How Long to Stay at Weight After Bulk?

Training
281

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

When people discuss the uppermost amount of LBM people have carried at specific bodyfat percentages, they’re not saying to people they shouldn’t do with their bodies what the please.
[/quote]

Once again, the reason this even catches flack is because the entire basis of this is weak. It doesn’t matter what “most people in natural bodybuilding reached”. It is nothing but a nice number to maybe know or keep in the back of your mind after you already got big.

I would look at pro sports before that because I doubt most guys with FREAK genetics wake up one day and decide “natural bodybuilding” is their life goal.

282

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

When people discuss the uppermost amount of LBM people have carried at specific bodyfat percentages, they’re not saying to people they shouldn’t do with their bodies what the please.
[/quote]

Once again, the reason this even catches flack is because the entire basis of this is weak. It doesn’t matter what “most people in natural bodybuilding reached”. It is nothing but a nice number to maybe know or keep in the back of your mind after you already got big.

I would look at pro sports before that because I doubt most guys with FREAK genetics wake up one day and decide “natural bodybuilding” is their life goal.[/quote]

We’ve discussed this before. Not everyone with freak genetics makes it to the pro or elite ranks of sports either. There isn’t an infinite amount of spots in pro sports and most people don’t have the proper resources or backing to make it.

283

I’ve been on the fence about this whole thing since I started training. I know I personally got too soft in my bulk which included 100 lb weight gain (but god damn I looked good in clothes).

It sounds great to be able to stay lean and gain muscle at the same rate as those getting a bit soft.

But empirical evidence seems to show all really big dudes bulked up at some point. I can’t help but think that’s not a coincidence.

284

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

We’ve discussed this before. Not everyone with freak genetics makes it to the pro or elite ranks of sports either. There isn’t an infinite amount of spots in pro sports and most people don’t have the proper resources or backing to make it. [/quote]

??/ That isn’t the point. If you limit “your understanding of real physical limits” to ONLY PEOPLE WHO COMPETED IN NATURAL BODYBUILDING it ignores several important factors that eliminate the validity of ONLY using that pool of info.

  1. Most humans want money, fame and sex…as some ultimate life goal.

  2. Natural bodybuilding would be the least productive way to reach those goals if someone has amazing genetics for physical development and strength.

  3. Therefore, it is doubtful that the people with THE BEST GENETICS IN THE WORLD would ever worry about natural bodybuilding…even though there are some very gifted natural bodybuilders.

285

Back on the topic of the thread, I do believe in set points. I was 190 pounds before I started training, all skin and bones. If I ate exactly as I was eating before I started training, I would not drop back down to 190 pounds, I found it hard while DIETING to get lower than 230 pounds. Isn’t that what we’re talking about? My body’s set point before training was 190 pounds, today it is most definitely higher.

286

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Back on the topic of the thread, I do believe in set points. I was 190 pounds before I started training, all skin and bones. If I ate exactly as I was eating before I started training, I would not drop back down to 190 pounds, I found it hard while DIETING to get lower than 230 pounds. Isn’t that what we’re talking about? My body’s set point before training was 190 pounds, today it is most definitely higher. [/quote]

That’s what most big people I have ever met noticed.

I am wondering how this became “X’s theory”.

Bluecollartrain alone in this thread should eliminate the focus on me alone and keep this thread on topic.

287

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’ve been on the fence about this whole thing since I started training. I know I personally got too soft in my bulk which included 100 lb weight gain (but god damn I looked good in clothes).

It sounds great to be able to stay lean and gain muscle at the same rate as those getting a bit soft.

But empirical evidence seems to show all really big dudes bulked up at some point. I can’t help but think that’s not a coincidence.
[/quote]

Alternatively, it seems be a predictable “mistake” to make as a beginner, given basic human psychology. Self-delusion comes easy when the weights and scale go up and you look better in clothes.

288

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Back on the topic of the thread, I do believe in set points. I was 190 pounds before I started training, all skin and bones. If I ate exactly as I was eating before I started training, I would not drop back down to 190 pounds, I found it hard while DIETING to get lower than 230 pounds. Isn’t that what we’re talking about? My body’s set point before training was 190 pounds, today it is most definitely higher. [/quote]

That’s what most big people I have ever met noticed.

I am wondering how this became “X’s theory”.

