Help with Routine/Focus

Training Powerlifting
1

Hey guys. I am struggling with a few things right now. Would some of you guys mind looking at my log and telling me where I can improve? I have set goals that I want to achieve, and I don’t know where to go from here. I know that everyone hits a plateau at some point in time or another, but I am starting to get frustrated to the point where I lose my focus mid way through the workout.

My mind just blanks and I lose track of what I’m doing. I am afraid to change things, and have just been continually adding volume (More is better right?) but my lifts have been getting longer, and longer, and beating me up more, and more. I am a huge fan of 5/3/1, and would like to continue to run that in some way. I don’t use any gear (belt/wraps/chalk/etc).

Goals
Press - 185 and 10 @ 135
Bench - 315 and 10 @ 225
Squat - 400 and 10 @ 315
Deadlift - 495 and 10 @ 365
Kroc Row - 110 for 25 reps
Pull ups - 15+ with strict form

All a a body weight of at or below 200 lbs.

Here’s my log (current lifts are here):

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/triviums_quest_to_435_part_2?id=5591385&pageNo=1

I’ve been lifting as consistently as I can for just over a year. I would really like to cut my workouts down to around an hour, and still get stronger. I know some of you guys are strong as hell, and advice or experience that you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

2

I took a quick look at your log, nothing in depth. You have some great goals set, and you are already pretty strong so I’m sure you will get them. To me, it just looks like you are doing a fuckload of volume, and if you are feeling beat up maybe you need to taper off a bit. I noticed you mentioned an exam, so i’m guessing you are college aged? that could also be a contributor, because I know that personally my workouts get shitty this time of year. For the past week and all of next week I know that even if I sleep and eat right, the stress of exams and the sitting around and studying is going to fuck up my recovery and make my workouts worse. So keep that in mind

One question I have for you is how you determine what you are going to do on a given day? I ask because what you said is valid - lots of volume CAN be great, for building muscle, for getting better at the movements, even for building raw strength. But it is REALLY hard to keep that sort of volume up without starting to feel really bad after a while. When I glanced at your log, I didn’t see any sort of obvious progression/taper. It looked to me like you just went heavy at the start, then did a ton of backoff sets/volume on accessory movements. Perhaps I am wrong, but it looks to me like you aren’t really manipulating volume in your program, you are just doing a lot of it.

Basically, what i think you might need is to look at your training in bigger chunks and manipulate the volume. So for a very basic example: say you break your training down into 8 week cycles. Instead of just ALWAYS doing a ton of volume on, say, squats, you taper over the course of 8 weeks. So you go heavy at the start, then do this for backoff sets:

week 1: 185 x 3 x 12
2: 205 x 3 x 12
3: 225 x 3 x 10
4: 245 x 3 x 10
5: 265 x 3 x 8
6: 285 x 3 x 6
7: 305 x 3 x 4
8: 315 x 3 x 2
Deload everything

That way, when you are fresh you use a ton of backoff volume to build muscle, proficiency at the movement, and a base of size/strength. You keep that up and push your limits for the first 4-5 weeks, but then you taper off, so as your body gets beat up and your recovery isn’t as good, you stop doing SO much, and instead focus on perfect form with heavier weights, hone the base that you built with the extra volume. Then, instead of your workouts getting worse and worse, you walk the line of overtraining delicately, hopefully hitting every set and rep you programmed with great form. Then you take a little time off, let your body recover, and start building up a base again from the bottom. You can do this with pretty much all your acessory stuff. And personally, I find it works really well with 5/3/1. just do 9 weeks cycles: 5, 3, 1, 5, 3, 1, 5, 3, 1, deload. Heavier sets get heavier, acessory volume decreases, so at the end of the 9 weeks you are at pretty low volume, but really high intensities. Then you drop everything back and start anew.

Anyways, as I said I didn;t thoroughly study your log, but it looks to me like you are pretty much just programming from day to day, with “volume” as a driving force behind each workout, but without really looking at the bigger picture and MANIPULATING the volume to your advantage. Volume is great, but only if you program smart. Otherwise, you’re just going to be run down and sad. Hope that’s kind of helpful. Keep at it buddy

3

I’m going to follow up N.K.'s great post with something simple that jumped out at me.

Stop missing lifts.

On top of all that volume and the stresses of school and a sub-par diet and lack of sleep, you will not recover going to failure as often as you do. And you are reinforcing poor technique.

You need to find balance between volume and intensity, and that will help you get in solid sessions in whatever time frame you choose.

