How Long to Stay at Weight After Bulk?

Training
261

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Why even bring that up here? [/quote]

Because it has to do with lifting and it’s permitted and NOT negative to talk about damn just anything related to lifting, similar to if I were on a track and field website and discussing the achievements of track and field athletes. It doesn’t limit the flow of information because reasonable people wouldn’t stop sharing information even if they weren’t fond of what I say here, whether it’s false or true.

We don’t even need Casey Butts to observe what’s been done in the past 50 years in bodybuilding. He just had the patience to analyze the data as he did in such detail. Same goes for Martin Berkhan, Lyle McDonald, and Alan Aragon, and anyone else who did the same.

And without all this nerdiness, one can just look at all the top naturals we see today.

262

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
What have you accomplished with bodybuilding that give you credibility.

You built a big, bulked up physique with muscle mass, but a lot of fat as well.

Nobody has seen you dieted down. Until you diet down, you have 0 credibility on your methods and procedures because, who knows if they’ve worked. They have never been put to the test by you.
[/quote]

Please people…although I may differ with X about paticulars…the approach he advocates built the majority of succesful bodybuilding from the early 70’s through the 90’s. That’s a whole lot of ‘knowing if they worked’ credibility.
[/quote]

Honestly, the X-witch hunt shit is played out…and I am betting many others are tired of this shit.

263

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Why even bring that up here? [/quote]

Because it has to do with lifting and it’s permitted and NOT negative to talk about damn just anything related to lifting, similar to if I were on a track and field website and discussing the achievements of track and field athletes. It doesn’t limit the flow of information because reasonable people wouldn’t stop sharing information even if they weren’t fond of what I say here, whether it’s false or true.

We don’t even need Casey Butts to observe what’s been done in the past 50 years in bodybuilding. He just had the patience to analyze the data as he did in such detail. Same goes for Martin Berkhan, Lyle McDonald, and Alan Aragon, and anyone else who did the same.

And without all this nerdiness, one can just look at all the top naturals we see today. [/quote]

Once again, not everyone agrees with you…and the attitude you and others show lately as if everyone here should agree with certain posters at all times is played out.

You post the same in most threads. Once again, everyone does not agree with you…and that includes people way more built than you.

264
265

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Why even bring that up here? [/quote]

Because it has to do with lifting and it’s permitted and NOT negative to talk about damn just anything related to lifting, similar to if I were on a track and field website and discussing the achievements of track and field athletes. It doesn’t limit the flow of information because reasonable people wouldn’t stop sharing information even if they weren’t fond of what I say here, whether it’s false or true.

We don’t even need Casey Butts to observe what’s been done in the past 50 years in bodybuilding. He just had the patience to analyze the data as he did in such detail. Same goes for Martin Berkhan, Lyle McDonald, and Alan Aragon, and anyone else who did the same.

And without all this nerdiness, one can just look at all the top naturals we see today. [/quote]

Once again, not everyone agrees with you…and the attitude you and others show lately as if everyone here should agree with certain posters at all times is played out.

You post the same in most threads. Once again, everyone does not agree with you…and that includes people way more built than you.[/quote]

Yeah, but here’s the thing: I don’t care if anyone agrees with me, and I’ll continue to say what I want so long as it’s civil.

Unlike some, I don’t live in a reality in which I watch my p’s and q’s simply because some guy’s big, nor am I awestruck, nor will I provide special attention this bigness… unless I’m actually viewing a bodybuilding show.

Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines.

266

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

Yeah, but here’s the thing: I don’t care if anyone agrees with me, and I’ll continue to say what I want so long as it’s civil.

Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Good to know…but this discussion isn’t with those people who don’t know shit. It is with people who do know shit and are equal if not having surpassed your own level of knowledge…and as you can see, more than just me disagrees with you in this thread…and look…bluecollartrain and steely d are both BIG dudes bigger than the guys telling them they are wrong.

Go fig.

267

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar

268

Actually what bluecollartrain is VERY reasonable and good and if I recall correctly, is different than what you espouse. I didn’t see what SteelyD said in the thread.

269

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar[/quote]

This is actually a good, true post. For quite some time I’ve been exhausted by Pub Med circle jerkers, many of whom like to cruise studies about the most asinine things.

270

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Actually what bluecollartrain is VERY reasonable and good and if I recall correctly, is different than what you espouse. I didn’t see what SteelyD said in the thread. [/quote]

It isn’t different at all. That is why I said QUOTE WHAT IS WRITTEN. Many of you don’t even seem to be trying to understand what I write because you have already ASSUMED all of it.

Bluecollartrain understands this…you are simply facing the same info from a different person and listening for once.

