[quote]Professor X wrote:
heavythrower wrote:
first off, i like machines, i think they serve a purpose in anybodies training routine depending on what your needs goals are at any given time. i use lots of machines, seems i use more and
more as i get older and more banged up.
but i beg to differ about the difference in how much weight one can use on a hammer machine verses free weight. a quick look at my training logs on this sit will show that i have used up to 4 plates each side on a hammer incline, when due to chronic shoulder problems i at the time found 185lbs on the free weight incline too painful to do.
i found the weight i could use on a hammer machine more like the weight i could use on a similar barbell movement when i used mini-bands on the machine for added resistance.
What you mentioned from your training log after an injury implies that part of the injury involved an area more worked in stabilizing the weight during a free weight movement, not that you were somehow able to lift twice as much because the machine is so easy. I rarely see anyone at all using even 4 plates a side on those machines unless they are carrying a good deal of muscle mass on them and clearly look as if they can usually handle quite a bit of weight on barbell presses.
It takes the need for stabilization out of the picture. It doesn’t somehow make the movement “easier” or lift the weight for you. Considering the progress I have made since adding them in, I will continue laughing at anyone attempting to degrade how effective they are. I am still wondering why you are attempting to make it seem as if someone who can only lift 185lbs on an incline press can equally move 4 plates a side on a Hammer strength incline machine. That’s retarded. You could lift that much because your muscles were strong enough from being able to incline press more than that before the injury…which puts the focus back on the specific muscles injured during your injury and NOT some comparison of 185lbs barbells with 8 plates on a HS machine.
The only person attempting to compare free weight directly to Hammer Strength machines…is you. They are different. They are not more or less effective and, personally, I am impressed by anyone who can lift as much and more than I can on anything, including any machine.
I mean, is this some sort of contest for you and others any time someone mentions a weight lifted? If not, why the attempt to make the comparison you did?[/quote]
i knew that it would be impossible to make the point i was trying to make with you not taking it personally, though it was not to belittle you in any way. i stand by my statement/point i was trying to make.
a post on another forum i used to belong too (i can link it to you if you would like) a long time ago will show that i do not discount the relative strength of people who use primarily machines for training.
on that board, which is dominated by powerlifters, i relayed a story of how i say a "body-builder type" guy who was using he entire stack for cable flys plus some extra resistance for reps, and some insane amount of plates on a hack squat machine(LIKE 7-8 EACH SIDE!) but i never saw him bench, squat or pull.
though i thought he would have had a lot of trouble doing some of the things i do for training, i had to admit that there is NO WAY i could even come close to lifting what he did on those machines.
what i was trying to say was how different the hammer machines are and you cannot compare them to what one can lift with free weights, just my personal experience.