Help the fat guy please.

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Looking for help on diet, supps , and workouts.
I have started to work out again, and need help.
I have been keeping a food log on fitday since the past week.
My stats are
age:31
weight: 305 lbs
Have been working out 3 to 5 days a week since Jan 1,
I usually do a 5 minute warmup
1 hr of lifting 3 sets 15 reps of
leg press/or squat machine
Bench press
machine row
overhead press machine
dumbell curls
cable pressdown
seated calf raise
ab machine
incline situps
sometimes also do incline and decline presses

I follow up with 20-30 minutes on an elliptical trainer random hill mode.

I am very dedicated. I started last year on the t-dawg 2.0 and lost 30lbs, but broke my arm in may, and started eating like a pig and gave up on working out and gained it back, therefore here I am to get it done this time.
For supplements I have a good Multi-vit, omega 369 caps, and Hot rox. On supplement wise, would a using a test supp help me lose faster and put on mass, or should I wait until I lose more fat.

2

I would suggest searhing T-Mag for EDT relalted articles by Charles Staley for a workout.

3

I suggest you dump your current routine, and pick one of the ones outlined by Chris Shugart in the following articles:

One problem with what you’re doing currently is that the 15 rep scheme is not the best way to retain LBM while dieting. Lower rep, higher weight routines work much better.

To solve the other problem I see dump exercises like the seated calf raise, db curls and push downs. Instead center your routine on the squat, deadlift and bench press. The other exercises have their place, but you don’t need them at this time.

One more thing, if you can separate the weight training and the elliptical cardio by about 8 hours do so.

4

I just re-read the much better part of my post. Usually my grammar is more gooder then that. :wink:

5

Fish,

As far as suggestions I would have to go with the others and say pick a good program that is based on compond movements that are going to give you more bang for you training buck. You might check out ABBH, a good mix of low rep/high rep work that a good # of people have had results from while cutting and bulking.

Also, as stated seperate your cardio and weight sessions if you can, and up the time of the session a bit. Around 45min @ 65-75%. Or/and throw in some HIIT. It would be a great help to check oput the cardio roundtable.

As far as your diet. (this is where you can expect 90% of your progress to come from) Go for the Tdawg again. It is a very effective diet. Remember to get in your fats in the right ratios, and your protein from varied/mainly real food sources.

If you want me, or any of the others to help you run some ball park #'s for your intake, we will need some more info. BF%, height, etc… As it is though it sounds like you were on a great start with Tdawg on your own. Just keep the motivation up. If you get injured you just have to work around it. Use the time to concentrate on the body parts you can use.

On the supplement issue. They are always an option, sure. Your biggest impact is going to come from you getting a consistant diet first off, and then your training. I would suggest getting both these in line first, and getting as much as you can out of them alone befor turning toward any supp… There is no magic pill and any of them is only going to work better if you have the basics in line first.

Good luck and keep up the work
Phill

6

Figure up your average intake of fat, carbs and protein per day, as well as the overall calories, and post the info here. Then we can make some concrete suggestions.

Not to de-emphasize the working out part, but at your age and weight diet is almost certainly the culprit. (How tall are you?)

And you probably don’t need any supps at this point. Just getting your eating straight will work wonders.

7

You’ll do well to read through the frequently asked questions section. Everyone in the know will just suggest programs you will find in there anyway.

If you really want to lose the fat and start to look good you’ll have to educate yourself. Toiling away in the gym not really knowing what you’re doing will only get you so far.

There’s no point to T-folk re-writing everthing we’ve read when you can just read it for yourself.

I sure hope you stick it out. Nothing worthwhile is easy.

Billy

8

Hey, there, FG. I can see that you’re dedicated and that you’re willing to work for your results! Good deal!

As has been mentioned, there’s a lot to be said for selecting a well designed program (instead of designing your own), one that incorporates some of the exercises you like. A well designed program will save you from yourself, lay a good foundation, prevent injuries, and maximize your progress . Just about any of the get-started programs on T-Mag will work for you. Even then, you need to pick a new program once you’ve completed the one you’re doing currently so that you continue to challenge yourself and provide a stimulus for growth.

One opportunity I see is that I’d like for you to separate your cardio and workout. AM cardio and PM lifting would be ideal. That way you would get two different metabolic kicks in the butt. Also, much beyond one hour of both, and the negatives start to outweigh the positives. Spending more than an houre in the gym is too catabolic.

