I’m waiting for someone to type something that has NOT already been told to this guy.
[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
redsox348984 wrote:
since fat gain has been a problem for you i would try not to mix fats and carbs in the same meal.
good to see you made your own thread
so how would I eat salmon then? salmon has a fair bit of fat - what would I have it with? I normally go with potatoes and veg.
I dont have carbs and fat before bed or pre/post workout (most of the time, though I have stated in my diet example that I did have fat pre workout with carbs - this isnt always the case)
so will keeping fats away from carbs really help?
Ive heard this before but have also read/heard that this is bullshit?
[/quote]
im sure theres many thigns you could have salmon with, i actually tend to have mind with a carb sorce too. im just saying if you havent tryed keeping carbs and fat seperate before, it probly wouldnt hurt to try. maybe it would limit fat gain while trying to gain weight. you wont know if it works or not unless you try it. just a suggestion
[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
BUT I’m not like this all the time, I do go through periods where I just get on with things, periods where I dont think about this as much. Im posting this right in the middle fo a bad patch. I’ll get through this bad patch, then hit the weights with fresh optimism,[/quote] I’ll train for a while, but after a few weeks [quote]when I dont notice things change for the better, I’ll be like this again - give it 3 months or so and I’ll be like this again. surely if Im OK for 3 months or so, I should be able to make SOME gains?
[/quote]
You are clearly not giving it enough time. In your writings you seem to alude to not being consistant. You dont see changes after a few weeks then you “get like this.” Yo Yo’ing like this is not going to produce anything worthwhile. With how you are talking I’m going to have a very hard time believing that you’ve been consistant with your training and diet for more than a few weeks.
the people in this thread have been more helpful than you have in the other thread, that’s for sure.
all youve said is “eat big” “lift hard”
like I havent tried that.
what is your problem?
why do you have such a hard time believing what I say?
Ive never come across anyone like you before, you need to cool the hostility and try and be helpful.
Ive already posted that I usually give a routine 12-16 weeks and even given one as long as 52 weeks - that was the anthony ellis program twice over - 26 weeks each.
I’ve posted all of the above ^^ either in this thread or the other…
[quote]redsox348984 wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
redsox348984 wrote:
since fat gain has been a problem for you i would try not to mix fats and carbs in the same meal.
good to see you made your own thread
so how would I eat salmon then? salmon has a fair bit of fat - what would I have it with? I normally go with potatoes and veg.
I dont have carbs and fat before bed or pre/post workout (most of the time, though I have stated in my diet example that I did have fat pre workout with carbs - this isnt always the case)
so will keeping fats away from carbs really help?
Ive heard this before but have also read/heard that this is bullshit?
im sure theres many thigns you could have salmon with, i actually tend to have mind with a carb sorce too. im just saying if you havent tryed keeping carbs and fat seperate before, it probly wouldnt hurt to try. maybe it would limit fat gain while trying to gain weight. you wont know if it works or not unless you try it. just a suggestion[/quote]
not really tried it, so will try it, Im always open to suggestions that might help.
cheers.
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
BUT I’m not like this all the time, I do go through periods where I just get on with things, periods where I dont think about this as much. Im posting this right in the middle fo a bad patch. I’ll get through this bad patch, then hit the weights with fresh optimism, I’ll train for a while, but after a few weeks when I dont notice things change for the better, I’ll be like this again - give it 3 months or so and I’ll be like this again. surely if Im OK for 3 months or so, I should be able to make SOME gains?
You are clearly not giving it enough time. In your writings you seem to alude to not being consistant. You dont see changes after a few weeks then you “get like this.” Yo Yo’ing like this is not going to produce anything worthwhile. With how you are talking I’m going to have a very hard time believing that you’ve been consistant with your training and diet for more than a few weeks.[/quote]
I think I missed the point in your post.
what gives you the impression Im not consistent? I do get down about it, but that doesnt halt my consistency?
I do march on through the bad patches but consitency stays the same. When I say ‘a few weeks’ it’s normally 12-16 weeks into a routine. are you saying that that isnt long enough to give a routine? if so, I’ll give it longer and see what happens…
constency is as important as diet and good training - I understand that.
