I believe I posted one of these threads on here about a year ago, but seeing as I don’t have a training partner, I always appreciate and benefit from the technique advice that you knowledgeable folks here offer me.
I’m currently trying to iron out some form issues with my conventional deadlift. It seems as though my set-up is somewhat off, since (as you’ll see in the video) the first rep of my multi-rep sets seem to look out of whack.
I’ve included a video of two sets from different angles: a five-repper at 175 kg and a single at 190 kg. Both are about at an 8-9 RPE. And yes, I was having fun with my video editing software there.
Any advice that you might have would be greatly appreciated. Here are my initial thoughts: I need to work on the speed of my hip drive. I can pretty much always lock out anything I can get off the floor, but I always decelerate at the knee. I might also need to figure out something for my lower back, since there’s some rounding going on there. No pain or discomfort, but it seems apparent.
Infinite_shore, yeah, I took some time last year to adjust my set-up and focus on pulling the slack out of the bar and “into my hamstrings”, so to say. It’s not very visible in this video, though, so maybe I need to work on that again. I know I used to set up in more of a squat, which worked against my leverages.
Looks like a stiff leg dl. The advice I would give you, and its something I use as a cue, get behind the bar. Your shoulders and head are way out in front of the bar. Try to sit back and drive your legs into the floor. Not so much that you squat the weight, but get your quads into it. Pretty good form though, hope this helps.
Thanks for your feedback! Just an extra comment: the side angle of the first five-rep set is set-up somewhat in front of the bar plane and makes it seem as though I’m also bit out front. I think the 3/4 angle in the second video gives you a more accurate impression.
I’ll try to work on sitting and pulling back a little bit more, though, it’s definitely a cue that I can benefit from. However, I never really too got much out of the “drive through the floor” cue, but rather from the “be a human crane” cue. Could be because of my weak-ass quads.
The strongest deadlifters in the world deadlift with high hips.
Even if they set up with low hips, they will shoot up before the weight leaves the floor. The best example is ronnie coleman> Take a look of any of his deadlift videos.
Never underestimate the posterior chain.
On another note, I decided to pull sumo again today after my regular squat training and hit a 10 kg PR for that lift of 210 kg. It’s now on par with my best conventional deadlift, and I didn’t even plan it.
I’m beginning to think I’m more of a sumo lifter, even though my leverages suck for squatting.
Pulling with high hips is great if you’re built for it, i.e. you can practically scratch your kneecaps without bending over. Its difficult to tell from the videos, but your arms don’t appear to be disproportionally long. It seems more likely that your setting up with a completely vertical shin and practically-stiff-legs came about to work around your deficiencies, most notably weak quads.
For the long haul, you may have more success pulling with lower hips and a more neutral spine, even if it means you take a step back in the short term. Whatever you do, don’t arbitrarily look at all the best deadlifters in the world and say, “Yup, high hips, I’m good to go.” The best conventional deadlifters in the world are, not coincidentally, really well built for deadlifting, so their mechanics won’t necessarily match up with yours.
There is also a tendency for many people, to bring the bar to the shin, when it is okay to bring the shins to the bar, no sin. Took me a while to find my sweet spot, but I start with the bar a few inches off of my shin and bend down to it. I use the eyelets on my shoes to line me up. Same shoes since 1990.
I mean, one way to build leg drive is to start using it. It won’t be a weakness anymore if you build it up. Ralph the bodybuilder (whom none of you know) used a lot of leg drive in his deadlift. He said that he got his lower quad separation from conventional deads. Like most real cool guys, he would not be caught dead doing leg extensions, he did deadlifts.
Take a few workouts and start with the bar out a bit, make neutral your spine, drop 'til the shins hit and pull. You may want to try this at first as singles because I bet you will tend to put the bar back on the floor at the position you pull from now, so singles are probably a good start.
Drop the weight back to maybe 70% and give it a try, maybe a dozen hard singles.
As you build an ability to launch with leg drive, you can play with moving the bar out. When you cannot keep a neutral spine anymore, you are out too far.
[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:
I agree with emskee.[/quote]
About the socks, right?
Good article, I’ve see it before.
The 1" spec is a generalization. Find where it actually happens over your foot. I have a twist to my spine (lumbar disease) and the bar does not go over the same spot on each foot. Special case, to be sure, but some people need 1" out, some 2", some something else.
I also agree (and posted this somewhere else…) that the weight should not be on the toes nor the heel, but in fact somewhere between. I have two entire feet and I’m going to use them. My calves and quads are pretty helpful during my deadlift. Might be for others also.
Great, thanks for your advice, everyone! Will definitely try to focus a bit more on leg drive in the next little while. I think TB284 is right, I’ve been trying to work around my weakness for too long and rely on my supposed leverages, but I now notice that this isn’t translating into any progress.
I’ll also try to adjust the bar placement a bit ? thanks for the tips, emskee! Will give that a go on Tuesday.
Ah, and thanks for your socks compliment! I really like my deadlift socks and would wear them all the time if I had the choice… But I think my wife would probably no longer want to be seen with me in public.
So, as per your advice I tried today to keep my hips a bit down and focus on leg drive and I filmed the results.
The video below shows 165 kg for a triple and 192.5 kg (training max) for a single. I was feeling pretty shitty this morning and these weights felt much heavier than they should have, but I hope the video is still useful.
My immediate thoughts are that I need to work on my upper back strength again. Seems as though my shoulders cave forward in both sets. I was doing front squat iso holds for a while and might bring them back again, along with a greater emphasis on pull-ups.
Bar came and went from the same spot on the floor, nice. You do not use a belt and so rely on your transverse abdominis muscles for internal pressure, you are a beast. On your first rep of the triple and on your single, you start with hips low, and then bring it up to start the lift, your next 2 reps fro the triple come from that exact hip position.
Maybe find where that is and start your first pull (and of course singles) from there. I lift with my shoulders pre-caved. Keep the arms as long as possible.
Your deads look great to me. Keep doing that and whatever upper back strength you thing you need will follow. But you look plent capable to me.
Hey emskee, thanks for your quick feedback and your kind words! Yeah, I noticed my hips moving up on those initial reps. I think I was consciously trying to keep my hips too low. I’ve got to find that perfect spot and groove it in there. I’ll be training sumo for the next mesocycle and will see where that takes me, but will try to do some speed conventional pulls as an accessory.
Oh, and they’re normal Nike soccer socks. You’re in Ohio? They’re probably available at someplace like Dick’s.
So, instead of starting a new thread, I thought I’d ask you guys for pointers in this older thread that I’d started.
I’ve since switched exclusively to sumo and have in the meantime pulled new PRs - a 229 kg pull that would’ve been redlighted owing to a hitch as well as a clean 224 kg pull.
Here’s a vid of 184 kg for a set of 5. I think I had another one to two reps left in the tank. Would really appreciate any form tips that I could get on this one, since I’m still relatively shaky with my sumo form. Here are my own thoughts:
I need to pull my triceps into my lats a bit more, which might help me get more behind the bar and to pull back.
I need to try to sit down more and to get the hips to the bar. This is currently a weaker position for me but will probably benefit me in the long run.
I need to focus on packing my chin (I do this on most sets, but, as you can see here, not on every set…)
