Help Me Gain :)

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Ok, I’ll leave that other thread alone, so Ive created this one. it’s a bit lengthy but please give me 5 minutes of your time.

I’ll just tell you guys a little about myself -

I decided to start training because I sick and tired of being skinny. I was weighing in at a miserbale 126-130lbs.

I started messing with weights at home, didnt really have a clue what i was doing training wise but was told that to get big, you gotta eat big, so that’s what i did.

I stuffed myself until I was virtually sick after every meal, and in a very short space of time I gained about 24-28lbs and ended up with stretch marks all over my thighs/ass - so when it comes to eating, Im no pussy, I can eat like the bigguns can.

so there I was, 25lbs heavier but I know that all that weight was fat. the way I trained, there was no way on gods earth that I could have gained any muscle. so I was about 150lbs and alot fatter than before.

I stopped training, then got myself a weight bench maybe a few week/month later started again. I read a book on how to train but I only had a weight bench, barbell and dumbells, but I carried on.

I bought books - enyclopedia of bodybuilding, brawn, a nutrition book and continued to educate myself on every aspect of bodybuilding.

I then injured myself and was out of action for about a year.

when I started again, I wasnt making anything in the way of progress after training for about a year, so I decided to buy a bodybuilding program that was aimed at ‘hard gainers’ by Anthony Ellis, so I did that.

the program came through the post and when it did, I took my time with it. I read the book TWICE (great book as wel, I recommend it), I made sure I knew what I was doing and then I started. I was at about 150lbs in weight with way too much fat. so I started the fat loss first. took me 4 months to shift the fat I was advised to lose. so i was down to my initial weight before the fat gain which was about 130lbs ish.

I then started the mass gain and I noticed that the fat was creeping back on but what the hell, I was bulking, right? i was using the equation of 18 x your body weight in lbs = daily calory intake then worked out my ratios which I think was 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat. but making the transition from fat loss to mass gain was by increaing calories slowly.

I did this routine for a good while, gave it all I had and didnt notice any major changes in the mirror, arms and shoulders were a little bigger, but I still looked like I had never lifted a weight before.

I got fed up with that, gave it more than enough time (over a year?) so looked elsewhere for better routines. I found sites such as this, used some of Chad’s routines, tried DogCrapps methods, then thought maybe Im not doing these right, so went right back to basics, concentrated soley on the compound lifts and using good form and used a simple routine (I should mention here, that as diet plays a big %age in success in bodybuilding, that I was always tinkering with it) even this didnt work. so I started using gear and tried other routines (yes, I researched it for a long while before using)

since then Ive tried a few more routines and Im now about 15-20% @ 160lbs.

I’ve been training roughly for about 6 years, but very hard and seriously for 4 years and out of those 4 years, 2 years Ive been using gear but no matter what I do, I dont seem to gain like anyone else, my gains have been really poor - I’ve worked out that Ive made 15lbs of LBW in the time Ive been training - that says it all really.

I’ve read 2 books on nutritiuon aimed at the bodybuilders/athletes, a book on carbs, 4-5 books on bodybuilding plus used the net and read god knows how many articles/sites, so Im not exactly lacking knowledge. I’ve even given my brother advice on how to train and he’s alot bigger than me!

*note,the time scales in the story above might not be accurate, but it was only poasted as a rough guide.

diet:

meal 1

100 grams of oats
50 grams of whey
1.5 tablespoons of flax oil
1 yogurt
glass of fruit juice

meal 2:

2 tins of tuna
75 grams of wholmeal pasta
tomato sauce
25 grams of nuts

meal 3:

200 grams salmon
150-200 grams of potatoes
peas
broccoli
cauliflower

—TRAIN— (sipping some simple carbs)

Post workout:

35-50 grams maltodextrin/35-50 grams dextrose
50 grams whey

1 hour later

150-200 grams chicken
potatoes+veg
banana

meal 5:

32 grams of liquie egg whites
4 slices of wholemeal bread

meal 6:

20 grams casein
20 grams of whey
25 grams of cashew nuts

the training below is what Ive been using. my bro has used the same, it’s been given the green light by some knowledgable people on the net and it worked ok for my bro.

training: - reps in the 10-6 rep range.

