High Frequency FB Training (For GF)

Training
1

NOTE
I have no idea how to train somebody besides myself…I just run 5/3/1 or Ed Coan Cycles or Sheiko program because I just Powerlift. :frowning:

My girlfriend, based on strength charts, is still an intermediate lifter. Her main goals in this order are..

  1. Lose Body Fat(130lbs @ 5’8 around 15-16%)
  2. Bring her legs up ALOT!
  3. Have emphasis on Shoulders
  4. Get much stronger,and more developed everywhere

She feels that Full Body 3-4x a week would benefit her the most,and I agree because of how weak she is(100ish squat,90ish bench,150ish deadlift).

There is a bit of confusion because she keeps hearing 2 different stories:

  1. It’s better to change the exercise selection as much as possible with FB 3-4X a week
  2. It’s better to keep the same handful of exercises and do them for a long time

Which one should she do then? There are two templates below; the first one keeps the same exercises each time, the second changes them.

Template #1:

  1. Flat Bench 2x
  2. Close Grip Bench 2x
  3. Shoulder Press 2x
  4. Squat 2x
  5. Sumo Deadlift 2x [Note:May have to just do this once a week,Stiff DL on others?]
  6. Leg Press 2x
  7. Row 2x
  8. Chin 2x
  9. Bicep Curl 2x
    10.Tricep curl 2x
    (+side or rear raise/ab/calf)

REP RANGE: Cycles from 10 reps @ beginning of cycle down to 3-5 reps at the end[12weeks] on all movements except ‘accessory type’ ones like Leg Press/Bi/Tri Curl/Raises; Accessory kind movements.

Template #2
Mon-
A)Lower Body Compound #1 - BACK SQUAT
B)Lower Body Compound #2 - Wide Leg Press
C)Upper Body Push Compound - Incline Bench
D)Upper Body Pull Compound- Pullups
E)Explosive Movement - DB Power Clean
F)Accessory work: Shoulder Press,Bicep Curl,Rear Raise,Leg Extensions

Wed-
A)Lower Body Compound #1 - SUMO DEADLIFT
B)Lower Body Compound #2 - Good Morning
C)Upper Body Push Compound - Close Grip Bench
D)Upper Body Pull Compound - TBAR Row
E)Explosive Movement - Box Jumps
F)Accessory work: Tricep Pushdown,Cable Rows,Side Raise,Hamstring Curls

Fri-
A)Lower Body Compound #1 - FRONT SQUAT
B)Lower Body Compound #2 - Weighted Hyper/GHR
C)Upper Body Push Compound - Flat Bench
D)Upper Body Pull Compound - Chinups
E)Explosive Movement - Hang Clean
F)Accessory work: HS Incline,Lat Pulldown,Side Raise,Bicep Curl,Leg Extensions

Sat-
A)Lower Body Compound #1 - Stiff Deadlift
B)Lower Body Compound #2 - Narrow Leg Press
C)Upper Body Push Compound - Decline Close Grip Bench
D)Upper Body Pull Compound - Barbell Row
E)Explosive Movement - Push Press
F)Accessory work: High Incline DB Press(delts),Tri Extension,HS Row,Rear Raise,Hamstring Curls

REP RANGE: Cycling 5x5->4x8->10x3->3x10 for 1 month each on Compound/Explosive. Accessory is all higher rep ranges;10-15-20.

What do you all feel about working with these Full Body templates for a woman with these goals?

I seriously am lost. This feels so overwhelming to me… trying to figure out something that will make my girlfriend be much stronger,and much more confident as quickly as possible,and most importantly..

Not kick my ass for telling her to do something that didn’t work LOL.

2

Oops, just a clarification:

#1) She is currently 130lbs @ 5’8 , 15-16%. She’s trying to get much lower…I’m guessing around 10%

3

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
She’s trying to get much lower…I’m guessing around 10%
[/quote]
Why?

That’s highly unlikely unless she ends up a pro bodybuilder. Female athletes usually sit at 15-20%.

4

Yeah she wants to be pro.

5

When did she get the idea to “be a pro” when she is not currently even that strong? One step at a time is what I recommend for anything, especially this.

6

Based on private messages I have gotten, I believe this is what she’s going to use.

#1)Squat 5 sets - 10,8,6,4-6,15 reps
#2)Bench 5 sets - 10,8,6,4-6,15 reps
#3)Row 4 sets - 10,8,6,15 reps
#4)Press 4 sets - 10,8,6,15 reps
#5)Curls 4 sets - 10,8,6,15 reps
#6)Tri Extension 4 sets - 10,8,6,15 reps

+calves/abs

This will be performed 3 times a week.