271

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar[/quote]

This is actually a good, true post. For quite some time I’ve been exhausted by Pub Med circle jerkers, many of whom like to cruise studies about the most asinine things. [/quote]

??But look at this thread. I am being argued with by a college student about BIOLOGY, my exact field of study. This discussion would never take place in real life.

272

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar[/quote]

Exactly. It’s gotten old. I am 255lbs at 5’10". Sorry guys if I think that means something. Clearly austin can claim he looks like a super star and has accomplished everything as regards to getting big and lean and no on cries out…yet if a huge dude who no one in real life is calling fat says the same…explosion of the posse.

Short of the NFL, the average weight lifter isn’t looking like me unless they do compete and are in the off season.

273

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar[/quote]

This is also why what StormtheBeach said is true in regarding academic schooling has little to do with lifting and sports nutrition.

274

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

Amen!

275

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar[/quote]

This is also why what StormtheBeach said is true in regarding academic schooling has little to do with lifting and sports nutrition. [/quote]

Que?

Look, if your doctor looks like they never touched a weight, don’t assume they know about bodybuilding or weight lifting…HOWEVER, if your doc walks into the office with 20" arms or bigger and trains daily, my guess is, he may be one of the best fucking people to listen to.

This statement made sense 20 years ago. Many docs lift today. You just have to find them.

276

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar[/quote]

This is also why what StormtheBeach said is true in regarding academic schooling has little to do with lifting and sports nutrition. [/quote]

All I mean by that is everyone is different and you do what you need to do based on your goals and level of comfort with respect to physique.

Lot of big, strong dudes in the gym who have no desire to compete in bodybuilding or be shredded. Personally, I fall into the ‘wanna be big, lift heavy, and don’t give a rat fuck about bitchez’.

I realize this is the “Bodybuilding Forum”, so maybe the standards are different than “Just Wanna Lift Really Heavy Shit and Be Big for the Sake of Being Big Because I Enjoy the Full House Look and the Lifestyle Forum”

My goal is to both be big and do bench meets. I don’t care if I carry some fat. Abs don’t help my bench. If I’m ostracized on Tiara Nation, so be it.

I like being a big dude. My wife likes me being a big dude. I’m 20 lbs from better abs (read 2 months). I like being a presence in the room (especially for future when my girls start bringing boys home). I don’t want to diet down to 170 Xtra-Medium. Nothing wrong with that, just not for me at this time.

You know what’s great about being “Over 35”, married, big, and comfortable with yourself? You don’t give a fuck what bitch princessez think.

277

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar[/quote]

This is also why what StormtheBeach said is true in regarding academic schooling has little to do with lifting and sports nutrition. [/quote]

All I mean by that is everyone is different and you do what you need to do based on your goals and level of comfort with respect to physique.

Lot of big, strong dudes in the gym who have no desire to compete in bodybuilding or be shredded. Personally, I fall into the ‘wanna be big, lift heavy, and don’t give a rat fuck about bitchez’.

I realize this is the “Bodybuilding Forum”, so maybe the standards are different than “Just Wanna Lift Really Heavy Shit and Be Big for the Sake of Being Big Because I Enjoy the Full House Look and the Lifestyle Forum”

My goal is to both be big and do bench meets. I don’t care if I carry some fat. Abs don’t help my bench. If I’m ostracized on Tiara Nation, so be it.

I like being a big dude. My wife likes me being a big dude. I’m 20 lbs from better abs (read 2 months). I like being a presence in the room (especially for future when my girls start bringing boys home). I don’t want to diet down to 170 Xtra-Medium. Nothing wrong with that, just not for me at this time.

You know what’s great about being “Over 35”, married, big, and comfortable with yourself? You don’t give a fuck what bitch princessez think.

[/quote]

Yet there seems to be some tidal wave of smaller dudes on this site lately acting like everyone should try to look like a cast member on Jersey Shore.

My goal was to be really muscular and really strong. I don’t see ANYONE else crying about how fat I am but the same people on this web site.

I have a career. getting on a stage for a plastic trophy and no pay isn’t number one on my list of things to accomplish.

I personally think gaining more lean body mass than most people talking shit is enough.

Casey Butt is not the end of discussion on bodybuilding…neither is Stu…neither is zraw…neither is Brick and neither am i.

The fucked up attitude on this board will only make sure that only the voice of a few wil;l ever be heard lately…when the truth is, most of the biggest dudes on the planet trained just like bluecollartrain wrote and what I wrote.

The insults aren’t even needed. I’m not obese…and no one in real life is calling me as such.