The Hot Rox is an excellent choice!

Considering the weight you carry, I’d like to see you throw in some glucosamine sulfate into your supplement regimen for joint support. Take it for at least 6 months. If your joints are a bit sore from wear and tear, add in some MSM, too. I buy both in powder form (cheaper) and add it to my water bottle when I work out. The taste of both is pretty bland.

The reason for taking a PH while dieting is that it preserves LBM when calories are cut severely, not what T-Dawg 2.0 is all about. Additionally, T-Dawg 2.0 doesn’t allow you enough carbs to maximize gains. Save the Mag-10 for down the road.

Finally, your fat requirements are going to be pretty high, .4g x LBM. I’d recommend that you look at straight flaxseed oil. It’s quite a bit cheaper, considering how much you need to be getting in. Flaxseed oil is higher in Omega 3s than 6s (exactly what you’re looking for). Combine that with a little olive oil when you cook, and you’d be pretty well set – though (uncooked) nuts and avocados are pretty nice alternatives and will help you meet your (good) fat requirements

Just put some good habits and patterns in place, FG. You’ll get great results if you’re consistent.

If you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

9

Here is my food journal. I am still trying to dial in my diet better.
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=fishgutz

I have no good way of getting a accurate lbm %. The gym I go to is nice, but the personel is very uneducated.
I did the math with the Hot Rox transformation plan, came up with 3500 calories per day, I have been getting about 2500 to 2800.
I will try to put a picture up tonight.
I was more thinking about a tribex or red Kat, if it would help.
I do not take in any empty calories with drinks, I only drink water, with maybe one soda a month.
Height is 5’7".
I can do Hiit swimming for cardio if you think it is better. I do not have any joint problems.The Omega 369 that I take has 1200mg of each flax,fish, and borage oil per 3 capsules, do I still need to add more flax to my diet.
I know that the Nitro-Tech is not good, but was going to use it up and then go with low-carb grow.

10

I have read the info on here, At this stage just didn’t know which would personally work for me best. I would hire a personal trainer, but I live in a small town and the only gym/heathclub that has hours that will fit my work schedule does not have anyone qualified. Just asking for a point in the right direction.

11

Before you start calculating food intake and such, I suggest you take a look at an old post. Search the forums for “obese math” and look at “Morbidly Obese? Do the Math (JB’s math that is)”

Be wary. The typical calculations you’ll find just don’t look right for fat guys. Nobody has come up with a good explanation yet. Not even Berardi.

12

Take a look at Chris Shugart’s articles (see my post above for the links); MichG’s suggestion of EDT is a good one.

The personal trainers at most gyms are a waste of money. Read the training articles, if you need something explained post a question.

At your current BW and height most expensive supplements can be avoided. I would stick to protein powder, carbohydrate powder, and multivitamins for now. Once you get in the 200-220 lb range add something like Hot-Roxx. The important thing is to realize that you can loose weight on your own, and not be dependent on supplementation.

The main thing is to keep things simple. Too many people blow their diets by complicating things to the point that it becomes a hassle. Start with something like, ?If it comes in a box don?t eat it.? Once you have that concept ingrained refine the diet some more.

13

Okay,

Going to try this again.

  1. Stick to the barbell basics. To paraphrase Shugs: “Deadlift, Squat, Bench Press, Row, Military Press, Chin. The rest is secondary.”

  2. High intensity (% of 1RM) with low reps and medium to high volume (total sets) rules. ABBH/OVT are both examples of this sort of thinking. 5x5 might be a good starting point. Remember to cycle your training. (Hit a new PR, cycle back)

  3. As you lose weight, switch to more weight-bearing exercise like running/walking. You can start by parking your car farther away, taking the stairs, etc. Those little chunks every day turn into some big hunks later on.

  4. Get in the right habits: don’t fight this war with willpower. You will lose. Fight with HABIT. Start with one habit at a time. Congratulate yourself for stuff that you’re already doing right, then add one more thing that you can do right at a time. Pretty soon, you’ll have all the right habits.

  5. Keep up your workout/diet log. It will keep you honest.

  6. Keep reading and learning.

  7. Kill your TV. Limit your Internet.

This is most of what I had to say, but compressed to about 1/2 its original size. The .zip file of posts.

