[quote]jskrabac wrote:
What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.
[/quote]
Um…you missed that someone like that should not bulk up?
If you re “terrified” of getting fat then by all means…don’t add to your phobia.
if that phobia is decreasing your overall gains, then maybe you need to address it directly.
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I made myself a diet plan for the upcoming school year. It was disgustingly easy. Far easier than I anticipated.[/quote]
Sweet can you go into it?[/quote]
10 hard-boiled eggs ED
60g protein
4oz peanut butter ED
25g protein
.5-1.5lb of beef ED
42-200g protein
3-6oz ground turkey ED
23-46g protein
3-5oz salmon ED
21-36g protein
I should have roughly median intake everyday. The rest is just oats, rice, potatoes, fruit, and occasional dairy for protein gaps. The significance of this is that it’s not just a diet plan but a food budget plan as well. Should carryover to other areas of my finances.[/quote]
How well do you think you’ll be able to be consistent with this? It seems as if it would get old after several weeks.[/quote]
If I treat it like I have no choice, it’ll get done.[/quote]
I like it dude, keep us posted.[/quote]
I’ll still have pizza and whatnot every now and then but remember that I said this doubles as a food budget plan. I’ve spent way too much money on food. That squares the incentive.[/quote]
I’ve done a similar thing. I figured out that lean meat like chicken breast has X amount of grams of protein for every Xlb100 and that ground meat is similar except now its Xlb%lean.
Thanks to smashing weights I cook up a bunch of chicken and ground beef in 50 grams of protein portions and eat around 4 meals a day with one or two of those meals instead being 6 eggs or a can of tuna that can range from 40-50 grams of protein. Carbs are rice, sweet potatoes and eggo waffles. I should start counting peanut butter as well since I love it.
I can find chicken breast around here for 1.88 dollars per pound which is pretty sweet.
[/quote]
I used to eat that way when I was getting started. Gainz were coming easy and I keep having it re-enforced in my training that I don’t seem to need to care that much at all to get stronger. I’d be A LOT further along if I was as consistent with training and nutrition as I should have been.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.
[/quote]
Um…you missed that someone like that should not bulk up?
If you re “terrified” of getting fat then by all means…don’t add to your phobia.
if that phobia is decreasing your overall gains, then maybe you need to address it directly.[/quote]
How?
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I guess one of the things that’s frustrating for a guy like me on this forum is that all advice and attitudes presented in a thread like this seem to be geared for the “hard-gainers”…the guys who had trouble putting on size in the beginning.
Sure, the eat more, eat clean, don’t be super strict counting, see volume and strength go up week to week is awesome advice…FOR THEM.
Not for me, and not for those of us who get into the iron game because we are endomorphic and have trouble keeping weight OFF. To insinuate that because we need to count to keep calories in check we “don’t know our bodies very well” is complete bullshit.
What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.
So yea, I guess there’s a fullhouse and a lean gainz side on TNation right now, but what about us who can’t really take either approach without either being a complete fatass OR completely miserable and ready to chew off our own arm at any instant? [/quote]
Did you see BlueCollarTr8ns approach? There’s some additional detail in his “how do you train” thread.
Would that approach work for you?[/quote]
Can you point me to where I can find it? Hard to find it in a 27 page thread that’s 90% non-sense banter.
[/quote]
Understandable…
Page 11, first post, and a few followups on that page.
He also mentioned a macro breakdown in the “how do you train” thread. I quoted that on Page 1 of this thread.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
X,
I can go on with examples of specific questions I asked.
[/quote]
Then do so.[/quote]
Could you answer the ones I’ve already asked?[/quote]
And my question I bumped, a few posts below that one too.[/quote]
[quote]Well, so far, the only benefit I see to “intentionally carrying extra weight for a period of time, before losing it”, is that theory of greater bodyweight → increased bone density → greater muscular growth.
If one person takes a lean gains approach to their diet and ends up at 12% bodyfat in the end, and another takes a “bulk and cut” (i.e, bulk and diet back down) approach to end up at 12% bodyfat in the end… that bone density theory is the only explanation I have for the 2nd person having more muscle than the first.[/quote]
I have discussed weight set point theory ad nauseum before. You really want me to repeat all of that here?
This isn’t just about bone density but getting the entire body to get used to the increased weight and its effects on conditioning.
This is about YEARS OF TRAINING…so who is going to make more progress in terms of building muscle in a given time period…the guy holding back progress or the guy making sure all caloric needs are met to make the most muscle gains possible?
What SPECIFICALLY are you missing here?
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.
[/quote]
Um…you missed that someone like that should not bulk up?
If you re “terrified” of getting fat then by all means…don’t add to your phobia.
if that phobia is decreasing your overall gains, then maybe you need to address it directly.[/quote]
How?[/quote]
You don’t understand how not eating enough can hold back progress?
Really?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have discussed weight set point theory ad nauseum before. You really want me to repeat all of that here?
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have discussed weight set point theory ad nauseum before. You really want me to repeat all of that here?
[/quote]
Yes.[/quote]
Then I am at work and can not oblige.