278

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Oh yes, there are people bigger than me who disagree with me. There are also people more built than I who don’t know their assess from their elbows and can’t explain much on training or nutrition to anyone and have succeeded on the goofiest of routines. [/quote]

Yep.

Just proves that all the highschool meangirl princessism, broscience, and PubMed abstract quoting on these boards amounts to nothing more than almost entertaining reading and wasted bandwidth.

Signed,
Ch33z3burgrz 4evar[/quote]

This is also why what StormtheBeach said is true in regarding academic schooling has little to do with lifting and sports nutrition. [/quote]

All I mean by that is everyone is different and you do what you need to do based on your goals and level of comfort with respect to physique.

Lot of big, strong dudes in the gym who have no desire to compete in bodybuilding or be shredded. Personally, I fall into the ‘wanna be big, lift heavy, and don’t give a rat fuck about bitchez’.

I realize this is the “Bodybuilding Forum”, so maybe the standards are different than “Just Wanna Lift Really Heavy Shit and Be Big for the Sake of Being Big Because I Enjoy the Full House Look and the Lifestyle Forum”

My goal is to both be big and do bench meets. I don’t care if I carry some fat. Abs don’t help my bench. If I’m ostracized on Tiara Nation, so be it.

I like being a big dude. My wife likes me being a big dude. I’m 20 lbs from better abs (read 2 months). I like being a presence in the room (especially for future when my girls start bringing boys home). I don’t want to diet down to 170 Xtra-Medium. Nothing wrong with that, just not for me at this time.

You know what’s great about being “Over 35”, married, big, and comfortable with yourself? You don’t give a fuck what bitch princessez think.

[/quote]

Great post.

And you’re right: no one should mind what others say about competitive bodybuilding standards or going for a sleaker look if the “full house” look is what they want.

When people discuss the uppermost amount of LBM people have carried at specific bodyfat percentages, they’re not saying to people they shouldn’t do with their bodies what the please.

If you like eating and putting up big benches, do it! The top benchers of all time were and are VERY large men: Kennelly, Chabot, Mendelson, Arcidi, Tokarski, Clark, et. al.

279

Let’s leave the petty shit aside for a moment, ok?

The original post pertained to the idea of set-point theory. I think X believes that we should attempt to increase set-points (or better settling points for those who know a bit) by keeping a certain higher bw before entering any cutting phase, in order that the body doesn’t cannibalize the hard-earned muscles.

I have three criticisms regarding X’s position:

(1) It seems that his case is built primarily on his personal experience (n=1). Weak evidence.

(2) Most of his evidence can be explained by simpler factors than the set-point theory. See his “missing-a-meal-losing-5lbs” example.

(3) From what I understand, the set point idea “basically says that the body will attempt to defend some body weight (or body fat) level (or perhaps range) by adjusting things such as metabolic rate, activity, hunger, etc. in response to changes in weight or fat.” In other words, the body might “fight” against reducing body FAT. Nowhere does it say that the body cannibalizes muscles to maintain/achieve some set point as X argues. It seems that he came up with it.

My conclusion: it seems that if we believe in set point theory (or better settling point theory), then we should minimize bf fat increases whenever possible because it would make the cutting phase THAT much harder.

280

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

I’m not in any way against getting soft when bulking. I am against getting obese, which in my opinion is over 20% for someone not holding a whole lot of muscle and even for a bigger guy with a whole lot of muscle going more than a couple % over that is in my opinion when you start to border extreme.

with that being said I don’t know why you brought up this thread?

Most of those guys (excluding Priest) although soft arn’t fat or far off from a 16 weeks show prep.

Also I’d like to mention these days top pros seem to be staying leaner in the off season than in the past.

Now whether bulking was necessary for them to get that big in the first place… I really don’t think so… I’m assuming with the genetics and drug response of a top pro I’m sure they could have stayed at 15% or less and gained the amount of muscle they have.

But as a natty I think staying leaner CAN POSSIBLY be way more important because hormonally everyone is optimal at a certain bf % which can differ from person to person.

I know at 250lbs at/near/or over 30% I destroyed my endocrine system and it wasn’t until I lost about 40 pounds and got under 18% that a lot of the symptoms of a shitty hormonal started to slowly go away.

Also by the end of this I would have spent 1 year and 3 months cutting. This is a long time to spend not eating enough to support real gains for someone who is interested in bodybuilding.

Only if I would have spent a little less time shoving food in my mouth I could have probably done a normal 3-6 month cut and spent the rest of the year focusing on moving forward rather than stagnating/maybe even moving backwards.

Moral of the story.
Getting fat is not okay. Staying too lean for some can also keep you from gaining muscle as well…but we all know this.