How to 'Bulk' For Naturals

Training
441

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
3. LOL yeah. We are all discussing a relation between size AND leanness. Ryan made a comment addressing Bauber’s bodyfat, correct? He’s lean, he should be able to do so in your eyes, considering one can’t really seem to have an opinion on a subject unless they personally have experienced it. Ryan didn’t comment on Bauber’s overall size I don’t think. So… he didn’t break your rule? Ryan DIDN’T make a comment on his size, and You CAN’T make one on anyone’s BF%. Cool[/quote]
Especially since I’m sure Ryan wasn’t trying to say Bauber would’ve gained as much or more muscle if he acquired less fat but that he felt that Bauber accumulated too much fat for his cut. There’s a difference.[/quote]

That makes even less sense.

If Ryan has never held that much muscle, he would know nothing about how hard it is to lose fat at that size.

Losing body fat is much easier the more muscle you carry.[/quote]

No, it doesn’t.

I believe he used other people’s experience for reference.

I haven’t really seen the evidence to where that statement is non-negligible within a relative short time span. The data samples are also tainted as the guys with most muscle are typically in a group among the most assisted. Someone that’s already assisted is more likely to use different hormones to facilitate their cut.

442

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
What I find hard to get my head round is the fact that as a natural, most people who get serious start looking into how to “optimise their hormonal environment” for muscle growth, and spend a literal fortune on supplements that may or may not have physiological effects.

Lets take a hypothetical.

A natural trainee finds a natural supplement which is anti catabolic in muscle tissue. He has an unlimited supply and can take it every day. He takes it religiously. There are some side effects.

Will he gain more muscle than another natural trainee who doesn’t take the supplement? Lets say they are identical twins, eat the same number of calories and protein and train exactly the same.

Brick I’d like your answer to this particularly.[/quote]

Captain no pics strikes again…preach on brother!![/quote]

Because pictures are a pre-requisite for logic and reason.

Geez I forgot.

Would you like a picture of my ass?
[/quote]

I have yet to see any logic from you[/quote]

Heres YOUR Logic. A=Units of anabolism; B=Units of Catabolism; X1=Net muscle tissue accrual with no supplement; X2=Net muscle tissue accrual with supplement

With no supplement:

If A-B=X1 and is a positive number, then muscle tissue accrual is occuring.

With supplement:

If A-B=X2 and X2>X1 then no more muscle tissue accrual is occuring

Not very logical my friend.

If anabolism combined with anti-catabolism is so ineffective, why do all pro bodybuilders use drug regimes that maximise both anabolism and reduce catabolism?
[/quote]

Too much logic ryan? Looks like you turned tail and ran.
[/quote]
!!!111111%}~~<_>

443

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

I believe he used other people’s experience for reference.[/quote]

How can he speak for someone else who doesn’t post here? Why should we believe that?

Weren’t there many posters ruinning after Massiveguns for a claim he made of someione he knew in the gym?

Why nmot the same reaction here?

I don’t believe it until I see video proof along with personal commentary responding to that direct question.

Have at it.

[quote]

I haven’t really seen the evidence to where that statement is non-negligible within a relative short time span. The data samples are also tainted as the guys with most muscle are typically in a group among the most assisted. Someone that’s already assisted is more likely to use different hormones to facilitate their cut.[/quote]

This can be true in some instances…but none of this explains what Ryan is writing…or why you or anyone else would support it.

444

Not trying to put words in Ryans’ keyboard, but Bauber said he plans to come in around 240 on stage. Assuming that’s accurate, dropping from a top weight of 319 (I think), is an 80lb cut. That is completely unnecessary, specifically for someone using assistance. He could’ve achieved similar results by reigning it in staying leaner, and saving himself a TON of extra work he now has to do to get contest ready. Also, I don’t mean any of this as a dig at Bauber. He comes across as cool guy who obviously knows his way around the weightroom.

