How Do You Train Prof X ?

Training Bodybuilding
81

[quote]John S. wrote:
And this is why he doesn’t post his numbers, You do understand he has done 405lbs on the bench right(free weight). what hes doing now is not what he has always done and its not what he will always do.

I see nothing wrong with using hammer strength machines for bodybuilding or powerlifting at some point to work on a paticular muscle group that is lagging.[/quote]

This is why that will probably be the last time I discuss what I lift. I know I’m stronger than most people I come in contact with. For some reason, whenever someone discusses what they lift, it becomes a personal competition to anyone listening and they suddenly have to rate themselves by what that person is doing.

82

[quote]Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:
And this is why he doesn’t post his numbers, You do understand he has done 405lbs on the bench right(free weight). what hes doing now is not what he has always done and its not what he will always do.

I see nothing wrong with using hammer strength machines for bodybuilding or powerlifting at some point to work on a paticular muscle group that is lagging.

This is why that will probably be the last time I discuss what I lift. I know I’m stronger than most people I come in contact with. For some reason, whenever someone discusses what they lift, it becomes a personal competition to anyone listening and they suddenly have to rate themselves by what that person is doing.[/quote]

It’s just jealousy rearing its ugly head.

83

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:

Andrew Dixon wrote:

I’m of the same opinion when using belts, straps, shirts, etc. I dont really care how much someone can press with equipment to assist them, not impressive.

Yes because someone used equipment when they deadlifted 1003 lbs, that means its not impressive. It should be written off because you think they wouldnt be strong without the equipment.

Im sure this guy ( World record deadlift 1003lb andy bolton - YouTube ) would love to discus it with you in person. Dont worry, I doubt he would be wearing a belt, so you shouldnt have anything to worry about.

I bet youre one of those “all powerlifters are fat” guys too, arent you?

Yeah, that dudes strong for sure. Im still more interested in seeing what the best totally unassisted humans are capapble of doing.

I’d be happy to discuss it with him in person. Do you think he wants to fight me?

Why do you think I think all powerlifters are fat? What that got to do with what we’re talking about.

Its just if I see a dude working a machhine all stacked next to a dude working to a bar with half the weight I’m watching the bar…thats only because I only lift free weights.

I like to see what people can do unassisted, thats all.b[/quote]

You just said that if someone uses equipment, then their lifts are somehow not valid. Your logic does not follow.

I wasnt talking about machines here. I was talking about your statement about equipped lifts being invalid. I am going to go out on a limb and say that he does not want to fight you, however if you were to meet him in person, I feel that you would not be telling him that his 1003 lb deadlift was not impressive.

Its kind of like saying that Michael Jordan wasnt as good of a basketball player as people think he is because of the shoes he wore.

Really, if you want to make a fair analogy, it would be like saying Dale Earnheardt Jr. is not a good race car driver because he wears his seatbelt.

Exclusively lifting free weights just because does not make you special. It simply means that you have chosen to ignore the use of a possible tool in the pursuit of your goals because of some elitest perspective that (Im going out on a limb here) you have based purely on what someone else has told you.

As far as the “all powerlifters are fat” comment, the same arguments you are making are similar to those made by those who are smaller and weaker and need some way to validate their smaller lifts and physiques.

84

[quote]Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:
And this is why he doesn’t post his numbers, You do understand he has done 405lbs on the bench right(free weight). what hes doing now is not what he has always done and its not what he will always do.

I see nothing wrong with using hammer strength machines for bodybuilding or powerlifting at some point to work on a paticular muscle group that is lagging.

This is why that will probably be the last time I discuss what I lift. I know I’m stronger than most people I come in contact with. For some reason, whenever someone discusses what they lift, it becomes a personal competition to anyone listening and they suddenly have to rate themselves by what that person is doing.[/quote]

I actually thought in the earlier posts when you/or someone else mentioned “the effective weight is etc” you were referring to the free weight equivilant. I’ve read some more and realise your referring to lever arms of the machine, so how much actual weight is being forced down through the handles, etc.

All acts of strength are specific skills. None really mean much to someone who doesnt use the same equipment.

85

Wow thats the first time I saw your photos. I knew you were big but I always pictured you with more body fat, thats down right scary :slight_smile:

Right I know you cant get your clavicles wider but you look really wide in your pictures, do you think lateral raises play a big part in giving the apperance of wider shoulders?

I would assume than I should ignore TUT and just try and keep upping my weight on the lateral raises, correct?

I keep going back and forth between 25lbs with not great form and 20lbs droop sets with 4 sec TUT on the negative. There is so much contrary information I never know what is right. Heck if Poloqin talks about 3/0/2 etc, it does make sense that they would work and you can feel the burn more but I can never progress this way.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
topgun322 wrote:
Questions for you X

  1. Do you train to failure which to me is you coudnt do another rep without big time cheating?

  2. Have the lateral raises actually helped you get wider? Not just bigger shoulders but actually making your clavicles wider?

