double post gateway timeout of doom.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
If you were wondering about that, you could simply have asked about it in the first place.
If I want to know how exactly Bill Gates manages his finances, I don’t start off by giving him generic advice on the very subject.
Anyway, yes, long femurs = knees go out in front very far (lots of strain on the knees… Obv. they will travel in any event though) if you just drop straight down and hitting depth becomes difficult (ankle ROM, trying to keep your pelvis frum tucking under)… Pelvis/hips end up too far forward in the hole.
Then again, some may automatically do it right and not even consider that sitting back, so whatever.
With shorter femurs and so on you can keep your arch/pelvic position and literally drop straight down esp. with the knees out.
All the various cues are just there to let you keep your back/pelvis positioned correctly while achieving depth (so you don’t round and don’t have hips/pelvis come too far forward at the bottom) and the bar from coming too far forward or back etc.
As for the quads, they play a large role in the raw squat anyhow… Something has to take up what briefs or a suit usually do, and in order to be able to do that, some changes in technique are likely needed. Plus you may have to go somewhat deeper, and if you literally try to get your ass back as far as possible, that can be downright impossible.
How much of a role you want the quads to play depends. Tall guy may need to watch his knee health for one.
Staying more upright may help if you have a long torso… Low bar may really fuck with your shoulders/elbows/wrists… And so on. High bar is great if you’re one of those better off staying more upright anyway. Low bar is probably better if the opposite is true. And so on. And then there are people who do it the opposite way compared to what you’d expect them to do and they’re just fine.
rawelite is meat’s youtube channel but it seems that all his old vids are invisible/set to private now… I think there was a side view vid of him squatting 6xx in there somewhere, not sure.
[/quote]
talk’n about this one? no sitt’n back for me.
[/quote]
Yeah probably. Can’t view it though, you set it to private.
[/quote]
try it now.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
If you were wondering about that, you could simply have asked about it in the first place.
If I want to know how exactly Bill Gates manages his finances, I don’t start off by giving him generic advice on the very subject.
Anyway, yes, long femurs = knees go out in front very far (lots of strain on the knees… Obv. they will travel in any event though) if you just drop straight down and hitting depth becomes difficult (ankle ROM, trying to keep your pelvis frum tucking under)… Pelvis/hips end up too far forward in the hole.
Then again, some may automatically do it right and not even consider that sitting back, so whatever.
With shorter femurs and so on you can keep your arch/pelvic position and literally drop straight down esp. with the knees out.
All the various cues are just there to let you keep your back/pelvis positioned correctly while achieving depth (so you don’t round and don’t have hips/pelvis come too far forward at the bottom) and the bar from coming too far forward or back etc.
As for the quads, they play a large role in the raw squat anyhow… Something has to take up what briefs or a suit usually do, and in order to be able to do that, some changes in technique are likely needed. Plus you may have to go somewhat deeper, and if you literally try to get your ass back as far as possible, that can be downright impossible.
How much of a role you want the quads to play depends. Tall guy may need to watch his knee health for one.
Staying more upright may help if you have a long torso… Low bar may really fuck with your shoulders/elbows/wrists… And so on. High bar is great if you’re one of those better off staying more upright anyway. Low bar is probably better if the opposite is true. And so on. And then there are people who do it the opposite way compared to what you’d expect them to do and they’re just fine.
rawelite is meat’s youtube channel but it seems that all his old vids are invisible/set to private now… I think there was a side view vid of him squatting 6xx in there somewhere, not sure.
[/quote]
talk’n about this one? no sitt’n back for me.
[/quote]
Yeah probably. Can’t view it though, you set it to private.
[/quote]
try it now. [/quote]
Okay, we just call the cues differently it seems. That would be the raw version of sitting back to me…
Do you guys have any tips for strengthening the abductors? I feel like I have trouble forcing my knees out because of them.
You know which machine to use 
the abductor machine! i find having the knees bent at about 45 degrees out is better than keeping them on the foot rests, also really focus on glute flexing
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You know which machine to use
[/quote]
The “Good Girl / Naughty Girl” machine!
thanks so much!
i’ll come back to this thread later tonight (really enjoy learning about this stuff)
If I want to know how exactly Bill Gates manages his finances, I don’t start off by giving him generic advice on the very subject.
ah…
i did a communication fail…
guess i’m most interested in my finances (so to speak). if i wanted bill gates advice on how i could best handle my finances i’d start by telling him what i’m doing and hope he’d get mad at some point and tell me what i need to do to do it right!!
(that is how i’ve been taught to be an active learner - but i do see how it can be really very hard to figure what people are up to on the interwebz)
i don’t claim to have strong adductors…
but some people swear by moves like this:
i do them with my knees rotated out a bit (like i’d do in a squat) and feel activation / strengthening in my adductors and outer glutes from the exercise. the key is to do them slow and controlled and you can make them harder by holding the band up higher (over your head) or using a stronger band.
alternatively microbands are pretty cool. can use them for the same exercise. can also put them around your knees while you are squatting (probably best to start without weight or with just the bar). i started using microbands for my warmups and they really seem to help cue me to shove the knees out hard and keep them shoved out instead of letting them cave and doing a little courtesy thing on my ascent. once the microband came off my first work set actually felt easier even though my knees stayed out good. might be worth experimenting with.