445

Not trying to put words in Ryans’ keyboard, but Bauber said he plans to come in around 240 on stage. Assuming that’s accurate, dropping from a top weight of 319 (I think), is an 80lb cut. That is completely unnecessary, specifically for someone using assistance. He could’ve achieved similar results by reigning it in staying leaner, and saving himself a TON of extra work he now has to do to get contest ready. Also, I don’t mean any of this as a dig at Bauber. He comes across as cool guy who obviously knows his way around the weightroom.

446

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

I believe he used other people’s experience for reference.[/quote]

How can he speak for someone else who doesn’t post here? Why should we believe that?

Weren’t there many posters ruinning after Massiveguns for a claim he made of someione he knew in the gym?

Why nmot the same reaction here?

I don’t believe it until I see video proof along with personal commentary responding to that direct question.

Have at it.[/quote]
Credibility is a vector not a scalar. I also think I may know who Ryan is talking about it or, at least, the pool of people in which he falls. I’m not following the thread post by post but merely dropping in every now and then. I don’t remember anything about MassiveRuns’s brahsky.

[quote]

[quote]
I haven’t really seen the evidence to where that statement is non-negligible within a relative short time span. The data samples are also tainted as the guys with most muscle are typically in a group among the most assisted. Someone that’s already assisted is more likely to use different hormones to facilitate their cut.[/quote]

This can be true in some instances…but none of this explains what Ryan is writing…or why you or anyone else would support it.[/quote]
I’m speaking solely for myself. I’m not speaking next to Ryan but merely in the same room.

447

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

  1. Aren’t we talking about Ryan and Bauber? Fine, you are also now in this category, of wanting a very large and very lean physique. Nice to have you aboard.
    [/quote]

I wasn’t aware that was in question.

[quote]
2. Ryan wasn’t giving his opinion.[/quote]

He was. That is why he said that Bauber gained too much fat.

[quote]
The person Ryan referred to in previous posts who is roughly the same size as Bauber, who is also cutting but pretty damn lean already, gained without having to put on as near as much fat.[/quote]

Who??? It isn’t and never has been about carrying some specific amount of body fat…/.or gaining some amount of body fat.

It is about the approach…so until we talk to this guy you speak of, all of this is in the air.

[quote]

There are people who’ve gotten to that size, without having to get that sloppy.[/quote]

I don’t see Bauber as “sloppy”. If I saw him in the gym I would be very impressed with what he built. It matters little what you think of how fat someone got…and no one is saying that getting “sloppy” is necessary for growth. That is up to the GENETICS OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

[quote]

Ryan was just giving his opinion,[/quote]

You just said he didn’t give an opinion.

[quote]

  1. LOL yeah. We are all discussing a relation between size AND leanness. Ryan made a comment addressing Bauber’s bodyfat, correct? He’s lean, he should be able to do so in your eyes, considering one can’t really seem to have an opinion on a subject unless they personally have experienced it. [/quote]

Then how can he claim he gained too much fat to reach that size?

You are now saying ryan was making a statement that Bauber is too fat…to be Ryan’s size?

Wow…some of you will do anything to defend the “posse”.

He didn’t give an opinion…but he did.[/quote]

Whoops, accidentally put ‘wasn’t’ instead of was in “Ryan wasn’t giving his opinion”. Typing from my phones so sorry for errors in theses posts. So disregard that random mistype lol.

Anywho… So because we don’t name specific names, we can’t use them as examples? You’ve claimed multiple times that guys at your gym’s development surpass those who have pretty solid physiques, but don’t name names? You said you’re related to a pro athlete, but unless we talk to him are we to assume you are lying? C’mon dude…

So Ryan thinks Bauber got sloppy. Seriously who cares? Like this is a website about physique development? Is everyone suppose to post pics and no matter what everyone’s just suppose to say “great job, you’re doing perfect”? Ryan just said he felt Bauber got a little sloppy, and that he probably didn’t need to get put on that much BF to achieve the size he will be in contest shape. I don’t think 60+ lbs from contest shape is ‘optimal’ either if the goal is too compete. Don’t think that’s all too insulting, and it seems you’re getting more upset about this then Bauber would haha.