4

Trivium,

I browsed all of your logs and this jumped out at me right away, i think you are overtraining. In a span of 5 days you benched twice,squated 4 times and deadlifted 4 times. It is very hard not to get caught up in the volume game. If i were you i would continue to run 5/3/1 but i focus on the main lifts and run the I ain’t doing shit templete. If you can make a month with just the basc lifts you will have had conditioned yourself to only input in the nessary lifts and you will have a better appesiation for the Bench,Dl,Squat and Press. Lastly what are your goals?

5

Mahwah hits it in the head imo. Missing lifts doesnt do much for ya but drain your CNS. Ive never seen the strongest guys i know miss many lifts if at all. Also as he says with your other stressors and lack of sleep etc, you maybe arent so much overtraining as you are under-recovering, if that makes sense. Ultimately they are pretty much the same thing.

Far as your programming, maybe its time to try another approach, plenty of which are outlined somewhere on these forums and elsewhere, but i dont think its your problem.

6

Hey guys, I like what I am reading here, but I dont have time to respond at this very moment in time. I have to go somewhere in about 20 minutes, and I want to give all of your responses good answers.

7

[quote]N.K. wrote:
I took a quick look at your log, nothing in depth. You have some great goals set, and you are already pretty strong so I’m sure you will get them. To me, it just looks like you are doing a fuckload of volume, and if you are feeling beat up maybe you need to taper off a bit. I noticed you mentioned an exam, so i’m guessing you are college aged? that could also be a contributor, because I know that personally my workouts get shitty this time of year. For the past week and all of next week I know that even if I sleep and eat right, the stress of exams and the sitting around and studying is going to fuck up my recovery and make my workouts worse. So keep that in mind

One question I have for you is how you determine what you are going to do on a given day? I ask because what you said is valid - lots of volume CAN be great, for building muscle, for getting better at the movements, even for building raw strength. But it is REALLY hard to keep that sort of volume up without starting to feel really bad after a while. When I glanced at your log, I didn’t see any sort of obvious progression/taper. It looked to me like you just went heavy at the start, then did a ton of backoff sets/volume on accessory movements. Perhaps I am wrong, but it looks to me like you aren’t really manipulating volume in your program, you are just doing a lot of it.

Basically, what i think you might need is to look at your training in bigger chunks and manipulate the volume. So for a very basic example: say you break your training down into 8 week cycles. Instead of just ALWAYS doing a ton of volume on, say, squats, you taper over the course of 8 weeks. So you go heavy at the start, then do this for backoff sets:

week 1: 185 x 3 x 12
2: 205 x 3 x 12
3: 225 x 3 x 10
4: 245 x 3 x 10
5: 265 x 3 x 8
6: 285 x 3 x 6
7: 305 x 3 x 4
8: 315 x 3 x 2
Deload everything

That way, when you are fresh you use a ton of backoff volume to build muscle, proficiency at the movement, and a base of size/strength. You keep that up and push your limits for the first 4-5 weeks, but then you taper off, so as your body gets beat up and your recovery isn’t as good, you stop doing SO much, and instead focus on perfect form with heavier weights, hone the base that you built with the extra volume. Then, instead of your workouts getting worse and worse, you walk the line of overtraining delicately, hopefully hitting every set and rep you programmed with great form. Then you take a little time off, let your body recover, and start building up a base again from the bottom. You can do this with pretty much all your acessory stuff. And personally, I find it works really well with 5/3/1. just do 9 weeks cycles: 5, 3, 1, 5, 3, 1, 5, 3, 1, deload. Heavier sets get heavier, acessory volume decreases, so at the end of the 9 weeks you are at pretty low volume, but really high intensities. Then you drop everything back and start anew.

Anyways, as I said I didn’t thoroughly study your log, but it looks to me like you are pretty much just programming from day to day, with “volume” as a driving force behind each workout, but without really looking at the bigger picture and MANIPULATING the volume to your advantage. Volume is great, but only if you program smart. Otherwise, you’re just going to be run down and sad. Hope that’s kind of helpful. Keep at it buddy
[/quote]

I do follow a set routine. The things that are set are the lifts, not the volumes. I try to train every muscle group. I pick the volume based on last week, and trying to do more than last week. For my 5/3/1 sets I try to either break rep records at the aforementioned lifts, or continue with my percentages from the last cycle where I increased them. I am afraid to cut the volume because I have fallen in love with my size. Ive never been this big. That’s not to say that I am a very big guy, I just don’t want to lose what I have.

Heres another one of my logs.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/trivium#myForums/thread/5494253/

I am also not sure how to taper my lifts like that. I am still in noob territory.