(the good girl / bad girl machines are apparently a little bit controversial insofar as you are seated and can’t really activate the gluteal stabilizers alongside the adductors. the thought is that it might be better to train them together for functional movement)
for what it is worth
lol I’ll be joining a gym soon so I’ll make sure to use that.
Btw what about wrapping a mini band around your knees? Do you guys have any experience with this?
I remember reading how DT would use this to teach people to pull the bar apart on the bench press. I kinda feel like it’s applicable here as well.
As long as tbe thread seems to have the attention of a couple of vets anyway…
My left knee has a bad habit of buckling inwards when I’m coming out of the hole. I try to “spread the floor apart”, and force the knees out, but it’s still shaky. I squat with the bar high on my traps and a fairly upright torso.
Any tips?
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
As long as tbe thread seems to have the attention of a couple of vets anyway…
My left knee has a bad habit of buckling inwards when I’m coming out of the hole. I try to “spread the floor apart”, and force the knees out, but it’s still shaky. I squat with the bar high on my traps and a fairly upright torso.
Any tips?[/quote]
without seeing you squat i’m only guess but if i were to guess i would have to say the weight is getting in front of your hips coming out of the hole. typically the knees buckle because the weight has gotten in front of your center of gravity and the knees roll in to activate the quads to keep you from falling forward.
you need to work on staying tighter and keeping the weight centered througout the lift. often times folks allow their elbows to drift back causing the “chicken wing” form issue. you need to actively force the elbows down under the bar throughout the lift. when i describe to to trainees i tell them to pretend someone has attached cables to their elbows in front of you and they are then pulling your elbows towards them. that’s one of the most important verbal cues i use when my guys squat. i’m always yelling “elbows” which means to keep forcing them down and forward. getting the elbows under the bar will lock you into place and won’t allow your chest to cave and ultimately the weight getting in front of you.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
As long as tbe thread seems to have the attention of a couple of vets anyway…
My left knee has a bad habit of buckling inwards when I’m coming out of the hole. I try to “spread the floor apart”, and force the knees out, but it’s still shaky. I squat with the bar high on my traps and a fairly upright torso.
Any tips?[/quote]
without seeing you squat i’m only guess but if i were to guess i would have to say the weight is getting in front of your hips coming out of the hole. typically the knees buckle because the weight has gotten in front of your center of gravity and the knees roll in to activate the quads to keep you from falling forward.
you need to work on staying tighter and keeping the weight centered througout the lift. often times folks allow their elbows to drift back causing the “chicken wing” form issue. you need to actively force the elbows down under the bar throughout the lift. when i describe to to trainees i tell them to pretend someone has attached cables to their elbows in front of you and they are then pulling your elbows towards them. that’s one of the most important verbal cues i use when my guys squat. i’m always yelling “elbows” which means to keep forcing them down and forward. getting the elbows under the bar will lock you into place and won’t allow your chest to cave and ultimately the weight getting in front of you. [/quote]
Thanks, I will start working on that right away.
You were right on, “elbows” more or less took care of it.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
As long as tbe thread seems to have the attention of a couple of vets anyway…
My left knee has a bad habit of buckling inwards when I’m coming out of the hole. I try to “spread the floor apart”, and force the knees out, but it’s still shaky. I squat with the bar high on my traps and a fairly upright torso.
Any tips?[/quote]
without seeing you squat i’m only guess but if i were to guess i would have to say the weight is getting in front of your hips coming out of the hole. typically the knees buckle because the weight has gotten in front of your center of gravity and the knees roll in to activate the quads to keep you from falling forward.
you need to work on staying tighter and keeping the weight centered througout the lift. often times folks allow their elbows to drift back causing the “chicken wing” form issue. you need to actively force the elbows down under the bar throughout the lift. when i describe to to trainees i tell them to pretend someone has attached cables to their elbows in front of you and they are then pulling your elbows towards them. that’s one of the most important verbal cues i use when my guys squat. i’m always yelling “elbows” which means to keep forcing them down and forward. getting the elbows under the bar will lock you into place and won’t allow your chest to cave and ultimately the weight getting in front of you. [/quote]
Thanks, I have the same problem occasionally and try to fix it at the last second by “spreading the floor”. I never once considered my elbows as a problem/solution, going to give that a shot Wednesday!
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
As long as tbe thread seems to have the attention of a couple of vets anyway…
My left knee has a bad habit of buckling inwards when I’m coming out of the hole. I try to “spread the floor apart”, and force the knees out, but it’s still shaky. I squat with the bar high on my traps and a fairly upright torso.
Any tips?[/quote]
without seeing you squat i’m only guess but if i were to guess i would have to say the weight is getting in front of your hips coming out of the hole. typically the knees buckle because the weight has gotten in front of your center of gravity and the knees roll in to activate the quads to keep you from falling forward.
you need to work on staying tighter and keeping the weight centered througout the lift. often times folks allow their elbows to drift back causing the “chicken wing” form issue. you need to actively force the elbows down under the bar throughout the lift. when i describe to to trainees i tell them to pretend someone has attached cables to their elbows in front of you and they are then pulling your elbows towards them. that’s one of the most important verbal cues i use when my guys squat. i’m always yelling “elbows” which means to keep forcing them down and forward. getting the elbows under the bar will lock you into place and won’t allow your chest to cave and ultimately the weight getting in front of you. [/quote]
I’ll be trying this next time I squat heavy. Usually on my heaviest two weeks in a cycle My knees cave on my heavy sets. Appreciate the wisdom.