How Do You Calculate Contest Shape?

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Yours too. I said ‘not many’, not ‘none at all’.

I kinda figured you’d focus on that part of my post instead of my rebuttal of your assumptions.[/quote]

Why waste time on your rebuttal? We disagree about what this section entitled “bodybuilding” is for. There clearly needs to be a “I lift weights but people can’t tell unless I take off my shirt, put a light directly overhead and flex my abs until I turn purple from lack of oxygen” forum.

Until there is one, I think some who fall into that category may be sorely disappointed with some of the responses.

In a world of watered down half ass attempts, why make this section the same?

[quote]Westclock wrote:
tribunaldude wrote:
Leo Ingram, thats the guy.

BONEZ217 wrote:
Ignoring the absolute retardity (new word DONT STEAL IT!!!) of your question.

How can you expect legitimate and useful responses from people without showing us what you look like. Not everyone looks the same at 10%. I have abs showing without flexing when I’m above 10%. Ingram (a pro BB, dont remember his first name) barely has abs in contest condition. There are so many personal variations its absurd. You could have at least given your current height and weight.

Wow thats ridiculously bad luck genetics wise.

Ive never seen that before.[/quote]

I have, my friend is like that. No tendons that separate the abs, just one big slab of muscle.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Why waste time on your rebuttal? We disagree about what this section entitled “bodybuilding” is for. There clearly needs to be a “I lift weights but people can’t tell unless I take off my shirt, put a light directly overhead and flex my abs until I turn purple from lack of oxygen” forum.

Until there is one, I think some who fall into that category may be sorely disappointed with some of the responses.

In a world of watered down half ass attempts, why make this section the same?[/quote]

Where we disagree is, you seem to think that a member needs to be a certain size to ask a question in this forum. I think this forum is for obtaining the information needed to get to that size. What is the purpose of this section, otherwise? For a couple of guys to talk back and forth about how big they are?

And if someone asks about cutting when they weigh 190, maybe it would be better to let them know they may be making a mistake by doing so, instead of railing on and on about how sick and fucking tired you are of anorexic motherfuckers wanting to cut weight and look even more emaciated. And how dare they waste your time and your internetz and post on your forum about their pathetic little goals.

Not that you’ve ever said exactly that, but that’s how it comes across sometimes.

Another way to calculate contest shape would be the pythagorean theorem, but everyone knows that.

Leo Ingram doesn’t have abs, he has an ab… A one-pack.

It’s actually kind of creepy.

[quote]elusive wrote:
Another way to calculate contest shape would be the pythagorean theorem, but everyone knows that.[/quote]

ah yes, a^2+b^2=c^2

Everybody know that’s the best way to do it, but did you know that Einstein spent many years trying to figure out the best way to calculate what his contest shape weight was? He came up with:

E=MC^2

Which is actually the way we now calculate how much to eat when bulking. E (Eat) = MC^2, (Mega calories) squared! This equation proves JUST FUCKING EAT!

[quote]elano wrote:
elusive wrote:
Another way to calculate contest shape would be the pythagorean theorem, but everyone knows that.

ah yes, a^2+b^2=c^2

Everybody know that’s the best way to do it, but did you know that Einstein spent many years trying to figure out the best way to calculate what his contest shape weight was? He came up with:

E=MC^2

Which is actually the way we now calculate how much to eat when bulking. E (Eat) = MC^2, (Mega calories) squared! This equation proves JUST FUCKING EAT![/quote]

VERY GOOD POST^. Whats bodybuilding without Albert Einstein? Im currently bulking and theres never a day where I don’t use his mathematical equations to calculate my daily food intake.

[quote]elusive wrote:
elano wrote:
elusive wrote:
Another way to calculate contest shape would be the pythagorean theorem, but everyone knows that.

ah yes, a^2+b^2=c^2

Everybody know that’s the best way to do it, but did you know that Einstein spent many years trying to figure out the best way to calculate what his contest shape weight was? He came up with:

E=MC^2

Which is actually the way we now calculate how much to eat when bulking. E (Eat) = MC^2, (Mega calories) squared! This equation proves JUST FUCKING EAT!

VERY GOOD POST^. Whats bodybuilding without Albert Einstein? Im currently bulking and theres never a day where I don’t use his mathematical equations to calculate my daily food intake. [/quote]

LOL!!

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Where we disagree is, you seem to think that a member needs to be a certain size to ask a question in this forum.[/quote]

Bullshit. Two of the smaller newbies here are in the T-Cell. I think a member needs to have the goal of building their fucking body up to fit in here. Where have I EVER written that someone needs to be a specific size to ask a question?

JayPierce I think you are mixing things up…X tends to tell people to post their pics when they are spreading RETARDED info to others with no stats or pics in their profile.

For example Person A tells person B “Just do TBT with lots of compounds and no direct arm work and you will get huge and your arms will be huge too!” Person A has no stats in profile and no pics either, but claims that TBT and no isolation work is the way to build huge massive arms.

Anyway, to address the original question in the general sense, not to the specific case:

What is being asked, cannot be done accurately.

First, bodyfat cannot be accurately measured by any means other than DEXA, which few have access to.

While skinfold for example generally does track change pretty well, the absolute values are often obviously not right, with 2-point error being entirely likely at lower bf values and 3 or 4 points entirely possible at “where are the cuts?” bodyfat values.

So that is a possible error of 4 lb or so, when lean, or maybe 8 lb or so when not.