8

[quote]mahwah wrote:
I’m going to follow up N.K.'s great post with something simple that jumped out at me.

Stop missing lifts.

On top of all that volume and the stresses of school and a sub-par diet and lack of sleep, you will not recover going to failure as often as you do. And you are reinforcing poor technique.

You need to find balance between volume and intensity, and that will help you get in solid sessions in whatever time frame you choose.[/quote]

If I am trying my hardest to improve every week, I don’t see how I am not going to miss reps. Especially when I am trying to set rep records.

9

[quote]MarneSoldier wrote:
Trivium,

I browsed all of your logs and this jumped out at me right away, i think you are overtraining. In a span of 5 days you benched twice,squated 4 times and deadlifted 4 times. It is very hard not to get caught up in the volume game. If i were you i would continue to run 5/3/1 but i focus on the main lifts and run the I ain’t doing shit templete. If you can make a month with just the basc lifts you will have had conditioned yourself to only input in the nessary lifts and you will have a better appesiation for the Bench,Dl,Squat and Press. Lastly what are your goals?[/quote]

I cant do the “I’m not doing jack shit” template. Again, I don’t want to lose a lot of the size I have built. I cant lie to you guys and say that lean mass is worthless to me.

My goals are…
Press - 185 and 10 @ 135
Bench - 315 and 10 @ 225
Squat - 400 and 10 @ 315
Deadlift - 495 and 10 @ 365
Kroc Row - 110 for 25 reps
Pull ups - 15+ with strict form

Current all time bests…
Press - 155x4
Bench - 280 and 225x9 (barely missed 300)
Squat - 315 x 7 (I am nowhere near this right now.)
Deadlift - 405x3 and 325x14 (I got 455 above my knees the day before yesterday.)
Kroc Row - 100x20 110x15 (I do believe that I could have gotten 110x20 at one point in time.)
Pull ups - 9 with good form at the start and a little kick at the end. Always to a dead hang.

10

[quote]trivium wrote:
Hey guys. I am struggling with a few things right now. Would some of you guys mind looking at my log and telling me where I can improve? I have set goals that I want to achieve, and I don’t know where to go from here. I know that everyone hits a plateau at some point in time or another, but I am starting to get frustrated to the point where I lose my focus mid way through the workout.

…

I would really like to cut my workouts down to around an hour, and still get stronger. I know some of you guys are strong as hell, and advice or experience that you can offer will be greatly appreciated. [/quote]

Your questions were answered, but not what you wanted to hear apparently.

There’s really not a whole lot more to say than what has already been said. You gotta find balance. You want high volume, temper your intensity. You want to lift big weights, you better moderate your volume. Plain and simple.

How long do you think you can keep hitting heavier weights, for more reps, for more sets? You can’t just keep piling more on and expect to not hit a wall, hard.

And I’m not even gonna go back and harp on your shitty diet and sleep schedule.

11

I agree with mahwah. You are falling into a trap my friend. I describe it like this:

The VAST majority of people are lazy and do NOT want to work hard. Their problem is that they need to just push themselves to do MORE and work HARDER.

But there is a point you reach, when you love lifting, where your problem becomes the opposite. You think EVERYTHING should be fixed with hard work. “Huh, my squats last week felt a lot better than they did this week. I’ll just add in another 5 sets at the end of my workout.” The problem is, hard work (aka all the added volume you are doing, failed reps, backoff sets, etc) isn’t the only part of the equation.

You have fallen into a trap where, even though you are hurting mentally and physically to the point that you are asking us for help, even WE can’t convince you that more does not always equal better. The way to progress is not to always be adding more volume, nor to always be pushing yourself to failure. What you are doing will only work for someone who is a true noob, which you obviously are not, and even a true noob is going to hit a nasty wall at some point.

Now is the time in your lifting career when you need to understand the importance of 1) moderation and 2) programming. Go forth and read as many articles as you can by all the lifters you most respect. Read about programs that you don;t ever intend to follow, just to gain an understanding of what makes a good program, the way programs are structured, etc etc. You know how to work hard, now you need to learn how to work smart. If you can find a balance, you will not be stuck at this plateau, and you will get bigger and stronger (yes, even if you reduce volume).

12

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]mahwah wrote:
I’m going to follow up N.K.'s great post with something simple that jumped out at me.

Stop missing lifts.

On top of all that volume and the stresses of school and a sub-par diet and lack of sleep, you will not recover going to failure as often as you do. And you are reinforcing poor technique.