[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
the people in this thread have been more helpful than you have in the other thread, that’s for sure.
all youve said is “eat big” “lift hard”
like I havent tried that.
[/quote]
I’m not being a dick, but should it be obvious that if you’re not gaining any weight that you simply arent eating enough?
I mean, I dont care who’s formula you’re using to come up with your “optimal” calorie intake - if you following the recommendations and you arent gaining, then the recommendations are incorrect and you need to eat more.
If you telling me that you’ve eaten 6000 cal/day consistently for months and you havent gained anything, then all that it means is that you should try 7000 +.
Its that simple.
OK, to end all of the speculation post a few pics so everyone can see the non-gains you’ve made. Preferably a minimum of a month apart.
[quote]Marque wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
the people in this thread have been more helpful than you have in the other thread, that’s for sure.
all youve said is “eat big” “lift hard”
like I havent tried that.
I’m not being a dick, but should it be obvious that if you’re not gaining any weight that you simply arent eating enough?
I mean, I dont care who’s formula you’re using to come up with your “optimal” calorie intake - if you following the recommendations and you arent gaining, then the recommendations are incorrect and you need to eat more.
If you telling me that you’ve eaten 6000 cal/day consistently for months and you havent gained anything, then all that it means is that you should try 7000 +.
Its that simple.
[/quote]
alot of this stuff was covered in the other thread, his answer to this was something along the lines of, when he actually put on weight most of it was pretty much fat gain and not muscle
[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
mate, no offence, but have you actually read my post?[/quote]
Yeah, I did. I read everything fully until your meal and workout plans, over which I merely glossed.
What’s your point? You’re over-thinking and you’re not training or eating well enough, with enough dedication. It’s as simple as that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’m waiting for someone to type something that has NOT already been told to this guy.[/quote]
Good work wannabebig, keep it up
wannabeBIG, this is a quote from a post you made earlier in the year. It adds a lot of confusion to everything.
"some good advoce in this thread, listen to what’s been said mate.
you need to make sure you’re gaining muscle and making gains using a good routine, diet and rest.
steroids are no magic pill. if you aren’t gaining well off any supplements/diet/training then you won’t gain anything using steroids either."
If you werent gaining why were you on something? You clearly said if you’re not gaining well off of diet and supplementation you wont gain on gear? But here and the other thread you’ve slearly said you didnt make ANY gains even while on. So why would you take gear if you weren’t making gains to begin with?
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
wannabeBIG, this is a quote from a post you made earlier in the year. It adds a lot of confusion to everything.
"some good advoce in this thread, listen to what’s been said mate.
you need to make sure you’re gaining muscle and making gains using a good routine, diet and rest.
steroids are no magic pill. if you aren’t gaining well off any supplements/diet/training then you won’t gain anything using steroids either."
If you werent gaining why were you on something? You clearly said if you’re not gaining well off of diet and supplementation you wont gain on gear? But here and the other thread you’ve slearly said you didnt make ANY gains even while on. So why would you take gear if you weren’t making gains to begin with?[/quote]
because I suffer from bogorexia and will do anyuthing to gain something.
that’s why. Ive covered this in the other thread.
if you had been training 4 years, and were so desperate to gain muscle and youd already looked into diet and training, then supplements, what would you do? well, if you dont sufer from bigorexia you might choose a different path.
and I’m right in what I said, as Im the proof.
I think I gave good advice there…
LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU:
a lad suffere from bigorexia
he starts training
training doesnt go to well
so he decides to learn, research, do everything possible to put him on the right tracks to gain some decent size.
he puts what he’s learnt into practise, he tries a new routine.
it doesnt work.
he tries a new routine, that doesnt work.
he decides that maybe his diet isnt good enough, so he looks into that, doesnt help.
he sees his brother growing, getting bigger, getting compliments left right and centre, though he doesnt know half the stuff this lad knows.
he carries on training, focusing on compound lifts and eating big, he goes backl to basics, concentrates on form.
he tries different rep ranges, training to failure more/less often. it doesnt work.
he’s tried most supplements there is to try.
what’s left? remeber that he’s desperate to gain size, he wants to be able to go out in public weraing a t-shirt, something he’s not been able to do in 14 years.
after 4 years of training, he dcides to try some gear.
now, having said that, I have obvioulsy made some gains in size and strength - Ive said that already. example - I first started benching 60lbs, I now bench 160lbs - but that is shit. my gains have been shit - that’s what this is all about. I have gained, but the gains are so slow, it takes the piss.