Bluecollartrain alone in this thread should eliminate the focus on me alone and keep this thread on topic.[/quote]

The thread shifted a bit to the never ending “bulk or stay lean” argument, but I don’t see how set points is even debatable. When I was 190 pounds, not training, not very active and eating whatever the hell I wanted, I stayed 190 pounds. When I was dieting I was very active, eating very little and I found it hard to get down below 230 pounds.

The body seems to appreciate homeostasis, which is exactly what a weight set point is.

289

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’ve been on the fence about this whole thing since I started training. I know I personally got too soft in my bulk which included 100 lb weight gain (but god damn I looked good in clothes).

It sounds great to be able to stay lean and gain muscle at the same rate as those getting a bit soft.

But empirical evidence seems to show all really big dudes bulked up at some point. I can’t help but think that’s not a coincidence.
[/quote]

Alternatively, it seems be a predictable “mistake” to make as a beginner, given basic human psychology. Self-delusion comes easy when the weights and scale go up and you look better in clothes.[/quote]

Yeah, it could be that every built man has made the same mistake. But like I said, I can’t help but think it’s NOT a coincidence.

290

Please keep this thread on topic.

291

WOW joined the boards because a fellow member sent me here because they said I could offer some good information. I posted on here 36 hours ago and now there’s 8 PAGES that I had to catch up with…

Started to read them, and it’s like watching a version of the “Jerry Springer” show. Don’t know about this site.

292

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’ve been on the fence about this whole thing since I started training. I know I personally got too soft in my bulk which included 100 lb weight gain (but god damn I looked good in clothes).

It sounds great to be able to stay lean and gain muscle at the same rate as those getting a bit soft.

But empirical evidence seems to show all really big dudes bulked up at some point. I can’t help but think that’s not a coincidence.
[/quote]

Alternatively, it seems be a predictable “mistake” to make as a beginner, given basic human psychology. Self-delusion comes easy when the weights and scale go up and you look better in clothes.[/quote]

Yeah, it could be that every built man has made the same mistake. But like I said, I can’t help but think it’s NOT a coincidence. [/quote]

Also, there is a difference between someone with some true “small man syndrome” and a guy who is all out trying to get really big. Self delusion would be becoming truly obese yet seeing only muscle. Most of the guys I know who did bulk up knew very well what their goal was and where they stood at the moment.

I don’t think any of us are discussing someone who is literally just fat but thinks they are built.

293

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’ve been on the fence about this whole thing since I started training. I know I personally got too soft in my bulk which included 100 lb weight gain (but god damn I looked good in clothes).

It sounds great to be able to stay lean and gain muscle at the same rate as those getting a bit soft.

But empirical evidence seems to show all really big dudes bulked up at some point. I can’t help but think that’s not a coincidence.
[/quote]

Alternatively, it seems be a predictable “mistake” to make as a beginner, given basic human psychology. Self-delusion comes easy when the weights and scale go up and you look better in clothes.[/quote]

Yeah, it could be that every built man has made the same mistake. But like I said, I can’t help but think it’s NOT a coincidence. [/quote]

I don’t consider having ‘gotten a little soft’ as a mistake. I think it is what is required to establish the current boundry. Like missing a ‘top-end’ attempt every now and then. Not a place to spend an extended period of time, but you can ‘pound the living shit’ out of your body and survive; and learn a great deal about yourself in the process.

294

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’ve been on the fence about this whole thing since I started training. I know I personally got too soft in my bulk which included 100 lb weight gain (but god damn I looked good in clothes).

It sounds great to be able to stay lean and gain muscle at the same rate as those getting a bit soft.

But empirical evidence seems to show all really big dudes bulked up at some point. I can’t help but think that’s not a coincidence.
[/quote]

Alternatively, it seems be a predictable “mistake” to make as a beginner, given basic human psychology. Self-delusion comes easy when the weights and scale go up and you look better in clothes.[/quote]

Yeah, it could be that every built man has made the same mistake. But like I said, I can’t help but think it’s NOT a coincidence. [/quote]

I don’t consider having ‘gotten a little soft’ as a mistake. I think it is what is required to establish the current boundry. Like missing a ‘top-end’ attempt every now and then. Not a place to spend an extended period of time, but you can ‘pound the living shit’ out of your body and survive; and learn a great deal about yourself in the process. [/quote]

I agree. It had many benefits, if nothing else than to show me exactly what “limit” is comfortable for me to grow the fastest allowed by my genetics and work ethic. This is a game of trial and error.

