How do I most optimally train for my phases

Training
1

Hey y’all,

Male | 32yr | 190lb | 6ft | training experience 5yrs

Looking for opinions. Have been training hypertrophy specifically for 5 years now. I want to continue working on my physique goals and I would like to increase strength on the big lifts. I’m totally cool taking a phased approach to balance bodybuilding goals with strength goals. How could y’all advise hypertrophy and strength training phases during these different diet phases? (Fat Loss, Maintain, Gain)

I have my yearly periodization designed for how I’ve been training. It looks something like this:

  • March, April, May

    • Fat Loss Phase

      • 0.5% - 0.75% loss per week

  • June, July, August

    • Slow Gain Phase or Maintain

      • 0.25% - 0.375% gain per week or 0% if maintaining

      • 10 weeks

  • September, October

    • Fat Loss Phase or Maintain

      • 0.5% - 0.75% loss per week or 0% if maintaining

      • 8-10 weeks

  • November, December, January, February

    • Slow Gain Phase

      • 0.25% - 0.5% gain per week

      • 14 weeks

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I’ll just say what I did after lifting weights for about 5 years. I decided that I wanted to try powerlifting and continue in my long range plan of competing in bodybuilding. I simply had the first lift of the workout being one of the three Powerlifts (Squat, Bench Press, and Deadlift.)

You could start the powerlifts doing 4 or 5 sets of 5 reps. Then you could do the bodybuilding exercises as supplemental exercises associated with the Powerlift that you started with.

I don’t get the need for doing the phases you rotate through. Get at a good beach weight where you look impressive, but not shredded (maybe 13 to 15% body fat) and get stronger.

That is what I did. I wasn’t a very good powerlifter, but the powerlifts built a good foundation that help me fair pretty well in competitive bodybuilding.

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3

531 BBB does what @RT_Nomad is talking about. The main lift is OHP, DL, BP, or Squat, typically 3x5 (5’s Pro), then the assistance lift is 5x10 at a percentage of the TM (hypertrophy).

If so inclined, you can do BP assistance 5x10 for assistance on OHP strength day, and vice versa. That way you will hit each muscle group at least twice per week.

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4

Thanks for the reply! So would you say that you maintain your weight year round?

Is there any time at which you go ahead and cut weight to get more lean? And if so, what is your training protocol during this time? Does it change?

5

Thanks for the input!

When it comes to 5/3/1 BBB how many more exercises can I look to throw in? In general I want to give every body part an exercise being pushed close to failure like 1-3 RIR.

Also is there any guidance in how this program would differ between the diet phases I run?…i.e. Fat Loss, Maintenance, Bulk

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I want respond, but don’t want to misquote Wendler - I do what works for me. Typically, I will do my main lift, then the assistance lift, and one other lift for the muscle group (at least) to get to 10-12 sets in total. The main lift of 3x5 is for strength, everything else is hypertrophy so I focus on the stretch and negatives.

On bench and ohp days, I normally will do another 5x10 on the opposite lift. So on BP I will do 3x5 on the main lift, 5x10 on incline at 50% of TM, and 5x10 on OHP at 50% of TM.

That way, I also get a Heavy/Light rotation going. OHP is heavy on Monday (regular 531 plus 5x10 BBB) and light on Thursday (just 5x10 at 50%).

I would not recommend running BBB for long in a deficit. It is, after all, Boring But Big. You can do another 531 template for different goals - AMRAP and joker sets during diet?

Anyway, I do tris on bench and OHP days, bis on SQ and DL days. I shrug on those days too. I throw in abs when I feel like it - my abs get a good workout just from bracing on the main lifts.

Eventually, you will cycle up to where you can’t get five. That’s when you have to take two steps back.

Final thing that I would be remiss if I didn’t mention - you should buy the book. There are plenty of places to get the templates and to read about it, but Wendler deserves to make a few bucks and having the complete package will only make you more versatile.

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So you’re hypertrophy work is only the supplemental lift in the BBB program, then another lift for chest (on bench press training day) then for example triceps and maybe some delts?

I see joker sets and AMRAP are a training modality rather than a specific template, so is there a particular 5/3/1 variant to follow if I choose to go on a calorie deficit diet? Didn’t quite understand this part you mentioned

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This is why you need the book - to understand all of the different options you can mix and match for different goals. I never really cut or bulk, so I can’t tell you what Jim recommends.

The bottom line is do the 531 lifts. In fact, his template I Ain’t Doing Jack Shit is just that - the main lift and leave. Fifteen minutes a day.

AMRAPS, FSL, Joker Sets, all tools you can add in after you do the main lift. Don’t major in the minors - do the main lift.

After that, choose a template that meets your goals. If you are just starting and have set the TM low, do PR sets, FSL, Joker sets, whatever. When you get into your fifth cycle and shit gets hard, now you need to make good choices.

Bottom line, find a template for your goal, do the main lift, add in what you want as long as it doesn’t affect your ability to recover.

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Fair enough. Will give the book a read. Thanks for the help!

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If you don’t compete, I see no reason for gaining and then cutting and repeat.

After lifting about 3 years I was competing in bodybuilding about 3 contests per year. So my weight did fluctuate.

I weighed 165lbs when I started lifting weights. By 12 years later I weighed 242lbs both body weights with the same percent body fat. My stage body weight was 218lbs. So at that body weight I lost about 24lbs of what was mostly fat and water.