Dan “Information is my Anti-Fat” McVicker

14

My advice would be to take it slow. Kind of ease your way into it. So many newbies just cannonball right into programs and diets with their expectations too high and then crash and burn. Dan “man of many middle names” McVicker is right on about habits vs willpower. Take your time, make changes to your diet and training that you can handle. Do not expect to be shredded/huge in 6 simple weeks. Results are the driving factor. As you see changes in the mirror, subsequent changes to your diet and workouts become easier to make because you know it is working. Best of wishes man.

15

Figure up your average intake of fat, carbs and protein per day, as well as the overall calories, and post the info here.

Sorry, but I’m not going to go and review your entire Fitday log to find this information. If you post it here, I’ll try to help. If not, then you’re on your own.

It does seem strange to me how almost everyone here is concentrating on your workout, though. Diet should be dialled in (or at least reasonably under control) first for someone with your stats.

16

Sorry, I thought that you might need to see actally eaten.
the Average for the week is as follows

Total Calories 2590
Fat 124 gm 1113 cal 45%
sat 38 gm 14%
poly 10 gm 4%
mono 27 gm 10%

Carbs 167 558 cal 22%
includes surge on some w/o days
Fiber 28g
Protein 204g 816cal 33%

Fat #'s also include my omega 369 supps

I want to focus on diet and have it dialed in be Feb 1, and start a new workout routine at same time.
Thanks for all the input so far.

17

To be straight forward for lack of time right now. I would say drop some of the carbs and add them to your protein intake. Also, try and equal out your fat intake between sat, mono, and polys. Flax oil is your friend. It might be helpfull if you read the “Fats Roundtable,” each kind of fat has it’s place and importance.

Fat Roundtable

Fat Roundtable II

All the roundtable articles are good reads by the way, cardio, carb., etc… Do a search on the Tmag.

By the way go over, Dan “Great F^&king Post” McVickers’, post. That post should be printed out and posted all around you. Solid advice.

Check out the above link to JB’s 7 Basics article. Great place to start with your diet. As stated by previus posters this is where the majority of your progress is going to come from right now. If you can nail the basics laid out in this article you are well on your way.

Hope that helps,
Phill

18

Read this:

It’s similar to Charles Poliquin’s German Body Comp.

Also, don’t think of youself as a “Fat Guy” anymore. Visualize how you want to be, focus on the end goal, and make it happen.

19

i am getting a-lot of good info that i did’t i didn’t think about by myself, THANKS!
I really don’t think as myself as the fat guy. I am ok with my weight, I am the one that put myself here, but I want to change it know. My eating habits have been my problem. I use to only eat maybe once to twice a day, drink over a dozen cans of soda a day, and if I did eat lunch it would be about 3 to 4 in the day. I usually leave the house for work at 9am and don’t return until 8pm.

What do you guys recommend as total fat intake for me, and should I spread it out evenly between the 3 types evenly. I Know I need to get protein up, how high you you suggest? What total calories should I shoot for. The reason I ask is that I did not know if I should just do the regular formula’s because I am so overweight.
Thanks again
Brian

20

Fish,

I would have to say at your height and weight that you could go on a fairly extreme hypocaloric diet for a bit without the worry of losing to much LBM. Your body will take the excess that it need from the storage that you have built up. The continued use of Hot Rox will also help with the preservation of LBM.

It is tough to give you an estimate without a estimate of how much LBM that you have, but I can give you a suggestion that you can give a try. You will want to watch how you feel and how your training is effected by the diet though. This would be a fairly extreme calorie deficite and would be totally geared toward fat loss. I would say you could safely go on a diet of say 2200 kcals, with a macro breakdown of 255g protein, 100g fat, 70g carbs. This would be on non weight training days. On training days up the carbs to 100g with most taken in PWO and lower the fats to make the difference in kcals. Like I said this would most likely have you losing BF% pretty quickly depending on the amount of LBM that you have so you are going to want to keep a close eye on things.

Your other option is to go for a flat out Tdawg type of diet. Concentrate not so much on losing BF% but more of a total transformation. With gaining LBM while losing BF%. This can be a very good route and one I would actually suggest. The more LBM you add the more calories you are going to burn and the better you will feel and the fat you are carrying will even begin to shift and look better.

As far as your fat intake, yes try and get it to as close to an equal amount of poly, mono, sat. throughout the day. It is going to vary some. Today you might have a few more grams sat and lower poly, but then tomarrow it might be just the opposite. Just try and keep it in that ball park.

I am sure TT can help greatly here also and will probably stop by shortly.

Hope that helps some
Phill

Or you could go the route of