MONDAY:

chest+triceps

bench press - 5 sets - 1-2 sets to F
incline press - 5 sets - 1-2 sets to F
skull crushers - 2 sets
close grip bench - 2 sets

WEDNESDAY:

back+biceps

Deadlifts - 5 sets - last 2 sets to F
bent over dumbell rows - 5 sets, last set to F
barbell curls - 3 sets

FRIDAY:

shoulders

overhead press with dumbells - 5 sets - last set to failure
upright rows - 4 sets
side lat raises 2 sets

SATURDAY:

legs:

SLDL - 5 sets, last set to F
SQUATS - 5 sets, last 2 sets to F
leg extension, singles - 4 sets, last 2 sets to F
Leg curls - 4 sets

now Ive tried the above routine taking now sets to failure and it hasnt worked. I just seemed to get really fat.

has anyone got any suggestions?

I might try a HIT routine, training twice a week, but using different exercises each day like this:

monday - dealift

thursday - bent over row/chins

2

I hope this won’t sound too mean, but you are the prototypical weightlifting nerd. You study too much about it, but at least you also have done some stuff.

That said, listen up. Getting big isn’t hard, nor is it complicated. You eat big, and you lift big. Let’s divulge.

Eating big is simple. What do you eat? Food. How much? However much you need to get bigger. What types of food to eat? You already damn well know this.

Eat your veggies with every meal, get lots of protein, stay away from deep fried foods and saturated fat, blah blah blah blah. No one has to tell you this. Since you were three and your mom tried to shove broccoli down your mouth, you have known what you have to eat. It’s not rocket science.

How to lift? Equally simple. Here’s the #1 rule: dedication with a shitty program will take you miles farther than little dedication with a great program. Get yourself a program, and fucking stick with it until you stop seeing progress on your lifts.

What program, you may ask? One that involves weights is usually a good place to start. Simplicity is key. Just go do the really big-ass lifts, however you want to. Squat, deadlift, press, and pull, and you’re fine. Almost any rep scheme will work, just listen to your body. If you want to start with something basic, do 5 x 5 or 3 x 8. For legs, do squats and deadlifts, for your chest, to bench press, for your shoulders, to military presses, for your back, do chin-ups and rows. Everyone loves curls and tricep kickbacks too, so go add them in if you want.

It’s not hard buddy.

3

i also trained in a simliar way not a lot exercise and heavy weight but recents ive went from doing 3 or 4 exercise for 3 sets of less then 8 reps always to
8 or 9 exercise 4 sets and 10 reps ussually and ive never felt soarer after doing this work out with the ex marine but ive burnt more calories then ever before bc we kept moving never taking a real brake.
i always though this was more body bulding but once i saw him bench 425 at 205 i believed his program can add strenght to me

4

[quote]danmaftei wrote:
I hope this won’t sound too mean, but you are the prototypical weightlifting nerd. You study too much about it, but at least you also have done some stuff.

That said, listen up. Getting big isn’t hard, nor is it complicated. You eat big, and you lift big. Let’s divulge.

Eating big is simple. What do you eat? Food. How much? However much you need to get bigger. What types of food to eat? You already damn well know this.

Eat your veggies with every meal, get lots of protein, stay away from deep fried foods and saturated fat, blah blah blah blah. No one has to tell you this. Since you were three and your mom tried to shove broccoli down your mouth, you have known what you have to eat. It’s not rocket science.

How to lift? Equally simple. Here’s the #1 rule: dedication with a shitty program will take you miles farther than little dedication with a great program. Get yourself a program, and fucking stick with it until you stop seeing progress on your lifts.

What program, you may ask? One that involves weights is usually a good place to start. Simplicity is key. Just go do the really big-ass lifts, however you want to. Squat, deadlift, press, and pull, and you’re fine. Almost any rep scheme will work, just listen to your body. If you want to start with something basic, do 5 x 5 or 3 x 8. For legs, do squats and deadlifts, for your chest, to bench press, for your shoulders, to military presses, for your back, do chin-ups and rows. Everyone loves curls and tricep kickbacks too, so go add them in if you want.

It’s not hard buddy.[/quote]

mate, no offence, but have you actually read my post?

5

Could people responding PLEASE read his post and also read the posts on the other thread

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1133566&pageNo=12

so this doesn’t go through the same arguments that have been going on.

Wanna, you should have told us how many REPS you did in those workouts, sets, and reps, not just sets. For each exercise.

You eat OK but could eat a bit (lot) more. That is one thing. But shouldn’t really be the problem.

