[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
I just wanted to add to this thread that i feel great at about 10 percent body fat—i have better workouts, dont get sick, feel healthier etc— not like when i around 18-20—where i felt like crap all day eating so much, got sick frequently, sometimes puked at the gym due to excess food intake.
so for me being leaner has helped me- never miss a workout or meal and have better training sessions.
well we’re pretty far off topic now arent we :P[/quote]
I agree with this. While I don’t disagree with the initial bulk up for a beginner (not excessively though), I feel like for someone that’s been doing this for a while that looking good+proper nutrients=feeling good and translates into better workouts. [/quote]
…and that point where they feel good would be different for everyone. I am at the heaviest weight I have been in a year. I feel good at this level of body fat even though it isn’t my final goal. I have enough energy for workouts and my conditioning is fine for where I am now.
? Everyone here isn’t trying to compete…so why would me dieting for competition limit all discussion on GAINING LEAN BODY MASS since that is what this thread is about?[/quote]
Because you are talking about setpoints in order to increase how much lbm you can maintain after leaning down and we are saying that you wouldnt maintain any more lbm then if you hadnt maintained that “setpoint”
[/quote]
…and many people other than me are telling you they do not agree with you.
Your other posts that were nothing more than insults or personal attacks were deleted.
[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
I just wanted to add to this thread that i feel great at about 10 percent body fat—i have better workouts, dont get sick, feel healthier etc— not like when i around 18-20—where i felt like crap all day eating so much, got sick frequently, sometimes puked at the gym due to excess food intake.
so for me being leaner has helped me- never miss a workout or meal and have better training sessions.
well we’re pretty far off topic now arent we :P[/quote]
I agree with this. While I don’t disagree with the initial bulk up for a beginner (not excessively though), I feel like for someone that’s been doing this for a while that looking good+proper nutrients=feeling good and translates into better workouts. [/quote]
…and that point where they feel good would be different for everyone. I am at the heaviest weight I have been in a year. I feel good at this level of body fat even though it isn’t my final goal. I have enough energy for workouts and my conditioning is fine for where I am now.
It is all individual.[/quote]
True, there are 250lb pound women that think they’re beautiful, feel good about themselves and won’t try to lose weight. But I bet they would feel better if they dropped a few pounds.
[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
I just wanted to add to this thread that i feel great at about 10 percent body fat—i have better workouts, dont get sick, feel healthier etc— not like when i around 18-20—where i felt like crap all day eating so much, got sick frequently, sometimes puked at the gym due to excess food intake.
so for me being leaner has helped me- never miss a workout or meal and have better training sessions.
well we’re pretty far off topic now arent we :P[/quote]
I agree with this. While I don’t disagree with the initial bulk up for a beginner (not excessively though), I feel like for someone that’s been doing this for a while that looking good+proper nutrients=feeling good and translates into better workouts. [/quote]
…and that point where they feel good would be different for everyone. I am at the heaviest weight I have been in a year. I feel good at this level of body fat even though it isn’t my final goal. I have enough energy for workouts and my conditioning is fine for where I am now.
It is all individual.[/quote]
True, there are 250lb pound women that think they’re beautiful, feel good about themselves and won’t try to lose weight. But I bet they would feel better if they dropped a few pounds. [/quote]
Interesting. I am talking about someone who is carrying a great deal of muscle with a goal of carrying more.
? Everyone here isn’t trying to compete…so why would me dieting for competition limit all discussion on GAINING LEAN BODY MASS since that is what this thread is about?[/quote]
Because you are talking about setpoints in order to increase how much lbm you can maintain after leaning down and we are saying that you wouldnt maintain any more lbm then if you hadnt maintained that “setpoint”
[/quote]
FWIW, I believe that Lonnie Lowrey has spent a good number of old Iron Radio podcasts discussing set points, and he seems to be a believer in the principle. In fact, right now he’s trying to get to 220lbs and maintain it for a bit for that very purpose.
X: I forgot to address this. You mentioned people with knowledge bases far broader than mine. Well, there are people more knowledgable than I. However, I consider my knowledge pretty good. Not the best, but pretty good. I have an undergrad in nutrition and an MS in nutrition and exercise phys and I’m an RD. In addition to those degrees–again, much of which didn’t teach me much about sports nutrition in APPLICATION as I said here before–I’ve been reading up on nutrition and lifting in magazines for a long time, in addition to attending several seminars by the authors of this site: Defranco, our very own Stu, Gaglione, Ian King, Paul Chek, Tom Bumgardner, and Jim Wendler.
I DON’T even like mentioning my formal education on this site because it comes across as being pedantic and most on here don’t want to hear about someone’s degrees.
One need not do much more studying to have a decent knowledge base to lift a damn weight.
