How Long to 'Relearn' an Exercise?

[Bue]

CT, I know you’re a proponent of training with a relatively high frequency while focusing on performance.

How long can one go without doing a given exercise before he’d have to “relearn” it?

Let’s say I wanted to bench press as often as every third or fourth day, but I had as many as 4 exercises, none of which I wanted to leave out, for example incline bench press, decline bench press, close-grip bench press, and dumbbell bench press.

Rotating these 4 exercises would mean that 12-16 days would pass before doing the same exercise again. Is this too long? Would it be counterproductive? Some say stick to one exercise, others (Westside) say rotate, and I’m confused.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Bue wrote:
CT, I know you’re a proponent of training with a relatively high frequency while focusing on performance.

How long can one go without doing a given exercise before he’d have to “relearn” it?

Let’s say I wanted to bench press as often as every third or fourth day, but I had as many as 4 exercises, none of which I wanted to leave out, for example incline bench press, decline bench press, close-grip bench press, and dumbbell bench press.

Rotating these 4 exercises would mean that 12-16 days would pass before doing the same exercise again. Is this too long? Would it be counterproductive? Some say stick to one exercise, others (Westside) say rotate, and I’m confused.[/quote]

Westside rotate… but they also perform the competition style bench press and box squat every week (speed days) so they can keep their form sharp on the main movement while using other exercises to get stronger.

[mrjasonbbc]

As long as you have some kind of horizontal pressing weekly, you won’t “unlearn” a movement. You might get slightly weaker but the fact is different movements synergize with other movements in the same plane. Barbell benching helps dumbbell benching with helps barbell benching.

I would advise though to at least hold on to one movement for a month so that you can gauge progress week to week, UNLESS it’s an accessory movement you don’t care about. People have made progress changing frequently and they’ve made progress almost never changing a movement. Why not see what works best for you?

A different question to ask that’s been answered already is how long to train a movement until you “adapt” to it and stop making noticeable gains on it.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

A decent point was made that I want to mention:

If you do not stick to the same movement for long enough, how can you make sure that you are progressively overloading the muscles? How does a 120lbs x 6 DB press (per DB) compare to a 280lbs x 4 bench press? How about a 215lbs x 7 incline press? That’s the issue with rotating exercises too often; it’s very hard to make sure that you are progressing and increasing the training stimulus.

I always preferred to keep one basic exercise per movement pattern in there for 90% of the training cycles and rotate auxiliary/assistance exercises.

And when the basic exercise stagnate I keep it in, but use different lifting conditions (e.g. adding chains, bands, reverse bands, weight releasers, etc.)

[mrjasonbbc]

“And when the basic exercise stagnate I keep it in, but use different lifting conditions (e.g. adding chains, bands, reverse bands, weight releasers, etc.)”

Sounds like an idea for an article!

[Bue]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

If you do not stick to the same movement for long enough, how can you make sure that you are progressively overloading the muscles? How does a 120lbs x 6 DB press (per DB) compare to a 280lbs x 4 bench press? How about a 215lbs x 7 incline press? That’s the issue with rotating exercises too often; it’s very hard to make sure that you are progressing and increasing the training stimulus.

[/quote]

Well in the example given in my opening post, I wouldn’t “not be sticking” to a particular exercise - after all the whole point would be to try to fit all my favourite lifts in the schedule - Not to leave anything out. I would just have to wait a fairly long time (roughly 2 weeks) before performing it again.
Succesful programs such as 5/3/1 have you perform an exercise once a week, so I know that works, but what about once every 2 weeks? My main question still hasn’t been answered: How long can I wait before doing any given compound exercise again without losing neurological proficiency?

Please note that I’m not trying to be rude or anything. I greatly appreciate all input and answers.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Bue wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

If you do not stick to the same movement for long enough, how can you make sure that you are progressively overloading the muscles? How does a 120lbs x 6 DB press (per DB) compare to a 280lbs x 4 bench press? How about a 215lbs x 7 incline press? That’s the issue with rotating exercises too often; it’s very hard to make sure that you are progressing and increasing the training stimulus.

