[quote]superscience wrote:
Im not saying rezaza doesn,t know what he is at but, just because someone is good at something doesn’t mean they know what they are doing, people can train and eat like shit yet still be amazing at something.
[/quote]
Um, Rez also has some of the best support staff (trainers, nutritionists, etc) in the world helping him. He doesn’t do it on his own…
-Dan
Enough talking about how impressive his lift is. I wanna go back to arguing about how fat he is, and whether his fat helps him lift the weight.
[quote]Kliplemet wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Enough talking about how impressive his lift is. I wanna go back to arguing about how fat he is, and whether his fat helps him lift the weight.
me too! i found the discussion very interesting[/quote]
I don’t understand why anyone would think the elastic recoil of the intramuscular fat and sub-cue around the middle (stomach and legs) WOULDN’T help him.
-Dan
[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Enough talking about how impressive his lift is. I wanna go back to arguing about how fat he is, and whether his fat helps him lift the weight.
me too! i found the discussion very interesting
I don’t understand why anyone would think the elastic recoil of the intramuscular fat and sub-cue around the middle (stomach and legs) WOULDN’T help him.
-Dan
[/quote]
yes. and from a plain old mass point of point of view, why would anyone think weighing more WOULDN’T help him ? this isn’t an isolation exercise. he’s putting his bodyweight into it. isn’t that why they have weight classes in the first place ?
[quote]Kliplemet wrote:
buffalokilla wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Enough talking about how impressive his lift is. I wanna go back to arguing about how fat he is, and whether his fat helps him lift the weight.
me too! i found the discussion very interesting
I don’t understand why anyone would think the elastic recoil of the intramuscular fat and sub-cue around the middle (stomach and legs) WOULDN’T help him.
-Dan
i used to think higher body weight means higher strength for an individual, but someone mentioned he now had to squat more weight (FAT)…
still, i can’t believe he can maintain his strength with less fat…[/quote]
yeah he does have to squat more but isn’t the idea the more weight you have the more you can move just because of potential energy or inertia or whatever the word is ? i don’t know much about physics but this seems like common sense to me. you know like a fence post is going to move alot more w/ a 12lb sledge than a 12oz ball pein.
[quote]swivel wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
buffalokilla wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Enough talking about how impressive his lift is. I wanna go back to arguing about how fat he is, and whether his fat helps him lift the weight.
me too! i found the discussion very interesting
I don’t understand why anyone would think the elastic recoil of the intramuscular fat and sub-cue around the middle (stomach and legs) WOULDN’T help him.
-Dan
i used to think higher body weight means higher strength for an individual, but someone mentioned he now had to squat more weight (FAT)…
still, i can’t believe he can maintain his strength with less fat…
yeah he does have to squat more but isn’t the idea the more weight you have the more you can move just because of potential energy or inertia or whatever the word is ? i don’t know much about physics but this seems like common sense to me. you know like a fence post is going to move alot more w/ a 12lb sledge than a 12oz ball pein.
[/quote]
True, but the force is coming from the lower body which forces the weight upwards against gravity, the bar is not the only thing the legs have to lift.
Newtons 1st law is about a bodies tendancy to resist change to its state of motion.
The person has to change the bar’s state of motion from stationary to above the head.
Inertia is directly related to mass meaning a body with greater mass will need greater force to change its state of motion, so the bar with more weight on it will need more force and a person carrying extra body fat will need more force from the legs to move the fat also.
Why do you think a fat person finds it more difficult to do a bodyweight squat than a lean person.
[quote]Kliplemet wrote:
buffalokilla wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Enough talking about how impressive his lift is. I wanna go back to arguing about how fat he is, and whether his fat helps him lift the weight.
me too! i found the discussion very interesting
I don’t understand why anyone would think the elastic recoil of the intramuscular fat and sub-cue around the middle (stomach and legs) WOULDN’T help him.
-Dan
i used to think higher body weight means higher strength for an individual, but someone mentioned he now had to squat more weight (FAT)…
still, i can’t believe he can maintain his strength with less fat…[/quote]
More body weight does not always mean you will be stronger, it depends on whether you are adding lbm or fm.
Explain to me how 1 stone of fat added (without any lbm) will increase your strength and power.
If more body weight was just the case why dont we all stop lifting weights now , get heavy, fat and become the worlds greatest strongmen.
[quote]swivel wrote:
buffalokilla wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Enough talking about how impressive his lift is. I wanna go back to arguing about how fat he is, and whether his fat helps him lift the weight.
me too! i found the discussion very interesting
I don’t understand why anyone would think the elastic recoil of the intramuscular fat and sub-cue around the middle (stomach and legs) WOULDN’T help him.
-Dan
yes. and from a plain old mass point of point of view, why would anyone think weighing more WOULDN’T help him ? this isn’t an isolation exercise. he’s putting his bodyweight into it. isn’t that why they have weight classes in the first place ?[/quote]
Weight classes are there for obvious reasons. The heavier somone gets the stronger they “SHOULD” be (lbm should be added to get stronger), this is not always the case.