[quote]danmaftei wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
mate, no offence, but have you actually read my post?
Yeah, I did. I read everything fully until your meal and workout plans, over which I merely glossed.
What’s your point? You’re over-thinking and you’re not training or eating well enough, with enough dedication. It’s as simple as that.[/quote]
over thinking - that might be right.
not training or eating with enough dedication? that is so wrong mate.
my life revolves around bodybudiling, I dont think there could be anyone more dedicated than myself - when you’re as desperate as I am then dedication and perfection are the only way to go about getting results, just a pity I dont see much in the way of gains.
the reason why I asked you that question was down to the fact that you had basically told me to do what I had already said I was doing. example - focus on compound lifts and eat big - I already stated I was doing those things.
the diet I posted is what Im eating now - that’s after I had to re-adjust it because I was gaining too much fat (was at 30% bodyfat) - it’s gradually crept upto that after being at 11%.
The other bit if info that I can offer that really helped me is to incorporate more compound movements each session and kick butt on every set but again don’t go to failure.
While I am no expert, here is a routine that has helped me a lot. You have to go up to almost failure but never hit failure on each lift. The other thing about this routine is that if you keep the between set rests around 60 seconds you can get in and out of the gym pretty quickly.
If your back\lower back isn’t ready for all of the DL’ing and Squat sessions (I’ve never used a belt and don’t know if it would help) you might want to decrease the weight to let the lower back adjust to the regular stimulation.
After starting this routine my lower back was pretty sore for the first couple of weeks so I backed off the weight a bit but kept going. Eventually my lower back started getting into the swing of things but be careful, one injury will halt all progress very quickly.
Saturday
DeadLift 10x3
Wide Grip Chin-Up 10x3
High Pulls 10x3
Full Squat 10x3
Sunday
Overhead Squat 3x8
Bent Over Rows 3x8
Tele Press 3x8
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
DB Bent Press 3x8
Facepulls 3x8
Tuesday
Deadlift Snatch Grip 10x3
DB Bench Press 10x3
Side Press 10x3
Hack Squat 10x3
Thursday (explosive lifts - low weight - very quick reps)
Explosive Full Squat 6x3
Explosive Bent Over Rows 6x3
Explosive DB BP 6x3
Explosive Cable Chops 6x3
You MUST add weight as often as possible and really go after each lift. If you are not lifting more weight, with good form, you will not get stronger and will not get bigger. If you go from a 250lb deadlift to a 350lb DL to a 450lb DL you will be stronger and you’ll be bigger. Likewise if you go from a 300lb squat to a 320lb squat you will not be much stronger and not any bigger.
If you want to grow you have to be able to lift more weight this month than you did last month and even more weight next month and next year.
If you are a high energy person - always fidgeting, tappping your toes, etc… you need even more calories and try to get more sleep - IMHO.
Besides the lifting, you can throw in maybe 20 minutes of medium cardio at the end of each session if you have time and need to lose bodyfat.
But be sure to get in a few high intensity sprint\relax type cardio sessions on the off days.
After 4 weeks or so you can pick some other lifts and try doing a different set\rep scheme to keep things fresh maybe, 4x6, 2x24, 3x10. I find that rotating set\reps helps to keep things fresh, fun and keeps the CNS from being ground to pulp after a few months.
Again, I am no expert, I have tried various things after reading the great articles and routines on T-Nation and have kept playing around until I have come up on some routines that fit my body type and that I find fun to do.
I’m not saying that this will be good everyone or even anyone else - just some thoughts that have worked for me.
[quote]allNatural wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I’m waiting for someone to type something that has NOT already been told to this guy.
Good work wannabebig, keep it up[/quote]
lol
wannbeBIG,
I’ve skimmed through your posts on PGA’s thread and here, and I’ve seen you repeating some errors that I did in my training. I’ll try to give you some specific advice, which is largely a rehash of all the things I learned from articles and forum here, but in one place.
