[/quote]
Not wanting to count calories does not mean you ‘don’t care.’
If you plan on stepping on stage…you must count calories.
If you don’t, then it is not necessary.[/quote]
True enough…the don’t care simply applies to not caring to count calories.
Nothing more.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
From Professor X, I was hoping for some discussion that delved a bit deeper into the medical side of things, lending further validation to the approach. But we saw what happened there.
[/quote]
What did happen?
You never asked any specific questions. No one can give you SPECIFICS for all people without you specifying what it is you want to know exactly.[/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Well, so far, the only benefit I see to “intentionally carrying extra weight for a period of time, before losing it”, is that theory of greater bodyweight → increased bone density → greater muscular growth.
If one person takes a lean gains approach to their diet and ends up at 12% bodyfat in the end, and another takes a “bulk and cut” (i.e, bulk and diet back down) approach to end up at 12% bodyfat in the end… that bone density theory is the only explanation I have for the 2nd person having more muscle than the first.[/quote]
There is much more to it than that.[/quote]
What else is there? Genuinely asking, since your response was vague.[/quote]
I explained it before…from leverage to set point theory to joint lubrication…all of this can effect strength which would also effect gains in muscle.[/quote]
I specified what I wanted to know exactly.
Then, I followed up with questions about leverage, set point theory, and joint lubrication.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?[/quote]
10 hard-boiled eggs ED
60g protein
4oz peanut butter ED
25g protein
.5-1.5lb of beef ED
42-200g protein
3-6oz ground turkey ED
23-46g protein
3-5oz salmon ED
21-36g protein
I should have roughly median intake everyday. The rest is just oats, rice, potatoes, fruit, and occasional dairy for protein gaps. The significance of this is that it’s not just a diet plan but a food budget plan as well. Should carryover to other areas of my finances.[/quote]
How well do you think you’ll be able to be consistent with this? It seems as if it would get old after several weeks.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?[/quote]
10 hard-boiled eggs ED
60g protein
4oz peanut butter ED
25g protein
.5-1.5lb of beef ED
42-200g protein
3-6oz ground turkey ED
23-46g protein
3-5oz salmon ED
21-36g protein
I should have roughly median intake everyday. The rest is just oats, rice, potatoes, fruit, and occasional dairy for protein gaps. The significance of this is that it’s not just a diet plan but a food budget plan as well. Should carryover to other areas of my finances.[/quote]
How well do you think you’ll be able to be consistent with this? It seems as if it would get old after several weeks.[/quote]
If I treat it like I have no choice, it’ll get done.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?[/quote]
10 hard-boiled eggs ED
60g protein
4oz peanut butter ED
25g protein
.5-1.5lb of beef ED
42-200g protein
3-6oz ground turkey ED
23-46g protein
3-5oz salmon ED
21-36g protein
I should have roughly median intake everyday. The rest is just oats, rice, potatoes, fruit, and occasional dairy for protein gaps. The significance of this is that it’s not just a diet plan but a food budget plan as well. Should carryover to other areas of my finances.[/quote]
How well do you think you’ll be able to be consistent with this? It seems as if it would get old after several weeks.[/quote]
If I treat it like I have no choice, it’ll get done.[/quote]
I like it dude, keep us posted.