You seem a very … frantic person, it is possible you are sort of highly strung, nervous individual, NOT acting like a big, relaxed, chilling out dude … if you are like that 24/7 highly strung that might be impeding progress. Also anxious, overly excited, etc… this all isn’t great.

You should post the weights you could squat, row, bench and OH press for the beginning and end of your years of training (and as many intervals in between). If you keep doing the same thing and same weight you simply will not change. You HAVE to make incremental increases each workout for a couple of weeks, then backoff, then do it more. HAVE TO. If you are not progressively increasing yourworkload your body will just go “stuff you, this week is the same as last week, no need to change nothin’”

If you have actually increased your strength but not size then congrads, that is a good effort.

One thing you might be overlooking is the time taken to lower the weights, if you are raising them and then dropping them fast, that ain’t helping for mass. Also, if you are raising them slowly, that isn’t so good either.

Apart from that you could have any number of medical conditions, e.g an immune system problem that drains energy, allergies to foods, Caeliac disease, who knows. Do you for example suffer from any - and I mean ANY - digestive problems? bloating? gas? the runs?

The fact that your brother gains and you don’t suggests you have a problem, to me. Your genetics must be similar, your knowledge, approach, diet etc… must be somewhat similar, yet he gains, you do not.

Were you born premature? that doesn’t help.

Answers please!

I’d love to see you discover something and fix it and start making some gains.

6

I’ve read all of your posts, and you are very vague about your training.

Simply, how strong were you when you started and how much improvement did you see before you stopped?

How long did you train without stopping, or more to the point, what was the longest time you trained without stopping or changing a routine?

What gear are you using, what effect did that have on you?

I would suggest that the very reason you are not progressing is that you are changing everything around too frequently and the various breaks you took did not help either.

7

since fat gain has been a problem for you i would try not to mix fats and carbs in the same meal.
good to see you made your own thread

8

WOAH check out the fancy new “user options” button at the bottom of everyones’ posts … T-Nation is evolving fast these days

9

have you ever weighed much more then 160lbs? How have your strength gains been? Have you ever trained with somebody else with more experiance then you?

10

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Could people responding PLEASE read his post and also read the posts on the other thread

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1133566&pageNo=12

so this doesn’t go through the same arguments that have been going on.

Wanna, you should have told us how many REPS you did in those workouts, sets, and reps, not just sets. For each exercise.

You eat OK but could eat a bit (lot) more. That is one thing. But shouldn’t really be the problem.

You seem a very … frantic person, it is possible you are sort of highly strung, nervous individual, NOT acting like a big, relaxed, chilling out dude … if you are like that 24/7 highly strung that might be impeding progress. Also anxious, overly excited, etc… this all isn’t great.

You should post the weights you could squat, row, bench and OH press for the beginning and end of your years of training (and as many intervals in between). If you keep doing the same thing and same weight you simply will not change. You HAVE to make incremental increases each workout for a couple of weeks, then backoff, then do it more. HAVE TO. If you are not progressively increasing yourworkload your body will just go “stuff you, this week is the same as last week, no need to change nothin’”

If you have actually increased your strength but not size then congrads, that is a good effort.

One thing you might be overlooking is the time taken to lower the weights, if you are raising them and then dropping them fast, that ain’t helping for mass. Also, if you are raising them slowly, that isn’t so good either.

Apart from that you could have any number of medical conditions, e.g an immune system problem that drains energy, allergies to foods, Caeliac disease, who knows. Do you for example suffer from any - and I mean ANY - digestive problems? bloating? gas? the runs?

The fact that your brother gains and you don’t suggests you have a problem, to me. Your genetics must be similar, your knowledge, approach, diet etc… must be somewhat similar, yet he gains, you do not.

Were you born premature? that doesn’t help.

Answers please!

I’d love to see you discover something and fix it and start making some gains.

[/quote]

thanks mate, appreciate help like this.

  1. I did actually state that Im using 10-6 rep ranges at the moment but in the past have tried alsorts from 5x5, 3x8, 4x6, 10x10.

  2. I see what youre saying about diet, but this might sound stupid, but since I binged on food to gain all that fat, since then I have been very carb sensitive. I tried lowering protein and fats and raising carbs but still keeping my daily calorie intake the same but that resulted in fat gain.