  3. Do you think you should work lateral raises very slow, perfect form and feel the burn or try and progress and its ok if form isnt great? I have tried very hard to get wider but no luck

Also with DB you know there is a device you can buy that will help you get the dumbbells up .

  1. I train close to failure and mentioned that in the link in this thread. I think training to the actual point of failure is a great way to injure yourself if you are using heavy free weights. To de4scribe it fully, it would be the point I which I couldn’t do another full rep on the last set. Very often, the first couple of sets are nowhere near failure because I am warming up for the most part.

  2. Your clavicles aren’t going anywhere. Bodybuilding makes your muscles larger, not your skeleton outside of thicker attachments to bone or increased density over time from weight bearing exercises. I am wider because I have more muscle mass than when I started. An X-ray wouldn’t show a change in skeletal structure.

  3. There are very few movements that I have EVER trained slow and I have never worried about “feeling the burn”. Anyone I do see training like that is small. They do seem pretty confident that they are training better than everyone else though. I just don’t see them growing much.

My movements are done pushing the weight quicker than I lower it. I don’t count seconds during a rep. If I am doing lateral raises, my focus is on the muscle group. I raise the weight with force and lower it under enough to control to keep the muscle stimulated. It is NOT a slow movement. That does NOT mean I drop the weight on the negative portion of a movement. The weight is always under control of the target muscle group. You just won’t see me doing too many super slow movements because, frankly, they SUCK for building muscle mass.[/quote]

86

I saw the pics. Thanks.

You are only about 2" shorter but you looked a hell of a lot bigger at 210 than I looked at 215.

You look good (in a manly way) at 255.

87

Are these pictures everyone talks about posted? If not, please PM them to me, Prof X.

88

[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:
Are these pictures everyone talks about posted? If not, please PM them to me, Prof X.[/quote]

Check his profile if it still open.

89

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

Im not saying Im stronger, Im not competing with anyone. Take another analogy - I’m impressed with the gymnast, but not the marathon runner so much. Both are tough.

If pushing a machine loaded up with plates is challenging and rewarding for you, then fine keep it up. Prof X could kick my arse in all strength tests, no question. Maybe I can ride his bike better though…
[/quote]

They don’t have bike riding forums? Would you say your not impressed on a bike rider forum, because they can’t bench 405 on machines?

I hate being on the bandwagon arguing with you but your just not making much sense. On a bodybuilding/strength site saying how unimpressed you are with a clear feat of strength.

Moving weight is moving weight whether on a machine or a on a barbell. If you are watching somebody on a bench doing half the weight somebody with a machine is pushing you are limiting yourself as well as your training. In fact considering all elite athletes at some time use machines to develop a specific muscle, you are merely showing your training youth. So if you are training for a reason I guess all I can say is you’ll see.

90

actually he has a 405lb raw free weight flat bench, and a 495 10 times(hope thats right) on incline hammer strength.

91

[quote]topgun322 wrote:
Right I know you cant get your clavicles wider but you look really wide in your pictures, do you think lateral raises play a big part in giving the apperance of wider shoulders?[/quote]

Yes, that and having muscular arms, traps, chest and even back. It all plays a part in how “wide” you are going to look. Large lateral delts would obviously play a very large part in that.

[quote]

I would assume than I should ignore TUT and just try and keep upping my weight on the lateral raises, correct? [/quote]

I can’t think of a greater place for most people to waste their time than by worrying more about TUT than the actual weight being lifted. Most people are nowhere near advanced enough to be making that the primary focus in training. The same mentality plagues just about every other aspect of training. You have people who look like they don’t even lift making Excel spread sheets and calculating their food intake down to the nanogram. It just isn’t that complicated and excessively scrutinizing the details before even get the MUCH more important basics squared away is ridiculous and silly.

[quote]

I keep going back and forth between 25lbs with not great form and 20lbs droop sets with 4 sec TUT on the negative. There is so much contrary information I never know what is right. Heck if Poloqin talks about 3/0/2 etc, it does make sense that they would work and you can feel the burn more but I can never progress this way. [/quote]

Most newbies probably should be much less concerned with what most of these authors write. You don’t know what to take and what to leave behind…which means it holds you back. Bodybuilding, while a practice filled with a great history and tons of info, never needed an advanced degree to see optimal progress. The reason the guy who dropped out of high school is blowing up while the fool in college extremely worried about what new acronyms he can learn isn’t is simply because the drop out learned it is more about intensity and consistency.

No one gives a shit who you can quote in the gym. If you aren’t making progress, you get an “F”.