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My only justification is when I do hypertrophy work I bulk to add muscle then cut for summer body to show off the new muscle added. Not sure what training protocol to follow if I pursue a fat loss diet. Any advice for training during a deficit while trying to maintain the size and strength additions from a bulk or maintenance diet phase?

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I am not the best person to assist in that endeavor. I cycled AAS. If I started to cut for a contest, that was when I started a AAS cycle. I would be losing fat, while getting stronger and muscles looking bigger.

My best recommendation is for you to never get fatter than about 15% body fat. I approximate that as major muscle group separation. That is, you look impressive at the beach, but definitely not shredded.

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Understood. Thanks for the help. Greatly appreciated!

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It’s relatively easy to maintain muscle through training. It’s diet that will drive.

What I mean is, there are quite a few studies demonstrating one can maintain muscle already built with less than 1/3 of their previous training volume. Meatheads have also known it for years: in the 80s and 90s we knew Coach had “old man strength” and our magazines referred to “muscle memory.”

When folks lose muscle, it’s usually one of two conditions:

  1. Insane dieting and cardio strategy: if you decide to eat 800 calories a day and run a marathon every week for 6 months, you’re likely to lose some muscle. A caveat here (that I find interesting) is that folks with plenty of body fat to lose still might not lose significant muscle until they get lean enough that muscle is a significant proportion of their weight.
  2. You’re getting very lean: folks getting star ready or making weight for a sport might get to a point where the body has little choice but to shed muscle (but this also combines with point 1 above).

Usually, when we think we’re losing muscle, something else is going on:

  1. We didn’t have as much as we wanted to begin with. It’s the sad reality.
  2. We’re getting smaller in general, as we should, so our sleeves are looser.
  3. We lift under-fueled, so we have a bad day and decide we’re weaker.
  4. We’re flat, so we look worse.
  5. We are smaller, but not yet lean, so we look smoother and chubbier (problem areas are last to go)!

In most cases, a few extra carbs or just resetting your expectations will solve the problem. We all look bigger and better once we actually get lean - stay the course!

So, to your question about training to maintain muscle: I’d personally keep doing what was working to begin with. If you’re aggressively cutting calories and find you can’t recover from the volume, cut it down a little with confidence.

Two things you’ll want to watch for, if you’re concerned:

  1. Drastic swings on the scale
  2. Strength trends (like if you keep getting weaker on a main lift over the course of 4 consecutive weeks, something might not be headed the right direction).
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15

So if I were to follow a program like 5/3/1 BBB…I would cut the supplemental work to a 1/3?
What is best advised for maintaining the strength component while in a deficit diet?

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You wouldn’t follow BBB in a deficit: only during a gaining phase. If you absolutely wanted to continue to follow 5/3/1 for all of your training (not a terrible idea), during periods of deficits, supplemental work would be less challenging than BBB. It would be a good time to focus on max strength/PR sets instead.

Instead of doing 5x10 for the supplemental work, 3-5x5 would be more appropriate. During the main work, going for a PR set or using the joker sets (effectively working toward a heavy single or triple) would be appropriate. Assistance work could get pushed hard in order to maintain muscle.

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So 5/3/1 for main lift then 3-5x5 as supplemental lift.

How much assistance work per muscle worked from the main lift should I look to do?

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So 5/3/1 for main lift

The main WORK. Terms are important with 5/3/1. The main work will always be 5/3/1: it’s a question of if it’s PR sets, 5s pro, bare minimums, etc. And then if joker sets are going to be used or not.

The equation tends to be simple: it’s about balance. If the main work is hard, the supplemental work has to be easy. If the supplemental is hard, the main work is easy. BBB is HARD supplemental work, so we don’t push for PR sets or jokers during that time. PR sets and jokers are HARD main work, so we don’t push for hard supplemental work during that time.

How much assistance work per muscle

Jim breaks this down into upper body push, upper body pull, and single leg/core. A common recommendation is 25-50 reps total for all 3 categories.

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19

Definitely gonna need to get the book to wrap my head around this fully. Which one of his books is the one to start with and then continue with? I see he has multiple books

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5/3/1 Forever lays out everything. That said, it pre-supposes you have an understanding of the 5/3/1 system. If you are diligent in reading it, cover-to-cover, taking notes, highlighting it, writing notes in the margins, and take the time to re-read it when it’s done (treating it like a textbook), you’ll know everything you need to know about the system.

If you want to understand the basics BEFORE that, starting with second edition and moving onto Beyond 5/3/1 would serve you well.

All that said, it’s not like 5/3/1 is the only phasic training system out there. Tactical Barbell does this very well as well.

Ultimately, these are simple concepts that we can just add complexity to.

When training volume is high, intensity naturally reduces, and we eat more food to recover from the training. When that happens, we grow.

When we increase the intensity, training volume naturally reduces, and we don’t need as much food to recover. When that happens, we lean out.

Nutrition is there to support training, rather than the other way around. Eat appropriately for how you are training. In training, we NEED phases of higher volume to allow us to maximize those phases of higher intensity, and those phases of higher intensity allow us to life heavier during the higher volume phases. It’s cyclical and phasic.

Along the way, we also need to prioritize GPP, so we can recover better within and between training sessions. That’s another phase of training too.

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