I’ve also directly challenged your knowledge base before only for you to ignore the challenge.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Back on the topic of the thread, I do believe in set points. I was 190 pounds before I started training, all skin and bones. If I ate exactly as I was eating before I started training, I would not drop back down to 190 pounds, I found it hard while DIETING to get lower than 230 pounds. Isn’t that what we’re talking about? My body’s set point before training was 190 pounds, today it is most definitely higher. [/quote]
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
X: I forgot to address this. You mentioned people with knowledge bases far broader than mine. Well, there are people more knowledgable than I. However, I consider my knowledge pretty good. Not the best, but pretty good. I have an undergrad in nutrition and an MS in nutrition and exercise phys and I’m an RD. In addition to those degrees–again, much of which didn’t teach me much about sports nutrition in APPLICATION as I said here before–I’ve been reading up on nutrition and lifting in magazines for a long time, in addition to attending several seminars by the authors of this site: Defranco, our very own Stu, Gaglione, Ian King, Paul Chek, Tom Bumgardner, and Jim Wendler.
I DON’T even like mentioning my formal education on this site because it comes across as being pedantic and most on here don’t want to hear about someone’s degrees.
One need not do much more studying to have a decent knowledge base to lift a damn weight.
I’ve also directly challenged your knowledge base before only for you to ignore the challenge. [/quote]
? You can challenge me all you wish. I never said you were not educated. I commented about your statement that you discuss this with people who don’t know anything. That isn’t this site. The points I made in this thread were valid. You can argue them all you wish…but the attitude lately as if I am just trolling the forum or that everything I write is nonsense is just ridiculous.
You seem to have no problem with this…but a major problem if anyone mentions they are also well educated in the very topic we are discussing.
We are discussing something that relates very well to BIOLOGY…and not just training, Not to mention that you aren’t speaking to people who don’t train either.
? Everyone here isn’t trying to compete…so why would me dieting for competition limit all discussion on GAINING LEAN BODY MASS since that is what this thread is about?[/quote]
Because you are talking about setpoints in order to increase how much lbm you can maintain after leaning down and we are saying that you wouldnt maintain any more lbm then if you hadnt maintained that “setpoint”
[/quote]
FWIW, I believe that Lonnie Lowrey has spent a good number of old Iron Radio podcasts discussing set points, and he seems to be a believer in the principle. In fact, right now he’s trying to get to 220lbs and maintain it for a bit for that very purpose.[/quote]
That is interesting.
Once again, the entire fitness or bodybuilding industry does not agree with zraw on everything.
ALL of us should want people to get info from as many viable sources as possible…not just whatever is seen as “most popular” to whatever crowd frequents the board.
One last thing…I will likely be away from the board most of this week. Right now, there is a decent discussion going on. Right now, there is an exchange of ideas and people can actually learn something.
if that changes from this point…it is because those of you here to troll allowed it to happen.
It is pretty much up to all of you to elevate the level of discussion on this forum.
Allowing every thread to turn to shit because some posters here have a personal vendetta only stops others from learning.
I’m not in any way against getting soft when bulking. I am against getting obese, which in my opinion is over 20% for someone not holding a whole lot of muscle and even for a bigger guy with a whole lot of muscle going more than a couple % over that is in my opinion when you start to border extreme.
with that being said I don’t know why you brought up this thread?
[/quote]
Because it’s a cool thread.
Look, sometimes people add fat when gaining. Sometimes too much. But, here’s the thing-- It ain’t the end of the world. The gravitas some posters add in their posts make it seem that it’s the end of the fucking world if someone adds “too much fat” (whatever that means).
“Too fat” is a point in time. A snapshot. Maybe it’s a means to an end. Maybe someone is willing to hold more fat because they enjoy it. People on this site look at someones “smooth” avatar or prog pic and deride them like that’s how they’re going to look forever. It’s ridiculous.
Here’s what I tell my single digit aged kids “You worry about you”. They get it.
In 5 years I have completely transformed my body 3 times. Guess what-- the human body is dynamic, always in flux.
Personally speaking, it took me a few years to get me to current weight/strength level I am now. It was slow gaining weight and strength, especially at my age. Then, I managed to stay about this weight and lean out while maintaining stregnth. Set point-- found. Now it’s slow coming down. That’s OK-- I got time.
I don’t have a degree in biology. However, I know my body well.
All I know is that I ate and ate a certain amount of food and at some point I stopped gaining weight on that amount of food. All I know is that by changing some of those foods out for other foods, but keeping the same caloric intake, my body started to change, but the weight stays the same. If I’m not consistent with eating my weight/strength just doesn’t drop off and I don’t shrivel up to nothing. My body seems to have found a comfortable place to be.
Is that a “set point”? I don’t know. I don’t care for the definition or the semantics. All I know is that I don’t have to work real hard at eating to stay at this weight anymore and if I want to gain, I’m going to have to start eating more to get it go up, or doing something different to lose it (eat less, more volume, or both).
Point is-- I’m just “doing” and reporting the results. I don’t know (or care) if it’s “right” or “wrong”-- it just “is”.