== Scott ==
But once you start implementing pre exhaustion and drop sets etc you are no longer in the confines that of 30 10 30?? I thought you ment you cold continue with 30 10 30 but employ other loading methods, drop sets doesn’t fit in 30 10 30?
That is exactly why it’s hard to unhook from the old throw up or your a boob way. You cant just turn it off like a light switch.
Scott
I often mix them. It’s not just 30-10-30. 30-10-30 is good, but it’s not the end-all training method. Learn from it and move forward.
The 10 Hidden Principles apply to my new concepts. You don’t have to go to failure. But if you do occasionally, it’s no big deal. Reread the 10 ideas again and think a little about each one. They took months to generate and get just right.
I kick myself every day for not realizing them earlier. But hey, like someone said yesterday, the old stuff worked pretty good for a long time.
It’s time, however, to progress in a different direction.
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So it is the synergy of several things that makes the difference: use of extended negatives (30-10-30 variants), avoid beating up your nervous system with too many sets to failure, and short rest times between exercises for metabolic conditioning?
I think one of the mistakes you can make is too much rest between sets. I suppose for power lifting or strong man stuff you need it but as far as ‘bodybuilding’ goes, I think Gironda had it right with striving to have rest between sets so short you don’t even put the bar down. That’s pretty hard to do because of grip fatigue effecting things , but I definitely don’t take my hands off the piece until all my sets of that movement are done which isn’t that long if you’re only taking 15-20 seconds between sets and doing two or three sets.
Yes, yes, yes.
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I still struggle to separate hypertrophy and strength outcomes when training. My personal bias is to push more weight when I can, and once I go down that path, I start to want or need longer rest times. Not saying that your approach doesn’t work. I’ve seem plenty of examples where it does. But I just never seem to be able to stick with that approach of doing a lot more reps and sets, and getting gassed.
Dr Darden
for those who don’t have the set up for incorporating “metabolic conditioning” in their training either for a prolonged period or at all , such as those at very busy commercial premises or those with limited or non selectorised equipment with a home gym , what changes would you suggest to make their workouts more productive ?
Mark
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Dr Darden,
How long rest time in between sets is too long? When is the absolute cut-off in terms of rest, in your opinion?
I’d suggest pairing exercises that are done with the same approximate resistance.
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30 seconds between exercises at first and decrease the time each week. 35 to 40 seconds would be too long.
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Dr Darden–Are there suitable substitutions for the sprints?Burpees,kettlebell swings?Thanks for your commentary.
Something similar to a Bob Gajda PHA workout?
Scott
I go to a box gym…la fitness…i now go at 5am m/w/f when they first open, at that time there is probably 10 people in there at the most, therefore, I move from one exercise to the next within 20 seconds…i found a way to make it flow
When I went at other times I could not make it happen because too many people and others hogging the machine for 10 sets, lol
I’ve done it successfully with a bicycle ergometer instead of running. I haven’t tried burpees, but they might work. Dumbbell squats would be another substitution.
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I forgot about Bob’s PHA. He grouped exercises in threes and moved through them in several cycles.
I too fell into the mindset of failure and reducing frequency…but once I started the extreme hit 30-10-30 and not going to failure, it became easier not to worry about increasing weight and reps in every workout…at this time, after following the program, I took a week off and am incorporating the original metcon workout from 1975 (improvised of course because of the different equipment)…i lost a few extra pounds also which was an added plus…i plan on doing this for about 4 to 6 weeks and will return to the 30-10-30
I have had an easy time switching to 10-30-10, and once I got more equipment, easy to reduce the time between sets to a bare minimum, but I can’t seem to stop myself from going to total failure on both the positive and final negative. Now I have ended up with the most incredibly painful DOMS in my thighs from going to heavy on 10-30-10 vest squats. DOMS for more than a week, and still have a groin injury and stiffness in one knee left over that could take weeks to heal.
Trying to find some justification for my stupidity I searched through many Darden books and all the publications in the Arthur Jones Library to no avail. Jones speaks of DOMS in trainees not used to HIT, and even more experienced trainees doing movements they are not used to, that required hospitalization to treat, and makes it clear this is something to avoid with very little hope of a positive outcome.
For me it is the final negative of 10-30-10 I think that makes it so critical to avoid going to failure. My calves have grown right down into my feet to the point of changing my shoe size, but I can hardly stand up LOL.
Kirkre,
Did you do a direct calve movement? Or was it from the squats.
I did the squats once a week for three weeks, the first two times I did 10-30-10 leg extensions immediately followed by hyper style vest squats, using my fingers on a rack to assist the positive reps in order to accentuate the negative, immediately followed by one legged calf raises using the same vest, also done in the same hyper style. I recovered from this normally and most of my calf growth was probably from this routine, but I do attribute the calf growth largely to the squat routine because I have never had one legged calf raises produce this much growth, with any amount of weight. It was the third time that did me in. I started with 10-30-10 vest squats using the same weight as before, but failed to realize just how much more intense 10-30-10 would be compared to hyper style with the same weight, which is only too clear to me now. No calf raises on this third week, but my calves did continue to grow non stop. My left leg is the side which now has residual groin and knee pain, and my left calf has continued to grow larger than my right as the DOMS subsided in my right leg. I guess this may be some evidence that the pain itself is a growth stimulant, but not worth it believe me. I am confident I’ll see more growth with 10-30-10 by holding back and concentrating on form.