And you say you’d be impressed with what Bauber has built if you see him in the gym, yet say immediately after say it matters little of how fat I think someone’s gotten. If it matters little what I think about someone’s physique, why in the hell would you even mention what you think of it? We may have differing opinions, but apparently neither really matter. So why bring it up?

And WTF is this ‘posse’? Who is it? What’s the group name? Please tell me. I’m just stating my opinion on a subject. But regardless, yeah, considering once again we are discussing being BIG AND LEAN, with LEAN being half that equation, how can Ryan not say he may have strayed too far from one half of the goal? Bauber is competing. He’s not just getting big for the sake of being big. It’s inevitable for people commenting to talk about leanness in reference to size and vice versa, because in the BIGGER, stronger, LEANER forum, they are all apart of the goal. I thought you gathered that I think it’s dumb to even say certain people can’t comment on this aspect while others can’t, but apparently you really believe that to be a good idea. LOL. I think it’s silly that you wouldn’t be able to comment on someone’s leanness because you’ve never hit an arbitrary number on BF reading, because I feel you have enough experience to make said comment. So it’s just as stupid to say Ryan can’t comment on anything remotely referencing someone’s size because he hasn’t hit an arbitrary number on scale.

448

[quote]Mtag666 wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Lol is all I can say to your attitude [/quote]

What attitude?

You are telling a freaking MONSTER that he got too fat…when you personally look like a beginner next to him. What attitude is involved in noticing maybe you need to listen to guys like that?[/quote]

Have you seen a pic of Ryan? He doesn’t look like a ‘beginner’. lol
[/quote]

220 with abs is “beginner” now? Dang, I need a new hobby[/quote]

Are you kidding me? I know guys that just play basketball and eat mcdonalds all day that are bigger than that.
[/quote]
You haven’t played NEARLY as much basketball as they have and you’re criticizing their size?
Are you kidding me?

449

To X: Size trumps everything. Nothing else seems to matter. It makes it impossible to have a discussion with him. He acts like a child.

450

Come on guy! Only 26 more pages to go in circles till Prof X gets his next box of free MAG-10!

451

Hey guys what’s going on in here??..X is using an assisted monster like Bauber to prove his “point” and acting like a asshole at the same time…all is well…happy weekend!

and massivelulz is still talking shit with no pics…good to know I can go fishing for 5 days and not miss anything.

452

Am I the only one who has considered the possibility that PX’s account is managed by SEVERAL Biotest employees?

It explains:

  1. ultra-high frequency of posts
  2. inconsistencies from post to post
  3. the tone of the posts aimed at encouraging people to re-read earlier parts of the thread or other threads to generate more traffic to the site
  4. the idiocy of the posts aimed at convincing people they must do the opposite of what he says and go buy all the supps they can in an effort to make the leanest gainz possible (i.e. do i have to remind you this is the guy who endorses pre-fatiguing triceps before chest pressing work in order to make sure your CHEST gets worked harder)

Like I’m sure one of them is the big guy always posing with his tank top right after a carbed up pump workout in the bathroom’s flattering down lighting we always see in his avi, but there’s more to it. ONE man is not capable of getting under the skin of so many respected posters for so long!!

453

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Not trying to put words in Ryans’ keyboard, but Bauber said he plans to come in around 240 on stage. Assuming that’s accurate, dropping from a top weight of 319 (I think), is an 80lb cut. That is completely unnecessary, specifically for someone using assistance. He could’ve achieved similar results by reigning it in staying leaner, and saving himself a TON of extra work he now has to do to get contest ready. Also, I don’t mean any of this as a dig at Bauber. He comes across as cool guy who obviously knows his way around the weightroom.[/quote]

I put on more fat this year than I had planned to. Went through a lot of depression this year and depression for me makes me want to eat A LOT. Have been through 8 months of grief counseling and it is finally starting to get better. I don’t wish losing a loved one on my worst enemy, especially not the love of your life. For my body type that type of stress and mental grief wreaks havoc on my body staving fat off. Not an excuse by any means just reality and now I have more work to do by losing more fat that I had wanted to.