Once she can get all the reps on the heaviest set of each exercise(so 6 reps), and feels she can get 2 more, she will increase the weight.

The 15 rep backoff on each exercise is a set where the weight will be dropped and used for a higher rep burnout. She will also try to add reps onto the 15 rep set, and once she gets 20, she will up the weight on that set as well.

To give an example…

Squat 225x10
Squat 225x8
Squat 225x6
Squat 225x4-6 *
Squat 155x15 **

  • = set where you push to get 6 reps again, if you get 6 & feel you can get 2 more, then +weight
    ** = set where you do 15 reps backoff, try to keep adding reps until 20, then increase weight

Then when she has built a good enough base, it may be time to move on to an emphasized program like…

Mon- Quad/Hams
Tue- Chest
Thu- Back/Tricep
Sat- Shoulder/Bicep

etc

7

One thing I would recommend with doing that high rep range for squats is to watch her form. If it starts to break down then stop. Don’t push for the rest of the reps because she’ll end up hurting herself.

Also, she has to understand that getting down to 10% bf should be cycled and centered around a competition, if she really wants to do that. She needs to focus on one thing at a time. Get stronger first then work towards a competition goal. If she tries to diet down and get stronger at the same time, something is going to give. She has to understand that this is a life journey, not a 3 week fix all trip. I know some women who start focusing on a competition up to a year in advance.

I think a program like 5/3/1 with the BBB addition and some accessories would do her just fine for building strength. The accessories could be aimed at volume work, rehab, and stretching just to keep her body fully functioning.

PS: She should have some hamstring work in that cycle to make sure that she doesn’t get imbalanced. I learned that the hard way. Glute bridges, hamstring curls, pullthroughs, RDLs or their single-leg version. You’ll enjoy the view. Did I mention stretching and foam rolling? Proper warmups?

8

I agree, and will definetly do that with the squats. I will tell her everything you said.

Do you feel 5/3/1 will give her gains as quickly & effectively as FB 3x a week?

It would be much better for me if she could do 5/3/1 because it will work better with my schedule too.

lol

9

I think 5/3/1 will give her the gains in a more controlled way. I like the structure it gives for the main lifts and the volume work that you can get in with the BBB. Also, with 5/3/1 she can ‘test’ herself every week with the last set, so it gives her that feeling of accomplishment in being able to see where she’s come from. It’ll give her a goal to reach for every time.

I’ve found that the upper body portion progression is a little harder to keep up with, mainly because it’s a little more difficult to gain strength in the upper body for women in comparison to men. It’s not impossible, you just might have to get her to mix it up. See what works better for her body. Does she respond better to volume work or heavy lifting with lower rep ranges? Everyone is a little different and you’ll have to play a bit. I found I made the best gains with my bench when I was doing it two or three times a week. I found a groove and was more comfortable with the weight. I wasn’t going heavy all the time. It was the constant work and volume involved that helped me out. That’s why I like the BBB stuff for my upper body.

If you put her on 5/3/1, don’t use her current maxes as the starting values. Use 70-80% of her current max and drop that number into the program. Do that for all the lifts. Let the volume and the last set per week do the work it’s supposed to do. If she wants to keep the feel for the heavier weights, do a quick set of 1-3 at 80-90% of her max afterwards, just to keep her comfortable.

You should get her on here to ask questions :slight_smile:

10

There is lots and lots of truth and good information in what you are saying, and for that, I appreciate your response.

Based on my observations, I feel like she very quickly can lose strength and goes several steps backwards if she doesn’t keep ‘plugging away’. What this indicates to me(personally), is that she simply loses the neural capacity to perform lifts very quickly or loses motivation fast or both.

A good example is, she went from not being able to squat the bar(I’m serious) to squatting 115 for a rep in about a months time or less.She was squatting 3x a week, and I kept having to try to force her to just listen to me and stick with a PROGRESSION instead of just choosing random numbers each time (like in 5/3/1 programming). Recently,I don’t think she could even do 100 pounds once,and her strength has plummeted. Same thing happened with her bench,she got up to about 95-100 pounds, and now is probably down to 80-85.I think this is due to lots of family/school/psychological issues that have occurred, but also she just loses her neural capacity very very quickly. I’m guessing this is because she is such a beginner,she just needs to constantly keep practicing & doing the lifts…?

You said that you feel like you need to bench 2-3x a week otherwise you lose strength. She is the same(what a coincidence); perhaps she should have a close grip and incline bench variation done on different days as well so that she can keep getting stronger/keeping that neural capacity. Do you agree with this, or should she stick with one variation on all 3 days? My train of thought is using the same 1-2 bench movements and just getting better at them, I would like to see what you think.