You need to find balance between volume and intensity, and that will help you get in solid sessions in whatever time frame you choose.[/quote]

If I am trying my hardest to improve every week, I don’t see how I am not going to miss reps. Especially when I am trying to set rep records.[/quote]

The trick really is to know when you are unable to push yourself further. At some point in your lifting career, it becomes impossible to break PR’s with every session.

When that happens, take a step back in order to work yourself into being able to take two steps forward. That requires some restitution, either in the form of enough restitution from session to session, or with planned deload periods.

13

Alright boys, so where to from here?

Here is my current split:
Press (5/3/1 sets) (paused reps)
Bench (5x10)
Pullup (Increasing #'s)
Curls (3x10)
Face Pull (3x10)

Squat (5/3/1 sets)
Deadlift (5x10)

Bench (5/3/1 sets) (paused reps)
Press (5x10)
Kroc Row (Increasing sets of 10)
Chest supported row (3x10) (or other misc back movement)
Skull Crusher (3x10)
Trap work (Until I feel good about my work)

Deadlift (5/3/1 sets)
Squat (5x10)

What weights should I start at? (Remember, I would like to run the 5/3/1)

Tell me what to do, and I will give it a shot. I’m not too proud. Ive made all my progress based on what people have told me on this site. I have been on here in various forms since 2006 when I was 148, and have only put in consistent work for the last year. (160 untrained to now.) I have no reason to believe I am being misled or that following advice from somewhere I got good advice before is going to yield anything but results.

On a side note, I cant bring myself to do “I’m not doing jack shit” unless Mr. Wendler himself told me to do it for a good reason. I just cant at this moment in time haha.

14

[quote]trivium wrote:

What weights should I start at? (Remember, I would like to run the 5/3/1)

[/quote]

The weights as written by Wendler. Take your actual recently tested 1RM, take 90% of that and it’s your training weight you base all your calculations off. Follow the program as written, adding 5lbs a cycle for BP/Military, 10lbs a cycle for squat/deadlift.

15

You need to get some abs/core in there on deadlift and squat days, too. Hanging leg raises, fall outs, standing sit ups, front squat holds etc., stuff that is going to help your DL and squat.

Maybe consider swapping out the squats and DLs as assistance exercises with something else that will work mostly the same muscles? RDLs/Good mornings/GHR in place of the deadlift, maybe some leg presses, reverse barbell lunges or bulgarian split squats in place of the squats. Can do the squats and deadlifts as assistance exercises for one four week cycle, then use one or more of the replacements for the next four week cycle.

16

You need to get some abs/core in there on deadlift and squat days, too. Hanging leg raises, fall outs, standing sit ups, front squat holds etc., stuff that is going to help your DL and squat.

Maybe consider swapping out the squats and DLs as assistance exercises with something else that will work mostly the same muscles? RDLs/Good mornings/GHR in place of the deadlift, maybe some leg presses, reverse barbell lunges or bulgarian split squats in place of the squats. Can do the squats and deadlifts as assistance exercises for one four week cycle, then use one or more of the replacements for the next four week cycle.

17

I am pretty much incapable of a short answer to anything. That being said, here is my incredibly long-winded response about what I would do if I were you. I’m not, so take the advice with a grain of salt. But this is what I would do.

  1. Re-set all your 5/3/1. take your heaviest recent 1rm, take 90% of that, and base all of your percentages off of that. That will give you room to grow. Furthermore, I would suggest you do NOT push to failure on the “rep out” set. Rather, push past the RX’d reps, but leave a rep or two in the tank always.

  2. For your upper body days, you do SO many assistance exercises. I would suggest that you maybe cut one or two of them, or just superset the assistance work so you can get it all done in way less time, and without being too focused on any one movement. Basically, you shouldn’t be doing progressive overload with a lot of movements you do - curls, face pulls, skullcrushers, trap stuff, even kroc rows - a lot of these assistance movement you shouldn’t be constantly adding weight. Rather, you should be doing them to keep you healthy, get a pump, balance out the pressing work, etc etc. I’m not saying you can’t go heavy with them or increase weight, but it shouldn’t be from week to week. That’s just going to beat you up and make you feel like shit.

  3. I would get rid of the 5 x 10 deadlift and do speed deadlifts instead. that kind of deadlift volume is tough once youre not a beginner. With speed deads, you can use far less weight, do far less volume, and I think they are better for developing 1rm power and improving technique.