The fat guy front squatting at the beginning of this thread would get crushed with 700.
Discuss.
[quote]RickJames wrote:
The fat guy front squatting at the beginning of this thread would get crushed with 700.
Discuss.[/quote]
Hard to say, but by the way he doubled with 617 and casually walked to the racks, he may have it in him. Also, OLers usually squat after doing some OL movements.
[quote]superscience wrote:
Why do you think a fat person finds it more difficult to do a bodyweight squat than a lean person. [/quote]
well, i’d say it’s because the average fat guy you’re referring to has never lifted and has no strength. rezazadeh, and lots of other trained fat guys, make easier work of a bodyweight squat than most lean people.[quote]
More body weight does not always mean you will be stronger, it depends on whether you are adding lbm or fm.
Explain to me how 1 stone of fat added (without any lbm) will increase your strength and power. [/quote]
that’s what i’m wondering. say rezazedah has maxed out his strength and power for the period he’s working in. wouldn’t a few extra pounds, in the form of fat which is easier to put on than muscle, in addition to his already maximal stregth help him move objects ? isn’t this what sumo wrestlers do ?[quote]
If more body weight was just the case why dont we all stop lifting weights now , get heavy, fat and become the worlds greatest strongmen. [/quote]
i don’t think it’s that simple. i can squat more than my fat friend, who also outwieghs me by about 60 lbs. but he can get a car rolling faster than me. now i train the squat and he really doesn’t train at all. if he did i think he could squat the same weight faster than me.
i dont understand this talk of what if hossein was leaner? he has gold medals and world records yes there are leaner lifters out there but its not a beauty contest its about who can lift the most and no one can compete with him, especially in the C&J. its not about whether he does triple bodyweight or not its about doing more weuight than anybody else
and being bigger does help… alot! remember…force=mass x acceleration
[quote]swivel wrote:
superscience wrote:
Why do you think a fat person finds it more difficult to do a bodyweight squat than a lean person.
well, i’d say it’s because the average fat guy you’re referring to has never lifted and has no strength. rezazadeh, and lots of other trained fat guys, make easier work of a bodyweight squat than most lean people.
Not a lean person who lifted weights
More body weight does not always mean you will be stronger, it depends on whether you are adding lbm or fm.
Explain to me how 1 stone of fat added (without any lbm) will increase your strength and power.
that’s what i’m wondering. say rezazedah has maxed out his strength and power for the period he’s working in. wouldn’t a few extra pounds, in the form of fat which is easier to put on than muscle, in addition to his already maximal stregth help him move objects ? isn’t this what sumo wrestlers do ?
Sumo wrestling is different to weightlifting, sumo wrestlers use their weight to barge things out of the ring, weightlifters lift a bar to over head.
Do you not think added muscle would do him better, or even added muscle with a loss of fat.
If more body weight was just the case why dont we all stop lifting weights now , get heavy, fat and become the worlds greatest strongmen.
i don’t think it’s that simple. i can squat more than my fat friend, who also outwieghs me by about 60 lbs. but he can get a car rolling faster than me. now i train the squat and he really doesn’t train at all. if he did i think he could squat the same weight faster than me.
Exactly you just contradict yourself here showing why a fat person could move a car faster than you but squat less.
[/quote]
[quote]lifthevythrowfar wrote:
i dont understand this talk of what if hossein was leaner? he has gold medals and world records yes there are leaner lifters out there but its not a beauty contest its about who can lift the most and no one can compete with him, especially in the C&J. its not about whether he does triple bodyweight or not its about doing more weuight than anybody else
and being bigger does help… alot! remember…force=mass x velocity[/quote]
This all started because i gave an explanation to why hossein can only do a double bodyweight fs squat (which is amazing considering his circumstances). Then an argument breaks out and i try to explain how loss of fat with maintanence of lbm could help your lifts (it helped me).
If people are worried about Newton’s first law why dont we all try it out, everyone were a weighted vest to the gym to see if it helps your lifts or verticle jump.
[quote]RickJames wrote:
The fat guy front squatting at the beginning of this thread would get crushed with 700.
Discuss.[/quote]
Is your front squat not normally 80% of your back squat.
I heard he can full squat 900 for 2 or 3 reps (don’t have a clue if this is true).
Lets say he can full squat 900 this would make his 700 front squat 78% of his back squat.
I think he could manage it, he does 280kg like its nothing, probably after some oly lifting.
[quote]superscience wrote:
swivel wrote:
superscience wrote:
Why do you think a fat person finds it more difficult to do a bodyweight squat than a lean person.
well, i’d say it’s because the average fat guy you’re referring to has never lifted and has no strength. rezazadeh, and lots of other trained fat guys, make easier work of a bodyweight squat than most lean people.