I will take into account all the info you said about the “BBB” assistance program for 5/3/1.

Do you find any fault with this kind of 5/3/1 weekly template?

Sun- SQUAT (Lower Assistance)
Mon- BENCH (Chest/Bi Assistance)
Wed- DLIFT (Back/Tri Assistance)
Fri- PRESS (Shoulder assistance)

One more thing I would like to add, is that she is begging me for some…“program” that is going to blow her legs up. I keep telling her if she gets her squat up to 200x20 reps that they will be good,but she doesn’t seem to feel she can ever do that even though I know she can. Do you have any suggestions for that specifically?

Also, I’m going to ask her to make a T-Nation account asap. Literally texting her about it now. =p

11

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I keep telling her if she gets her squat up to 200x20 reps that they will be good[/quote]

That would put her 1 RM at approximately 425 lb. Pretty phenomenal for a 130-lb. woman. In fact, so phenomenal that I’ve never seen it.

In all seriousness, strength is a journey. It doesn’t happen overnight. Throwing out numbers like 20 x 200 squat and 10% bodyfat aren’t useful at this stage. She should just pick a program and get started.

12

I find that it’s very psychological with me. If I don’t feel the weight often enough, I lose a little confidence. It does have a LITTLE to do with the fact that it’s harder for women to hold on to muscle (lack of testosterone kinda sucks there) but the repetition of the motion definitely helps create those neural pathways and muscle memory. She doesn’t have enough time under the bar yet. Neither do I, really. I’ve only been working out for about four years now. I’m still a little inconsistent and I managed to pick up a knee injury from throwing in the Highland games that’s set me back a bit. So yeah, she needs to get the reps in to make sure she holds onto the strength she builds.

When I was benching 2-3x a week, I varied it. Did one day regular, one close in, and mixed it up with dumbbells just to keep the shoulders happy. If you’re doing it right, shouldn’t chew up her shoulders too much. You’ll have to cycle it and make sure she’s doing enough assistance work to keep everything functional, but it works.

As far as “blowing her legs up”, get her doing more hamstring work and bodyweight work. With the bodyweight work she can get in volume and groove motions. Bodyweight squats and bulgarian split squats are awesome. Glute bridges, GHR machine, single leg RDLs, pull throughs are all good too. I try to stay away from lunges (they don’t agree with my knees) but if you watch her form and she feels fine, go for it. Don’t be afraid to get her doing adductor and abductor to keep some balance as well. Kill the crap out of her calves with high rep stuff, too. A big squat will definitely build her legs but volume does wonders. Oh, kettle bell swings make my legs feel awesome. Even doing just 30-50 a day, doesn’t have to be a heavy weight, will do wonders.

Maybe do one extra move a day that’s specifically for the legs at the end of her workout, after abs (planks and paloff presses are awesome). Start out doing 50 reps and slowly creep it up. The goal isn’t ruining her in the weight room. It’s giving her the capacity to do MORE. Keep reminding her that building strength requires a good base. A good base requires a huge amount of reps. That’s what 5/3/1 is based on. Getting in the reps.

I’d say try out the program for two months and see how she feels. Make sure that cardio, warmups and stretching afterward are done and you’ll be golden. Sad thing is women will always have to do more cardio than men because of the sheer disparity in body composition that exists.

13

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I keep telling her if she gets her squat up to 200x20 reps that they will be good[/quote]

That would put her 1 RM at approximately 425 lb. Pretty phenomenal for a 130-lb. woman. In fact, so phenomenal that I’ve never seen it.

In all seriousness, strength is a journey. It doesn’t happen overnight. Throwing out numbers like 20 x 200 squat and 10% bodyfat aren’t useful at this stage. She should just pick a program and get started.[/quote]

Agree. When you say that, she’s probably thinking of that as an immediate goal. Plus, she’s probably expecting waaaaay too much of herself right away. It’ll take years, decades, to build that kind of solid strength. Give her more immediate goals. Talk to her about where she wants to be in 5 months and see if what she’s saying is even realistic. It might not be. And whatever you start her on, make sure she sticks with it for at least two months. Any shorter and it’s just not going to give you any relevant feedback.

14

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
That would put her 1 RM at approximately 425 lb. Pretty phenomenal for a 130-lb. woman. In fact, so phenomenal that I’ve never seen it.
[/quote]

Actually, I stand corrected. Check out BlackWidowGirl’s log. She weighs more than 130 but is repping 225 like it’s nothing. Very impressive.

15

If you look on bb.com, there is a girl there who Squats 250x20+ and Deadlifts 310x20+ and she is ripped to shreds lean, probably only weighs 140-150 (but she’s like 6 feet tall or something) so yeah ha