  4. I like the volume (5 x 10) squats, but I would taper it. For example, week 1 you might do 5 x 10 squat @ 50 %. Then week 2, 4 x 8 squat @ 60 %. Then week 3 3 x 6 squat @ 70 %, then deload, re-do the percents, and continue. Volume for squats has served me well, but 5 x 10 is a LOT, and constantly trying to push that heavier is going to beat you into the ground. If you wave the volume from week to week, you can move from lighter to heavier over the course of each cycle so you don;t get bored, don’t get as beat up, and get a good mixture of volume/hypertrophy work and intensity/strength work.

  5. With those changes to lower body days in mind, I would add front squats after the speed deads, and a deadlift variation (either RDL’s or Snatch grip deads or straight leg deads or sumo deads or whatever) after the squats on deadlift day. Front squats, Keep the reps lower, maybe work up to a moderately heavy 5, 3, and 1 on 5, 3, and 1 week. This will keep your quads strong, help your core and back, and help your squat grow faster. For the deadlift variation, keep the weight moderate and do more reps. This will help grow your poterior chain, and make up for all the deadlift volume I took out with the speed deads, without hurting your deadlift technique or beating you up as bad. Something like a 5 x 5 or 3 x 8 with limited rest.

That’s what I would do. I’m not an expert, and we are differrent lifters so obviously my programming might not be perfect for you. But I think those changes will help fix a lot of the problems you are having, and help you move forward as a lifter. Keep at it buddy.

18

I have decided to not change many of the exercises in my program just yet. I am going to try to run it with some of the other suggestions for a few months before I tinker with it. I’m going to try to change the way I look at the individual sets before I change the actual sets themselves. Also, in the three months, I will be able to cook for myself again, and sleep more regularly as the more difficult portion of college is coming to an end.

Here is my new training manifesto. I will not fail reps unless that is the intent of the program at that point in time (which it currently isn’t and probably wont be for a while). No more than 10 reps on 5/3/1 sets. I WILL NOT PRIORITIZE ASSISTANCE. I will do no more than 50 reps and no less than 30 on assistance. Each assistance exercise will get 15 minutes to get all 30-50 reps, and no more. For the big lift assistance exercises (Squat/Bench/Deads/Press) I will not exceed 70% of my training max. I will add 5 lbs to upper body lifts, and 10 lbs to lower body lifts monthly. Deloads will be optional and probably wont happen due to how often I have to skip a day here and there due to school and life.

Press (5/3/1 sets) (paused reps)
Pullup (Increasing #'s)
Bench (5x10)
Face Pull (3x10)
Rear Laterals (3x10)
Curls (3x10)

Squat (5/3/1 sets)
Deadlift (5x10)

Bench (5/3/1 sets) (paused reps)
Kroc Row (50 reps)
Press (5x10)
Chest supported row (3x10) (or other misc back movement)
Skull Crusher (3x10)
Smith Shrug (3x10)

Deadlift (5/3/1 sets)
Squat (5x10)

19

[quote]trivium wrote:
Also, in the three months, I will be able to cook for myself again, and sleep more regularly as the more difficult portion of college is coming to an end.

[/quote]

Always amazed when people talk about how difficult college is or how it cuts into their ability to work out effectively. It’s the easiest and best four years of your life, unless you end up being funemployed after graduation.

20

[quote]Rock978 wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:
Also, in the three months, I will be able to cook for myself again, and sleep more regularly as the more difficult portion of college is coming to an end.

[/quote]

Always amazed when people talk about how difficult college is or how it cuts into their ability to work out effectively. It’s the easiest and best four years of your life, unless you end up being funemployed after graduation.[/quote]

I guess I can give a bit of an explanation. I don’t mean to sound like a douche. I am accelerated masters for physician assistant at a tier 1 university. Last semester for instance I took 18 600 level science credits with 2 labs that took an additional 4 hours a week (which don’t count toward credits). I study probably 40-50 hours a week on top of that. Then you figure I have competencies, clinicals to attend, and homework. My program forces you to complete the last 3 years of the degree in 2. I didn’t start training until it got busy, so I haven’t been the picture perfect example of consistency. Plus I don’t have time to do my roommates dishes so I can have things to cook with (the 3 of them aren’t the cleanest people).

In a nutshell, my life has been a complete mess for the last 2 years, and I am finally starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel haha.

Soon, when I am done with making up my finals in the middle of my summer semester (got real sick a couple weeks ago and had to take the week of finals off), and I move to a new apartment by myself, I should have time to go shopping and cook again, like I did my junior year. It is all temporary and coming to an end, and I will finally be able to have a real diet/lifting schedule again.

It should also be noted that I shoot around a 3.8 gpa since the start of the professional phase of my program, so I’m not your average. (Started with 55 kids, lost 20, gained 10 transfers)