6 months out of the last year I was off all assistance of any kind. I didn’t lose much strength per say or size, but I definitely got softer and packed on more fat. Been back on for about a month now and definitely seeing body composition changing for the better. My goal from now on is to keep abs visible year round to keep dieting difficulty down.

Not here to get into any he said this and he said that. Just here to offer what I can and pick up advice and information along the way. Have I packed on a ton of strength and muscle in the past 4 years? For me, you bet. Too much fat too? You bet. Life is about the journey, growing and realizing your mistakes and how to change things for the better. Has my path been ideal? No, but it is my path and the person I am today is a culmination of all the shit I have done and been through, good and bad.

454

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who has considered the possibility that PX’s account is managed by SEVERAL Biotest employees?

[/quote]
Nope I mentioned that possibility a few weeks ago and I think others before me. Yeah that PX bloke is a troll alright because the alternative is far too sad to contemplate.

455

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Not trying to put words in Ryans’ keyboard, but Bauber said he plans to come in around 240 on stage. Assuming that’s accurate, dropping from a top weight of 319 (I think), is an 80lb cut. That is completely unnecessary, specifically for someone using assistance. He could’ve achieved similar results by reigning it in staying leaner, and saving himself a TON of extra work he now has to do to get contest ready. Also, I don’t mean any of this as a dig at Bauber. He comes across as cool guy who obviously knows his way around the weightroom.[/quote]

I put on more fat this year than I had planned to. Went through a lot of depression this year and depression for me makes me want to eat A LOT. Have been through 8 months of grief counseling and it is finally starting to get better. I don’t wish losing a loved one on my worst enemy, especially not the love of your life. For my body type that type of stress and mental grief wreaks havoc on my body staving fat off. Not an excuse by any means just reality and now I have more work to do by losing more fat that I had wanted to.

6 months out of the last year I was off all assistance of any kind. I didn’t lose much strength per say or size, but I definitely got softer and packed on more fat. Been back on for about a month now and definitely seeing body composition changing for the better. My goal from now on is to keep abs visible year round to keep dieting difficulty down.

Not here to get into any he said this and he said that. Just here to offer what I can and pick up advice and information along the way. Have I packed on a ton of strength and muscle in the past 4 years? For me, you bet. Too much fat too? You bet. Life is about the journey, growing and realizing your mistakes and how to change things for the better. Has my path been ideal? No, but it is my path and the person I am today is a culmination of all the shit I have done and been through, good and bad.[/quote]
Glad to hear you’re overcoming your hardships. My sincere condolences. Keep being a beast.

456

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who has considered the possibility that PX’s account is managed by SEVERAL Biotest employees?

It explains:

  1. ultra-high frequency of posts
  2. inconsistencies from post to post
  3. the tone of the posts aimed at encouraging people to re-read earlier parts of the thread or other threads to generate more traffic to the site
  4. the idiocy of the posts aimed at convincing people they must do the opposite of what he says and go buy all the supps they can in an effort to make the leanest gainz possible (i.e. do i have to remind you this is the guy who endorses pre-fatiguing triceps before chest pressing work in order to make sure your CHEST gets worked harder)

Like I’m sure one of them is the big guy always posing with his tank top right after a carbed up pump workout in the bathroom’s flattering down lighting we always see in his avi, but there’s more to it. ONE man is not capable of getting under the skin of so many respected posters for so long!![/quote]
lol that’s been stated before

