High-Frequency High-Volume Training Supplementation?

As a probably 4-week experiment, I’m looking at doing some very high frequency training.

I haven’t totally nailed down what I’ll be doing. It will be something like 2-workouts a day on a 3-day split, and repeat. Roughly 60-72 hours between training each muscle group.

A: Chest, Shoulders
B: Back, Arms
C: Legs, Glutes, Calves

For instance, I’d train chest in my morning workout, then throughout the day, I’d continue training the chest with drop-sets, high-volume sets, rest pause, etc. Trying to hit a high amount of volume in a given day, with a few hours between sessions.

I’m already supplementing with fish oil, and might work up to 30+g a day from an inflammation standpoint (Poliquin’s recommendation). Also since creatine is supposedly good for recovery, I’m adding 5-8g a day of that in.

In terms of general stamina, “CNS fatigue”, recovery, what else should I be looking at?

I know Gironda recommended dessicated liver, and some people have had success with recovery from it, but with respect to modern supplements, liver sounds a tad hokey. I’m guessing the benefits they experienced are mainly due to the B-vitamins, and maybe the aminos. However, since I have a bottle of it already, I’ll use it too.

As part of this experiment, I want to see exactly how hard I can push things before I run into strength loss; I want to push the edge to see how close I can get before hitting something resembling true overtraining.

How old are you?

28

Have you tried just a simple split? Srs question. Your questions are all over the place and you seem to be trying some new technique or “experiment” every week.

I didn’t think my questions were all over the place, nor have I really done anything different.

Since I started lifting seriously (early June), I’ve stuck with a single routine, 2-3x a week. Started at 3, moved more toward 2 as the weights went up. This is the same 20rep squat program I’ve described in a few places… I can repeat here if you want.

The intentions of that program are to put on a fair amount of mass in a fairly short period of time, mostly via a combination of progression, and stimulating GH, IGF and T production by starting each workout with high-rep squats. I put on 15 lbs in about 8 weeks, and then did an unintentional recomp simply by not eating enough for a couple weeks.

The only experimenting I’ve done is trying two different protocols for direct arm work. The only arm work in the original program is indirect through ohp, rows, sldls and bench. Given that my arms are more of a weak point – relatively – I decided to add some direct arm work after everything else.

I’ve not really done any program hopping at all here. Just tried two different approaches for training arms.

I’m still seeing progress with it. I asked a few weeks ago in the bb forum to get an idea when it’s a good time to change up my program, and the answer was pretty much unanimously: if it’s still working, keep doing it.

However, I’m trying to find a way to squeeze even more results out of it. I already have 48-72 hours between training muscle groups; I want to keep that, since my body is still growing on it. I don’t see a need to move to 1 week between muscle groups yet, such as with a standard split.

One option I’m considering is to simply increase the volume. I have one condition: to keep progressing on the core lifts, just as before, with the same set-rep scheme. If those aren’t going up, then this approach is a failure.

In terms of increasing the volume, I would do the regular lift as my first workout. Then, later, I’d continue to add in the volume, taking advantage of the recovery a few hours break can give you.

For an actual example, I’m currently doing 3x12 for bench press. I would do that in the first workout. Later in the day, I’d do more work for the chest… whether it be 3x12 with a lighter weight, or flyes/pec-dec, or whatever. Just keep hammering volume into that muscle group. Then, give it 72 hours to rest, and do it again.

This is the idea at least.

Doing a fullbody workout then adding volume to every muscle group is probably too much, so I’m looking at splitting it up across 3 days, and working 6 days a week. I’ll still hit each muscle group only 2x a week though, just for more volume than before.

So, hence this thread, to figure out what I should look at – supplement-wise – from a recovery, sleep, energy standpoint.

If I see outstanding results, that would be awesome. I may just drive myself into the ground… because it’s simply too much volume. In which case, I’d either make some changes, or go back to what I was doing. I.e., it’s an experiment.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

I’m still seeing progress with it. [/quote]

This is all I needed to read. Hopefully you catch my drift =)

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I’m still seeing progress with it. [/quote]

This is all I needed to read. Hopefully you catch my drift =)[/quote]

Yeah, I do. And I’d be sticking with it if it weren’t for external factors. Like, hearing your long-time girlfriend flat out tell you she doesn’t see a future with you.

It kind of made me re-evaluate a few things… like “I’d like to look better than I do now, and faster, if I’m going to be dating again”. And just a lot of emotional bullshit energy that I could probably use in the gym.