Do a search and see what you can find. I have done this before…and seriously, acting like it is my duty to repeat it all for you whenever you ask is pretty ridiculous.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I guess one of the things that’s frustrating for a guy like me on this forum is that all advice and attitudes presented in a thread like this seem to be geared for the “hard-gainers”…the guys who had trouble putting on size in the beginning.
Sure, the eat more, eat clean, don’t be super strict counting, see volume and strength go up week to week is awesome advice…FOR THEM.
Not for me, and not for those of us who get into the iron game because we are endomorphic and have trouble keeping weight OFF. To insinuate that because we need to count to keep calories in check we “don’t know our bodies very well” is complete bullshit.
What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.
So yea, I guess there’s a fullhouse and a lean gainz side on TNation right now, but what about us who can’t really take either approach without either being a complete fatass OR completely miserable and ready to chew off our own arm at any instant?
[/quote]
Nobody’s implying that if you keep track of your cals you ‘don’t know your body very well’ Or I wasn’t at least. Again, different strokes for different folks. But even in your example, after tracking cals for an extended period of time, you’d get an idea of what volume of food you can handle in a typical day, and what kind of results you’d get off of that. And overtime can develop the ability to make small incremental changes, without having to keep track of every calorie.
I’ve already stated that the best approach to the best gains is to keep track of cals, and adjust accordingly. But again, not everybody wants to do this.
Altho, I do believe every person should develop a basic sense of knowledge when it comes to food, nutrition, and calories etc. It will be a lot more easier to develop the ability to naturally do this without having to count calories.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have discussed weight set point theory ad nauseum before. You really want me to repeat all of that here?
[/quote]
Yes.[/quote]
Then I am at work and can not oblige.
Do a search and see what you can find. I have done this before…and seriously, acting like it is my duty to repeat it all for you whenever you ask is pretty ridiculous.[/quote]
Then could you at least answer the question I asked that ended with “Is there an upper threshold?”
I quoted it again on page 26. If you search for the phrase “upper threshold”, you’ll find the question, with the associated context.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.
[/quote]
Um…you missed that someone like that should not bulk up?
If you re “terrified” of getting fat then by all means…don’t add to your phobia.
if that phobia is decreasing your overall gains, then maybe you need to address it directly.[/quote]
How?[/quote]
You don’t understand how not eating enough can hold back progress?
Really?[/quote]
Sorry. I meant “how do you address the phobia.” This is something that has really troubled me since I got into the iron game.
And for the record, replies like this are where people come off talking about how rude you are. You have insinuated I don’t understand something basic and foundational in the world of BBing yet I have an entire contest prep logging my progress, and I’m even coaching two people to some pretty good results in their own respective threads. Not bragging, but c’mon man. I’m doing well for myself and a few following my guidelines. If you treat everyone like a newb, don’t be surprised when they get defensive and start attacking back.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have discussed weight set point theory ad nauseum before. You really want me to repeat all of that here?
[/quote]
Yes.[/quote]
Then I am at work and can not oblige.
Do a search and see what you can find. I have done this before…and seriously, acting like it is my duty to repeat it all for you whenever you ask is pretty ridiculous.[/quote]
Then could you at least answer the question I asked that ended with “Is there an upper threshold?”
I quoted it again on page 26. If you search for the phrase “upper threshold”, you’ll find the question, with the associated context.[/quote]
Dude, I do not have the time to go searching for your questions. Post them here or leave it alone.
So far, asking me to repeat what I spent YEARS discussing here and then judging me because I don’t jump through hoops for you makes no sense at all.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I guess one of the things that’s frustrating for a guy like me on this forum is that all advice and attitudes presented in a thread like this seem to be geared for the “hard-gainers”…the guys who had trouble putting on size in the beginning.
Sure, the eat more, eat clean, don’t be super strict counting, see volume and strength go up week to week is awesome advice…FOR THEM.
Not for me, and not for those of us who get into the iron game because we are endomorphic and have trouble keeping weight OFF. To insinuate that because we need to count to keep calories in check we “don’t know our bodies very well” is complete bullshit.
What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.
So yea, I guess there’s a fullhouse and a lean gainz side on TNation right now, but what about us who can’t really take either approach without either being a complete fatass OR completely miserable and ready to chew off our own arm at any instant?
[/quote]
Nobody’s implying that if you keep track of your cals you ‘don’t know your body very well’ Or I wasn’t at least. Again, different strokes for different folks. But even in your example, after tracking cals for an extended period of time, you’d get an idea of what volume of food you can handle in a typical day, and what kind of results you’d get off of that. And overtime can develop the ability to make small incremental changes, without having to keep track of every calorie.
I’ve already stated that the best approach to the best gains is to keep track of cals, and adjust accordingly. But again, not everybody wants to do this.
Altho, I do believe every person should develop a basic sense of knowledge when it comes to food, nutrition, and calories etc. It will be a lot more easier to develop the ability to naturally do this without having to count calories. [/quote]
Once again good post.
I know what I eat regularly…so unless there are huge changes in diet being made, how hard would it be to get a rough idea of food intake?
This is about the progress made…which means if the guy got fucking huge, who cares that he didn’t track every calorie…and who cares that some skinny did?