457

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Not trying to put words in Ryans’ keyboard, but Bauber said he plans to come in around 240 on stage. Assuming that’s accurate, dropping from a top weight of 319 (I think), is an 80lb cut. That is completely unnecessary, specifically for someone using assistance. He could’ve achieved similar results by reigning it in staying leaner, and saving himself a TON of extra work he now has to do to get contest ready. Also, I don’t mean any of this as a dig at Bauber. He comes across as cool guy who obviously knows his way around the weightroom.[/quote]

I put on more fat this year than I had planned to. Went through a lot of depression this year and depression for me makes me want to eat A LOT. Have been through 8 months of grief counseling and it is finally starting to get better. I don’t wish losing a loved one on my worst enemy, especially not the love of your life. For my body type that type of stress and mental grief wreaks havoc on my body staving fat off. Not an excuse by any means just reality and now I have more work to do by losing more fat that I had wanted to.

6 months out of the last year I was off all assistance of any kind. I didn’t lose much strength per say or size, but I definitely got softer and packed on more fat. Been back on for about a month now and definitely seeing body composition changing for the better. My goal from now on is to keep abs visible year round to keep dieting difficulty down.

Not here to get into any he said this and he said that. Just here to offer what I can and pick up advice and information along the way. Have I packed on a ton of strength and muscle in the past 4 years? For me, you bet. Too much fat too? You bet. Life is about the journey, growing and realizing your mistakes and how to change things for the better. Has my path been ideal? No, but it is my path and the person I am today is a culmination of all the shit I have done and been through, good and bad.[/quote]
Glad to hear you’re overcoming your hardships. My sincere condolences. Keep being a beast.[/quote]

Thank you! And I shall do my best.

458

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Not trying to put words in Ryans’ keyboard, but Bauber said he plans to come in around 240 on stage. Assuming that’s accurate, dropping from a top weight of 319 (I think), is an 80lb cut. That is completely unnecessary, specifically for someone using assistance. He could’ve achieved similar results by reigning it in staying leaner, and saving himself a TON of extra work he now has to do to get contest ready. Also, I don’t mean any of this as a dig at Bauber. He comes across as cool guy who obviously knows his way around the weightroom.[/quote]

I put on more fat this year than I had planned to. Went through a lot of depression this year and depression for me makes me want to eat A LOT. Have been through 8 months of grief counseling and it is finally starting to get better. I don’t wish losing a loved one on my worst enemy, especially not the love of your life. For my body type that type of stress and mental grief wreaks havoc on my body staving fat off. Not an excuse by any means just reality and now I have more work to do by losing more fat that I had wanted to.

6 months out of the last year I was off all assistance of any kind. I didn’t lose much strength per say or size, but I definitely got softer and packed on more fat. Been back on for about a month now and definitely seeing body composition changing for the better. My goal from now on is to keep abs visible year round to keep dieting difficulty down.

Not here to get into any he said this and he said that. Just here to offer what I can and pick up advice and information along the way. Have I packed on a ton of strength and muscle in the past 4 years? For me, you bet. Too much fat too? You bet. Life is about the journey, growing and realizing your mistakes and how to change things for the better. Has my path been ideal? No, but it is my path and the person I am today is a culmination of all the shit I have done and been through, good and bad.[/quote]
Glad to hear you’re overcoming your hardships. My sincere condolences. Keep being a beast.[/quote]

X2 bro…keep rolling

459

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I don’t wish losing a loved one on my worst enemy, especially not the love of your life.[/quote]

you’re good people Bauber. I can’t imagine what that must’ve been like and I hope to never find out.

I hope everything works out for you man, seriously.

460

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I don’t wish losing a loved one on my worst enemy, especially not the love of your life.[/quote]

you’re good people Bauber. I can’t imagine what that must’ve been like and I hope to never find out.

I hope everything works out for you man, seriously.[/quote]

Many thanks rds and to all of you guys. I nearly gave up lifting and everything after losing her. She was my main source of inspiration for competing and really did so much for me (cooking all my meals, having my shakes ready for the day, being my number 1 fan, and always believing in me not matter what) I was lost when she was gone.