Not a lean person who lifted weights
More body weight does not always mean you will be stronger, it depends on whether you are adding lbm or fm.
Explain to me how 1 stone of fat added (without any lbm) will increase your strength and power.
that’s what i’m wondering. say rezazedah has maxed out his strength and power for the period he’s working in. wouldn’t a few extra pounds, in the form of fat which is easier to put on than muscle, in addition to his already maximal stregth help him move objects ? isn’t this what sumo wrestlers do ?
Sumo wrestling is different to weightlifting, sumo wrestlers use their weight to barge things out of the ring, weightlifters lift a bar to over head.
Do you not think added muscle would do him better, or even added muscle with a loss of fat.
If more body weight was just the case why dont we all stop lifting weights now , get heavy, fat and become the worlds greatest strongmen.
i don’t think it’s that simple. i can squat more than my fat friend, who also outwieghs me by about 60 lbs. but he can get a car rolling faster than me. now i train the squat and he really doesn’t train at all. if he did i think he could squat the same weight faster than me.
Exactly you just contradict yourself here showing why a fat person could move a car faster than you but squat less.
[/quote]
…clearly this is going no where.
until someone who knows wtf they’re talking about gets here, i’m sticking with force = mass x acceleration.
which means you can increase force by increasing either of the variables. which means rez can increase force by being bigger as long as it doesn’t slow him down too much. obviously from the vids he’s not too slow.
[quote]swivel wrote:
superscience wrote:
swivel wrote:
superscience wrote:
Why do you think a fat person finds it more difficult to do a bodyweight squat than a lean person.
well, i’d say it’s because the average fat guy you’re referring to has never lifted and has no strength. rezazadeh, and lots of other trained fat guys, make easier work of a bodyweight squat than most lean people.
Not a lean person who lifted weights
More body weight does not always mean you will be stronger, it depends on whether you are adding lbm or fm.
Explain to me how 1 stone of fat added (without any lbm) will increase your strength and power.
that’s what i’m wondering. say rezazedah has maxed out his strength and power for the period he’s working in. wouldn’t a few extra pounds, in the form of fat which is easier to put on than muscle, in addition to his already maximal stregth help him move objects ? isn’t this what sumo wrestlers do ?
Sumo wrestling is different to weightlifting, sumo wrestlers use their weight to barge things out of the ring, weightlifters lift a bar to over head.
Do you not think added muscle would do him better, or even added muscle with a loss of fat.
If more body weight was just the case why dont we all stop lifting weights now , get heavy, fat and become the worlds greatest strongmen.
i don’t think it’s that simple. i can squat more than my fat friend, who also outwieghs me by about 60 lbs. but he can get a car rolling faster than me. now i train the squat and he really doesn’t train at all. if he did i think he could squat the same weight faster than me.
Exactly you just contradict yourself here showing why a fat person could move a car faster than you but squat less.
…clearly this is going no where.
until someone who knows wtf they’re talking about gets here, i’m sticking with force = mass x acceleration.
which means you can increase force by increasing either of the variables. which means rez can increase force by being bigger as long as it doesn’t slow him down too much. obviously from the vids he’s not too slow.[/quote]
Just because you don’t understand what im saying does not mean i don’t know what im talking about.
It would be much easier to show this with pencil and paper.
Increases in body fat were negatively correlated with performance in the PowerClean and VerticleJump for all groups.
[quote]superscience wrote:
Increases in body fat were negatively correlated with performance in the PowerClean and VerticleJump for all groups.
Increases in body weight were positively correlated with increases in Bench Press and PowerClean performance for all groups.
i’d call that a wash. even a plus in the bench category…
really bro, with a name like “superscience” you should be just crushing me on this.
[quote]superscience wrote:
Sorry for getting back to this argument again but, a perfect example to show this argument is shane hammon, hes 5ft9 350lbs and squats 1008lbs and clean and jerks 237k . Compare this to Pyros Dimas who is of similar height and nearly half his weight. He could clean and jerk 215kg only 22kg behind despite him weighing nearly half. [/quote]
Firstly, I think that the (as you see it) small diff between Dimas and Hamman C&J is more a skill thing than a strength thing (Dimas=o lifter for life, Hamman was a PLer for a long time before turning to OL). Secondly, could Dimas ever gain enough weight to get that extra 22kg? I think not. And thirdly, what does he squat? I’m betting that, impressive as it is, it’s a damn sight less than 1000lbs.
As for Pudz; WSM is totally different from OL. Most of the events do not test limit strength; more speed (that is, travelling speed) and strength endurance; which is why the champ, Pudz, is lean like a sprinter rather than bulky like pretty much every world SHW champion in PL and OL ever. Could Paul Anderson have been any stronger by dropping a few? What about Garry Frank? And for all the talk on other threads about big bellies being a hindrance in the DL, anyone seen Andy Bolton’s gut? As a general rule, the strongest in terms of limit strength tend to be a bit on the fat side. Hossein would not be stronger by being leaner.