Next, individuals will vary greatly on the point at which further loss of bodyfat starts resulting in substantial loss of lean mass, and in the extent of that loss.

So, let’s say there’s 6 lb error, and we don’t know which way, in the estimate of LBM. There may, if fat enough to have no cuts, and lacking past experience to judge in the individual case, easily be a 10 lb error in guessing how much LBM will be lost in getting to contest condition.

Now we’re up to 16 lb possible error – and not even as a max, just an entirely likely error.

And we haven’t even looked into guessing how much water weight must be dropped.

The ONLY accurate answer to the question is going and doing it, or having done it a number of times, having the experience to judge how it is likely to turn out this time based on previous results and whatever changes have been made since.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
JayPierce wrote:

Where we disagree is, you seem to think that a member needs to be a certain size to ask a question in this forum.

Bullshit. Two of the smaller newbies here are in the T-Cell. I think a member needs to have the goal of building their fucking body up to fit in here. Where have I EVER written that someone needs to be a specific size to ask a question?[/quote]

But the OP is building his body up. He just wants to go on a cut too soon. A lot of beginners get excited about gaining muscle and want to see it, which is perfectly natural. They just need a bit of guidance, and a reminder that when cutting, they may lose some of that hard-earned mass.

He doesn’t call himself a bodybuilder, probably for the same reason I don’t call myself one. But he is up to “well over 188” at 10.1%bf, up from 165, so he’s obviously gaining mass. I would tend to call him a beginning bodybuilder, whether he calls himself one or not.

Of course you’ve never actually written that someone needs to be, say, 220lbs in order to ask something. But your demeanor definitely changes based on the size of the poster, whether it’s the OP or someone responding to the OP.

[quote]josh86 wrote:
JayPierce I think you are mixing things up…X tends to tell people to post their pics when they are spreading RETARDED info to others with no stats or pics in their profile.

For example Person A tells person B “Just do TBT with lots of compounds and no direct arm work and you will get huge and your arms will be huge too!” Person A has no stats in profile and no pics either, but claims that TBT and no isolation work is the way to build huge massive arms.[/quote]

You may be right. I’m just speaking from what I’ve seen, and how things seem to me.

I’m not talking about the type of posts you mentioned. Challenging someone for proof of results when they spread bogus shit is completely warranted. I just don’t see where I told the OP anything wrong.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
JayPierce wrote:

Where we disagree is, you seem to think that a member needs to be a certain size to ask a question in this forum.

Bullshit. Two of the smaller newbies here are in the T-Cell. I think a member needs to have the goal of building their fucking body up to fit in here. Where have I EVER written that someone needs to be a specific size to ask a question?

But the OP is building his body up. He just wants to go on a cut too soon. A lot of beginners get excited about gaining muscle and want to see it, which is perfectly natural. They just need a bit of guidance, and a reminder that when cutting, they may lose some of that hard-earned mass.[/quote]

I don’t get this what so ever. Unless you’re obese and started lifting you’ll be able to see muscle very well when you first get into lifting and start developing it.

[quote]Tiznut wrote:
JayPierce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
JayPierce wrote:

Where we disagree is, you seem to think that a member needs to be a certain size to ask a question in this forum.

Bullshit. Two of the smaller newbies here are in the T-Cell. I think a member needs to have the goal of building their fucking body up to fit in here. Where have I EVER written that someone needs to be a specific size to ask a question?

But the OP is building his body up. He just wants to go on a cut too soon. A lot of beginners get excited about gaining muscle and want to see it, which is perfectly natural. They just need a bit of guidance, and a reminder that when cutting, they may lose some of that hard-earned mass.

I don’t get this what so ever. Unless you’re obese and started lifting you’ll be able to see muscle very well when you first get into lifting and start developing it.[/quote]

…which is the point that the poster above seems to be missing. I never had a problem seeing my muscles as I got bigger. They got much easier to see if anything even if I wasn’t ripped.

The mentality of someone who wants to cut as soon as they get started well is the same as those guys commenting in that Shugart thread about seeing their abs even though they only weigh less than 180lbs at average height. That isn’t bodybuilding. It shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath as bodybuilding.

If you are shorter and “180lbs” makes you look very well developed, more power to you. I have the strong feeling that if we saw a picture of the OP, he would look far from that at the moment.

When I first got started, my original goal was to weigh “180lbs”. I then hit that and realized I was nowhere near what I wanted to look like so I kept going.

No one is degrading someone from having a lesser goal specifically because beginners think everything bigger than them is “built”. However, the attitude of late seems to be some strange complete avoidance of big muscles in favor of abs.

There are tons of sites and even a “V-Diet” forum on this one for that. There, they will applaud 15" arms as long as those abs show.

I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t think that’s the case with this one. Seems to me that he wants to be big AND ripped NOW, and he just needs some patience.

And I do understand your frustration with the general bullshit that’s being fed to people. You look in the magazine rack and you see “GET SHREDDED IN TIME FOR SUMMER!!!”, and it’s the fucking May issue of some ‘fitness’ or ‘health’ mag. Then you look to the right and you see bodybuilding mags that give workout routines and feature ‘articles’ written by ‘doctors’ who work for supplement companies, but nowhere in the mag does it ever mention gear. One is just as unrealistic as the other, but the general public sees it as the real deal.

All you can do is tell people the truth. What they do with the information is out of your hands. I simply posed the truth as a question, hoping the OP would think about it and come up with the right answer himself. People respond better to suggestion than just being told what to do.