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I guess one of the things that’s frustrating for a guy like me on this forum is that all advice and attitudes presented in a thread like this seem to be geared for the “hard-gainers”…the guys who had trouble putting on size in the beginning.
Sure, the eat more, eat clean, don’t be super strict counting, see volume and strength go up week to week is awesome advice…FOR THEM.
Not for me, and not for those of us who get into the iron game because we are endomorphic and have trouble keeping weight OFF. To insinuate that because we need to count to keep calories in check we “don’t know our bodies very well” is complete bullshit.
What about a thread for natty “bulking” for the rest of us?..the ones who are terrified of getting fat, because we actually get fat if we slip just a little.
So yea, I guess there’s a fullhouse and a lean gainz side on TNation right now, but what about us who can’t really take either approach without either being a complete fatass OR completely miserable and ready to chew off our own arm at any instant?
[/quote]
Nobody’s implying that if you keep track of your cals you ‘don’t know your body very well’ Or I wasn’t at least. Again, different strokes for different folks. But even in your example, after tracking cals for an extended period of time, you’d get an idea of what volume of food you can handle in a typical day, and what kind of results you’d get off of that. And overtime can develop the ability to make small incremental changes, without having to keep track of every calorie.
I’ve already stated that the best approach to the best gains is to keep track of cals, and adjust accordingly. But again, not everybody wants to do this.
Altho, I do believe every person should develop a basic sense of knowledge when it comes to food, nutrition, and calories etc. It will be a lot more easier to develop the ability to naturally do this without having to count calories. [/quote]
Good points, but it didn’t really address the question. Jake definitely has a handle on his ability to track calories and macros; e.g., he has a physique contest prep thread on here.
There’s the issue ecto/hardgainer/high-metabolism guys trying to gain muscle, and you, MG, and BCT have outlined a pretty similar approach… but for someone who puts on fat easier, how would approach muscle gain while remaining relatively lean? I agree that topic hasn’t really been addressed well.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dude, I do not have the time to go searching for your questions. Post them here or leave it alone.
So far, asking me to repeat what I spent YEARS discussing here and then judging me because I don’t jump through hoops for you makes no sense at all.[/quote]
It was on the last page. But I’ll requote… again.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I’m not sure how set point theory relates to the topic either. How does that explain more muscle mass in the 2nd person, after the fat loss, per the example quoted above?[/quote]
The idea is that the human body is adaptive in its response to gains in weight and that by your body being comfortable at a higher weight that may have caused strain previously, you can now grow more muscle into that weight reached. That is it about as simply as I can put it.
Given that, at what point would you say that you’ve gained “too much” fat? Assuming you’re actually able to get the food down and keep the training up, at some point you’ll be pushing 300 pounds, then 350, then 400, then 450, etc.
Is there an upper threshold?
EDIT: I mean, is there an upper threshold where the benefits of the additional weight don’t add any value. Diminishing returns etc.[/quote]
Another very specific question.[/quote]
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Given that, at what point would you say that you’ve gained “too much” fat? Assuming you’re actually able to get the food down and keep the training up, at some point you’ll be pushing 300 pounds, then 350, then 400, then 450, etc.
Is there an upper threshold?
[/quote]
This is individual. I hit 300lbs because I wasn’t morbidly obese and was gaining muscle. Someone with lesser genetics would be morbidly obese at that weight.
The idea is to be gaining enough muscle to justify any fat gain…not to gain fat to hit a 300lbs weight when you only have the muscle for 150lbs.
I still don’t see how this is some specific question that requires any sort of medical education.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Given that, at what point would you say that you’ve gained “too much” fat? Assuming you’re actually able to get the food down and keep the training up, at some point you’ll be pushing 300 pounds, then 350, then 400, then 450, etc.
Is there an upper threshold?
[/quote]
This is individual. I hit 300lbs because I wasn’t morbidly obese and was gaining muscle. Someone with lesser genetics would be morbidly obese at that weight.
The idea is to be gaining enough muscle to justify any fat gain…not to gain fat to hit a 300lbs weight when you only have the muscle for 150lbs.
I still don’t see how this is some specific question that requires any sort of medical education.[/quote]
You said that increased bodyfat is beneficial because of set point theory, because of increased joint lubrication, and because of better leverages.
I asked if there was an upper threshold where those benefits had diminishing returns.
You haven’t answered that question.
Yo PRof, I saw your vid with Thibs and you looks hiouuge
[quote]LoRez wrote:
You said that increased bodyfat is beneficial because of set point theory, because of increased joint lubrication, and because of better leverages.
I asked if there was an upper threshold where those benefits had diminishing returns.
You haven’t answered that question.[/quote]
BECAUSE THE ANSWER TO THAT IS BASED ON THE GENETICS OF THE INDIVIDUAL AND HOW FAT THAT PERSON CAN ACCEPT BEING.
What is an “upper threshold” for me will not hold for someone else.
There is no better way to put that.
[quote]jeanmich wrote:
Yo PRof, I saw your vid with Thibs and you looks hiouuge[/quote]
Thanks, man.