THIS WILL BE LONG!
Potential problems:
1) Not enough time per program/rep scheme. It is quite possible that you’re expecting too much in relatively small time frame. You could be progressing, but not really seeing it… and you just move to something different. A solution here would be to set up a scheme where you can add a bit each time, so you know you’re progressing, but at the same time, not that much, so the progress is sustainable for longer.
2) Too high intensity and too low volume. In the end, you have to be pushing bigger weights, that is true. But, it is possible you start too close to your PR levels, and burn out after a few weeks. So you end up using too little volume for the amount of food you’re eating (and you did have glandular issues).
3) Too high volume. At the first glance, this may seem contrary to previous point, but what I’m saying is this: maybe your total work capacity is way lower that you think. Even though your previous programs were oriented around less sets and higher intensity, that still can be too much for you to recover from. I hope this makes sense 
4) Lack of aerobic actitity. Some people seem to gain way less fat if they include some aerobic training. It doesn’t have to be nothing fancy, just 20 mins of light/moderate intensity might make a difference.
5) Eating too much. You work hard and eat hard, but the whole effort is too overwhelming for your body. Maybe you’ll do better with eating less, and if the need be, doing less.
Potential solutions:
I would suggest setting up some kind of a cycle, where, generally speaking, you start with weights you can easily handle for prescribed number of reps. From that point, you increase slowly, adding sets or weight or both. When things get tough, you push hard for a week or two, than lay off. Start the cycle again with a bit more than the previous time.
Rep schemes that lend themselves to this kind of set-up include:
1) 5x5 with same weight. Start with your 10RM, maybe even less, and do 5 work sets with 2-2.5min rest. Add 5lbs to Squats and Deads and just 2.5lbs to Bench, Rows and such. Theoretically, you should end up doing 5x5 with your old 5RM. Pracitally, as the weights increase, you’ll feel fatigue building up. There you can do two things:
a) Stop the cycle when you start missing reps in the 4th and 5th work set. Take a week off, and restart the cycle with 5-10lbs more than in the previous run. I recommend this the first time you try it.
b) Keep increasing the weight every week, and drop sets where you can’t do 5 reps. Eg. you did 100x5x5, tried 105 next time and got 5,5,5,4,3. Next week, you try 110 for 3x5. Cycle ends when you end up with just one work set.
2) 5-10x3 to 5-10x5. This is an approach orthogonal to the above. You start with a weight about 6-8RM. Keep doing sets with a fixed rest, say 1.5 or 2 minutes, until 3 reps become hard, near failure. Whatever number sets you did, you will be doing one set less in the following workouts; so you’ll have an idea of your work capacity. Try adding a rep to the beginning sets every time. When you get 4 reps in all sets, you move to 5. When you get all 5, take a week off and then move the weight up.
3) Ladders . This might prove to be quite beneficial in your situation. The idea of ladders is to maximize volume without buring yourself out. You start with about 8RM and do reps 1/2/3/4/5/1/2/3/4/1/2/3… Rest about 20 sec per rep you did in the previous set, so the rest times would go 20/40/60/80/20/40 etc. Don’t do more than 4 reps in a set and never force or strain in any set. If the going gets tough, terminate the set and start again from one rep. You improve by adding sets, in ladder fashion, for 3-4 weeks, than you bump the weight up and do just one “trip” up the ladder.
Nothing of this is revolutionary and has been mentioned on this site and included in articles many times. Keep in mind what you’re trying to accomplish, pick one approach and stick to it!
cheers billsdad, appreciate your input. I’ll copy that into word and save it.
I think you need to hire a trainer. Or rather a quality strength coach such as the contributors on this site. Others have done it. I believe AG1 hired Waterbury. It doesn’t make sense that you’ve been doing what you said and not gaining. It’s hard to diagnose over the internet, but it’s very hard to believe that you could’ve been eating big enough to gain a bunch of fat, lifting intensely, and using gear and not had progress.
A quality strength coach with solid nutritional knowledge will be able to get you in gear. We can’t tell from a computer post whether you are lifting with the proper intensity. But a strength coach will be able to. And a good one will be able to help you address it. And create a diet to go along with teh training program he puts you on.