Anyone acting like the path is already mapped out before they begin does not understand biology very well.

295

[quote]Professor X wrote:

? Everyone here isn’t trying to compete…so why would me dieting for competition limit all discussion on GAINING LEAN BODY MASS since that is what this thread is about?[/quote]

Because you are talking about setpoints in order to increase how much lbm you can maintain after leaning down and we are saying that you wouldnt maintain any more lbm then if you hadnt maintained that “setpoint”

296

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

I’m not in any way against getting soft when bulking. I am against getting obese, which in my opinion is over 20% for someone not holding a whole lot of muscle and even for a bigger guy with a whole lot of muscle going more than a couple % over that is in my opinion when you start to border extreme.

with that being said I don’t know why you brought up this thread?

Most of those guys (excluding Priest) although soft arn’t fat or far off from a 16 weeks show prep.

Also I’d like to mention these days top pros seem to be staying leaner in the off season than in the past.

Now whether bulking was necessary for them to get that big in the first place… I really don’t think so… I’m assuming with the genetics and drug response of a top pro I’m sure they could have stayed at 15% or less and gained the amount of muscle they have.

But as a natty I think staying leaner CAN POSSIBLY be way more important because hormonally everyone is optimal at a certain bf % which can differ from person to person.

I know at 250lbs at/near/or over 30% I destroyed my endocrine system and it wasn’t until I lost about 40 pounds and got under 18% that a lot of the symptoms of a shitty hormonal started to slowly go away.

Also by the end of this I would have spent 1 year and 3 months cutting. This is a long time to spend not eating enough to support real gains for someone who is interested in bodybuilding.

Only if I would have spent a little less time shoving food in my mouth I could have probably done a normal 3-6 month cut and spent the rest of the year focusing on moving forward rather than stagnating/maybe even moving backwards.

Moral of the story.
Getting fat is not okay. Staying too lean for some can also keep you from gaining muscle as well…but we all know this.
[/quote]

I do believe most people on this site and the planet would see 30% as too fat for anyone. I also do not think anyone should casually chill much over 20% for very long.

I also know that in regards to raising a setpoint, sometimes you do what is necessary…but I have NEVER seen anyone tell someone here to become fatter than 20% or ever try to. That would be a waste and way too much to lose later. There would also be too much possible physical damage.

Simply put, if you are “18%” yet growing faster than everyone telling you how fat you are, keep doing what you are doing unless you alone have some problem with the way you look.

Everyone doesn’t have the same genetic “sweet spot” for making gains.

297

[quote]Later_Z wrote:
WOW joined the boards because a fellow member sent me here because they said I could offer some good information. I posted on here 36 hours ago and now there’s 8 PAGES that I had to catch up with…

Started to read them, and it’s like watching a version of the “Jerry Springer” show. Don’t know about this site.[/quote]

Help us fix that…and keep posting.

298

I just wanted to add to this thread that i feel great at about 10 percent body fat—i have better workouts, dont get sick, feel healthier etc— not like when i around 18-20—where i felt like crap all day eating so much, got sick frequently, sometimes puked at the gym due to excess food intake.

so for me being leaner has helped me- never miss a workout or meal and have better training sessions.

well we’re pretty far off topic now arent we :stuck_out_tongue:

299

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

If I’m ostracized on Tiara Nation, so be it.
[/quote]

I was shocked when she was sent home. A real princess/drama queen (which reminds me of…). That type of girl aways seems to make it to the end. Oh well.

300

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
I just wanted to add to this thread that i feel great at about 10 percent body fat—i have better workouts, dont get sick, feel healthier etc— not like when i around 18-20—where i felt like crap all day eating so much, got sick frequently, sometimes puked at the gym due to excess food intake.

so for me being leaner has helped me- never miss a workout or meal and have better training sessions.

well we’re pretty far off topic now arent we :P[/quote]

I agree with this. While I don’t disagree with the initial bulk up for a beginner (not excessively though), I feel like for someone that’s been doing this for a while that looking good+proper nutrients=feeling good and translates into better workouts.