So, without changing too much from what I’m doing, I want to know how far I can push it until I get diminishing returns. And I know for sure that I’m going to need to have my nutrition and sleep spot-on for that to work if I’m going to significantly up the volume.

Man I haven’t read all of this thread but I gave you some advice in another thread about training arms. You clearly just ignored it. Why don’t you just pick a split and do it for 6 months. Kill it in the gym and kitchen and I guarantee you’ll make gains.

Some of the stuff you propose are things that NOBODY with 12.5" arms should be doing.

Ok. I didn’t ignore it, but I did answer above why I genuinely think it’s not quite time to move to a split.

What I’m proposing is rearranging the program I’m currently doing, and upping the volume. If it works, it works. If not, it doesn’t. I appreciate your advice, and I understand that you’re mostly just trying to dissuade me from doing something stupid.

I realize I’m straying from the mainstream. What I’m looking for is: “I would never recommend you do that, but if you’re going to do it anyway, this is how I would do it”. For instance, I would never recommend a kid drop out of college and try to break into a successful career without a degree. But if they’re going to do it anyway, I have suggestions to help them. It can be done, but it requires a different kind of diligence than the path most people take.

I know that such an increase in volume will require much more food, much more sleep, and may cause overuse injures to joints, ligaments, tendons. I’ve got that much taken care of.

What I want to know is if there is any additional supplementation I should be considering as far as improving stamina and recovery ability?

If I’m seeing my strength drop, I’m doing it wrong. I want to know what factors I should be considering, that would allow me to ramp up the volume and still see progressive gains… short of AAS.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Ok. I didn’t ignore it, but I did answer above why I genuinely think it’s not quite time to move to a split.

What I’m proposing is rearranging the program I’m currently doing, and upping the volume. If it works, it works. If not, it doesn’t. I appreciate your advice, and I understand that you’re mostly just trying to dissuade me from doing something stupid.

I realize I’m straying from the mainstream. What I’m looking for is: “I would never recommend you do that, but if you’re going to do it anyway, this is how I would do it”. For instance, I would never recommend a kid drop out of college and try to break into a successful career without a degree. But if they’re going to do it anyway, I have suggestions to help them. It can be done, but it requires a different kind of diligence than the path most people take.

I know that such an increase in volume will require much more food, much more sleep, and may cause overuse injures to joints, ligaments, tendons. I’ve got that much taken care of.

What I want to know is if there is any additional supplementation I should be considering as far as improving stamina and recovery ability?

If I’m seeing my strength drop, I’m doing it wrong. I want to know what factors I should be considering, that would allow me to ramp up the volume and still see progressive gains… short of AAS.[/quote]

What it looks like you’re suggesting here is that you’re going to do your main workout in the morning (full body thing, right?) and then doing a second workout later in the day focusing on adding more volume? Correct me if I’m wrong.

You say that you don’t think it’s time to move to a split yet you’re saying you want to do two a days and splitting your body up for your secondary exercises?! I honestly think this is madness as you really don’t need to be using these techniques to be getting gains. If you do, then you’re doing it wrong.

As for adding volume while also progressing on your main lifts. You can 100% do this within a 4/5 day a week split without having to do two a days. If your goal is bodybuilding/hypertrophy then I’d still recommend doing a split and having a main movement at the beginning of the workout that you focus getting stronger on. You can choose the rep range and volume you use and just keep putting weight on the bar or adding reps each week. Yes, it really is that simple at your level.

Supplement wise, you aren’t going to find a magic pill that helps with recovery. Food is going to be doing most of that. So make sure you’re working hard in the kitchen as well as in the gym, results will follow. When you have your diet down then think about adding a peri-workout protocol where you’re consuming fast carbs and protein before and during your workout. Obviously on top of those make sure you’re taking your vitamins, fishoil etc…

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I’m still seeing progress with it. [/quote]

This is all I needed to read. Hopefully you catch my drift =)[/quote]

Yeah, I do. And I’d be sticking with it if it weren’t for external factors. Like, hearing your long-time girlfriend flat out tell you she doesn’t see a future with you.

It kind of made me re-evaluate a few things… like “I’d like to look better than I do now, and faster, if I’m going to be dating again”. And just a lot of emotional bullshit energy that I could probably use in the gym.

So, without changing too much from what I’m doing, I want to know how far I can push it until I get diminishing returns. And I know for sure that I’m going to need to have my nutrition and sleep spot-on for that to work if I’m going to significantly up the volume.[/quote]

Then you’re embarking on this experimental odyssey for the wrong reasons and this isn’t an issue of supplementation if you’ve only been training seriously since early June.