[/quote]

Well in the example given in my opening post, I wouldn’t “not be sticking” to a particular exercise - after all the whole point would be to try to fit all my favourite lifts in the schedule - Not to leave anything out. I would just have to wait a fairly long time (roughly 2 weeks) before performing it again.
Succesful programs such as 5/3/1 have you perform an exercise once a week, so I know that works, but what about once every 2 weeks? My main question still hasn’t been answered: How long can I wait before doing any given compound exercise again without losing neurological proficiency?

Please note that I’m not trying to be rude or anything. I greatly appreciate all input and answers.
[/quote]

It depends on your technical level of efficiency and your training experience. I’ll give you an example, my friend was a member of the 1982 World Championship Team in olympic lifting. He basically did snatches and clean & jerks for more than 20 years straight. He stopped training for olympic lifting, only doing “normal” training… after 10 years, at 45 years of age, he attempted and succeeded in cleaning 160kg with only 1 warm-up set with flawless technique.

On the other hand I’ve had clients not do a specific exercise for 3 weeks, have trouble technique-wise when they got back to the lift. It didn’t last long, after 1 or 2 sessions they were back on track but at first the lift felt odd.

So it really depends on how automatized your technique is.

I personally do not think that you will make optimal gains by rotating your lifts and only “practicing” each lift once every 2 weeks, but that doesn’t mean that you will not progress at all.

Also regarding Westside, keep in mind that their rotated exercises are VERY often variations of the main movement where only the conditions of performance are altered (using boards, floor press, slightly wider bench press, etc.) these are mechanically the same as the bench press (for example), rarely will they do something like incline bench press or DB press as their main strength movement.

[Bue]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Bue wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

If you do not stick to the same movement for long enough, how can you make sure that you are progressively overloading the muscles? How does a 120lbs x 6 DB press (per DB) compare to a 280lbs x 4 bench press? How about a 215lbs x 7 incline press? That’s the issue with rotating exercises too often; it’s very hard to make sure that you are progressing and increasing the training stimulus.

[/quote]

Well in the example given in my opening post, I wouldn’t “not be sticking” to a particular exercise - after all the whole point would be to try to fit all my favourite lifts in the schedule - Not to leave anything out. I would just have to wait a fairly long time (roughly 2 weeks) before performing it again.
Succesful programs such as 5/3/1 have you perform an exercise once a week, so I know that works, but what about once every 2 weeks? My main question still hasn’t been answered: How long can I wait before doing any given compound exercise again without losing neurological proficiency?

Please note that I’m not trying to be rude or anything. I greatly appreciate all input and answers.
[/quote]

It depends on your technical level of efficiency and your training experience. I’ll give you an example, my friend was a member of the 1982 World Championship Team in olympic lifting. He basically did snatches and clean & jerks for more than 20 years straight. He stopped training for olympic lifting, only doing “normal” training… after 10 years, at 45 years of age, he attempted and succeeded in cleaning 160kg with only 1 warm-up set with flawless technique.

On the other hand I’ve had clients not do a specific exercise for 3 weeks, have trouble technique-wise when they got back to the lift. It didn’t last long, after 1 or 2 sessions they were back on track but at first the lift felt odd.

So it really depends on how automatized your technique is.

I personally do not think that you will make optimal gains by rotating your lifts and only “practicing” each lift once every 2 weeks, but that doesn’t mean that you will not progress at all.

Also regarding Westside, keep in mind that their rotated exercises are VERY often variations of the main movement where only the conditions of performance are altered (using boards, floor press, slightly wider bench press, etc.) these are mechanically the same as the bench press (for example), rarely will they do something like incline bench press or DB press as their main strength movement.[/quote]

Good answer. Thanks a lot!

[DAVE101]

Why limit yourself to one push per workout? You can do Close Grip and DB Bench one day, Incline and Decline Bench the next.