On the flipside, that doesn’t mean be ignorant to information. It does mean most people need to take it back to basic biology, anatomy and basic training concepts before worrying about most of the shit they seem perplexed by.

92

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

Im not saying Im stronger, Im not competing with anyone. Take another analogy - I’m impressed with the gymnast, but not the marathon runner so much. Both are tough.

If pushing a machine loaded up with plates is challenging and rewarding for you, then fine keep it up. Prof X could kick my arse in all strength tests, no question. Maybe I can ride his bike better though…

They don’t have bike riding forums? Would you say your not impressed on a bike rider forum, because they can’t bench 405 on machines?

I hate being on the bandwagon arguing with you but your just not making much sense. On a bodybuilding/strength site saying how unimpressed you are with a clear feat of strength.

Moving weight is moving weight whether on a machine or a on a barbell. If you are watching somebody on a bench doing half the weight somebody with a machine is pushing you are limiting yourself as well as your training. In fact considering all elite athletes at some time use machines to develop a specific muscle, you are merely showing your training youth. So if you are training for a reason I guess all I can say is you’ll see.[/quote]

WTF are you on about? The bike comment has nothing to do with my point.

I dont agree with machine training for performance and you do. Thats fine, Im not arguing that. But thats why a machine lift doesnt turn my head. Strength isnt strength and the machine/free weight argument has been going on for decades.

93

In case you havent noticed, Prof is a bodybuilder. That means his primary goal is hypertrophy, not performance.

Why are you posting here again?

What was your point?

Dont you have a swiss ball to go blow up or something?

94

I don’t see what you are getting so bent out of shape for, and even why you felt it necessary to add that you weren’t impressed by what someone can lift on a machine.
That comment would make a lot more sense if you stated that you could lift more on a free weight bench press than him, but not much sense since you admit you don’t, so your not being impressed by the conditions surrounding his 495 press is not required imo.

The way I see it: One of your goals is to get bigger and stronger (thats why you must be on this site). The old gentleman’s goals are (I guess) to get bigger and stronger. Clearly he has achieved more than most of us and makes a good case for using machines when the weight gets heavier to keep stimulating the muscles to grow (why lift just for the sake of lifting? lift to build your physique).

When you added that the 405 press impressed you MORE than the 495lb m/c press, THAT seemed to make more sense, and I agree with that myself. I just don;t see why you began the battle with “your feat of strength does not impress me.”

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

Im not saying Im stronger, Im not competing with anyone. Take another analogy - I’m impressed with the gymnast, but not the marathon runner so much. Both are tough.

If pushing a machine loaded up with plates is challenging and rewarding for you, then fine keep it up. Prof X could kick my arse in all strength tests, no question. Maybe I can ride his bike better though…

They don’t have bike riding forums? Would you say your not impressed on a bike rider forum, because they can’t bench 405 on machines?

I hate being on the bandwagon arguing with you but your just not making much sense. On a bodybuilding/strength site saying how unimpressed you are with a clear feat of strength.

Moving weight is moving weight whether on a machine or a on a barbell. If you are watching somebody on a bench doing half the weight somebody with a machine is pushing you are limiting yourself as well as your training. In fact considering all elite athletes at some time use machines to develop a specific muscle, you are merely showing your training youth. So if you are training for a reason I guess all I can say is you’ll see.

WTF are you on about? The bike comment has nothing to do with my point.

I dont agree with machine training for performance and you do. Thats fine, Im not arguing that. But thats why a machine lift doesnt turn my head. Strength isnt strength and the machine/free weight argument has been going on for decades.

[/quote]

95

[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
I just don;t see why you began the battle with “your feat of strength does not impress me.”

[/quote]

Because hes got some sort of insecurity that leads him to try to undermine the achievements of others…likely due to the fact that he himself has none.

96

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kill’Em All wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jwillow wrote:
The good Professor discussed his training a while back, and took the time to patiently answer a lot of follow-up questions as well:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=651079

Markandspike, if that link doesn’t tell what you want to know, just ask.

Hey professor X I read through some of your routines. Are you really pressing 5 plates each side on incline for 8 reps? IE 495 lbs? Wow now that is impressive!

10 reps. My strength hasn’t made much of a jump in that area for a while since I was working on dropping weight and maintaining a certain bodyweight for the past few months. Also, it takes much more time to improve in that area now than if I were just starting to train.[/quote]

first off, i like machines, i think they serve a purpose in anybodies training routine depending on what your needs goals are at any given time. i use lots of machines, seems i use more and
more as i get older and more banged up.

but i beg to differ about the difference in how much weight one can use on a hammer machine verses free weight. a quick look at my training logs on this sit will show that i have used up to 4 plates each side on a hammer incline, when due to chronic shoulder problems i at the time found 185lbs on the free weight incline too painful to do.

i found the weight i could use on a hammer machine more like the weight i could use on a similar barbell movement when i used mini-bands on the machine for added resistance.

97

[quote]Professor X wrote:
topgun322 wrote:
Right I know you cant get your clavicles wider but you look really wide in your pictures, do you think lateral raises play a big part in giving the apperance of wider shoulders?

Yes, that and having muscular arms, traps, chest and even back. It all plays a part in how “wide” you are going to look. Large lateral delts would obviously play a very large part in that.

:wink:
I would assume than I should ignore TUT and just try and keep upping my weight on the lateral raises, correct?

I can’t think of a greater place for most people to waste their time than by worrying more about TUT than the actual weight being lifted. Most people are nowhere near advanced enough to be making that the primary focus in training. The same mentality plagues just about every other aspect of training. You have people who look like they don’t even lift making Excel spread sheets and calculating their food intake down to the nanogram. It just isn’t that complicated and excessively scrutinizing the details before even get the MUCH more important basics squared away is ridiculous and silly.

I keep going back and forth between 25lbs with not great form and 20lbs droop sets with 4 sec TUT on the negative. There is so much contrary information I never know what is right. Heck if Poloqin talks about 3/0/2 etc, it does make sense that they would work and you can feel the burn more but I can never progress this way.

Most newbies probably should be much less concerned with what most of these authors write. You don’t know what to take and what to leave behind…which means it holds you back. Bodybuilding, while a practice filled with a great history and tons of info, never needed an advanced degree to see optimal progress. The reason the guy who dropped out of high school is blowing up while the fool in college extremely worried about what new acronyms he can learn isn’t is simply because the drop out learned it is more about intensity and consistency.

No one gives a shit who you can quote in the gym. If you aren’t making progress, you get an “F”.

On the flipside, that doesn’t mean be ignorant to information. It does mean most people need to take it back to basic biology, anatomy and basic training concepts before worrying about most of the shit they seem perplexed by.
[/quote]

The responses X made right here, says it all.

98

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
first off, i like machines, i think they serve a purpose in anybodies training routine depending on what your needs goals are at any given time. i use lots of machines, seems i use more and
more as i get older and more banged up.

but i beg to differ about the difference in how much weight one can use on a hammer machine verses free weight. a quick look at my training logs on this sit will show that i have used up to 4 plates each side on a hammer incline, when due to chronic shoulder problems i at the time found 185lbs on the free weight incline too painful to do.

i found the weight i could use on a hammer machine more like the weight i could use on a similar barbell movement when i used mini-bands on the machine for added resistance.

[/quote]

What you mentioned from your training log after an injury implies that part of the injury involved an area more worked in stabilizing the weight during a free weight movement, not that you were somehow able to lift twice as much because the machine is so easy. I rarely see anyone at all using even 4 plates a side on those machines unless they are carrying a good deal of muscle mass on them and clearly look as if they can usually handle quite a bit of weight on barbell presses.

It takes the need for stabilization out of the picture. It doesn’t somehow make the movement “easier” or lift the weight for you. Considering the progress I have made since adding them in, I will continue laughing at anyone attempting to degrade how effective they are. I am still wondering why you are attempting to make it seem as if someone who can only lift 185lbs on an incline press can equally move 4 plates a side on a Hammer strength incline machine. That’s retarded. You could lift that much because your muscles were strong enough from being able to incline press more than that before the injury…which puts the focus back on the specific muscles injured during your injury and NOT some comparison of 185lbs barbells with 8 plates on a HS machine.

The only person attempting to compare free weight directly to Hammer Strength machines…is you. They are different. They are not more or less effective and, personally, I am impressed by anyone who can lift as much and more than I can on anything, including any machine.

I mean, is this some sort of contest for you and others any time someone mentions a weight lifted? If not, why the attempt to make the comparison you did?

99

Excuse me X, but I have a couple of questions for you, if you don’t mind.

  1. How much do you usually eat when bulking? What’s the most you’ve eaten for any given period of time?

  2. Do you have any good high-calorie recipes you used while trying to get your daily calorie alotment?

I ask because I’m trying to gain some weight and the scale currently isn’t budging even though I’m taking in 5000 calories per day. BTW, I’m 6’1/2" and 202 lbs in the morning and have a freaky fast metabolism.

Thank you for your time.

Roger

100

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is why that will probably be the last time I discuss what I lift. I know I’m stronger than most people I come in contact with. For some reason, whenever someone discusses what they lift, it becomes a personal competition to anyone listening and they suddenly have to rate themselves by what that person is doing.[/quote]

I can see why random, unsolicited, and in the context of the thread, pointless opinions concerning your strength levels could make you feel this way.

I appreciate you sharing details about your workouts including strength levels and hope you continue to do so for the benefit of those of us who come here to make use of good information.