  3. I am a frantic person, but I seem to go through phases of this. at the moment Im very depressed about the whole thing. this is how it goes - I’ll create myself a new routine (or find one on the net), I’ll look at my diet, I’ll eat BIG, eating everyy 2.5 hours, then after a while, I’ll look at my measurements and asess my training log and then after realising that nothings changed, I get down about it (like I am now) but I’ll get through this, and try again, but futher down the road I’ll see the same thing - new optimism, fresh hope, fresh approach to diet and training but same result, and on it goes. I thought it could be cortisol playing a role here - but it cant all be down to that, could it?

  4. I have posted the weights I use previously, maybe you missed it, so here they are again:

deadlift 242lbs - 6-8 reps
bent over dumbell rows 88lbs - 5 reps
bench press 160lbs ish - 5 reps
over head press with dumbells 55lbs but have used 66lbs for 7 reps but I think that was way too heavy and my form suffered.

Im not squatting at the moment due to a bad knee.

EZ bar curl 88-99lbs - 5 reps
skull crushers 88lbs - 5 reps

I started lifting 60lbs on bench press 25lbs bent over rows (dumbell)- I have got stronger but it takes the piss how slow my progress has been. you mentioned my brother too - he doesnt have the knowledge I have, he doesnt even count calories or counts the amount of protein he gets, he just lifts and grows :frowning: when I see him, it’s like someone has stuck one on my chin, it’s like God is rubbing my face in it and having a damn good laugh to himself! it’s a constant reminder that Im a failure when it comes to lifting.

11

[quote]The Beast wrote:
I’ve read all of your posts, and you are very vague about your training.

Simply, how strong were you when you started and how much improvement did you see before you stopped?

How long did you train without stopping, or more to the point, what was the longest time you trained without stopping or changing a routine?

What gear are you using, what effect did that have on you?

I would suggest that the very reason you are not progressing is that you are changing everything around too frequently and the various breaks you took did not help either.[/quote]

I’ve posted about my strength in the post above ^^

at one point my immune system was crap - i had glandular fever twice (before I started training) but whilst I was trainbing, I used to have sore throats alot usually lasting a few days, but Id usually train through that.

the reason why Im so down is that a while ago, I thogught to myself “when I get a clean run at lifting, things will fall into place” well, for the last 4 years Ive been training, I dont drink, I dont eat shit foods, Ive had a clean run but my gains are no better than when I was a dumbass idiot who knew nothing about training. I normally give a routine a good few weeks - when it gets to 12-16 weeks, and I dont see a change then I swop it - should I be going for longer?

on the gear side of things, I seem to do well in terms of strength on tren/var but when I once did a cycle that was dbol and tren, i had to switch to prop and I felt so shitty on the prop - strength dropped and I ended cutting the cycle short because it seemed I went from going fowards on the tren and dbol, to going in the opposite direction on the prop.

the gear was legit, no way it can be fake, my source is a decent source and used by loads of others.

12

[quote]redsox348984 wrote:
since fat gain has been a problem for you i would try not to mix fats and carbs in the same meal.
good to see you made your own thread[/quote]

so how would I eat salmon then? salmon has a fair bit of fat - what would I have it with? I normally go with potatoes and veg.

I dont have carbs and fat before bed or pre/post workout (most of the time, though I have stated in my diet example that I did have fat pre workout with carbs - this isnt always the case)

so will keeping fats away from carbs really help?

Ive heard this before but have also read/heard that this is bullshit?

13

Here is what has helped me to gain.

  1. Use only compound lifts where you can move the most amount of weight.

  2. Don’t waste time and energy training biceps/tricpes/calves. No leg extenion\leg curls\arm curls\tricep extensions, etc… If you are lifting heavy on the big movements your arms and calves will get plenty of work. If you aren’t lifting heavy on the big movements no amount of concentration excercises will make up for the lack of heavy lifting.

  3. Use only free weights - no machines.

  4. Try Chad Waterbury’s 10x3 workout.

  5. Mix up the set/reps over the course of a week. 10x3 one workout, 3x12 the next workout, etc…

  6. Perform whole body routines every session.

  7. Very important - do not train to failure. Waterbury and others write a lot on this topic. I used to be one of those go to failure lifters, once I stopped going to failure the weight started going on the barbell a lot faster.

Pick one of Chad Waterbury’s routines (his routines happen to fit my lifting style) and just start lifting heavy and keep eating big. If you find too much fat going on eat less carbs and eat more healthy fats to make for the calories if you need to.

14

After reading through the other thread and now this one, I truly believe your problems do stem from psychological issues. From what you have laid out, anyone with such a begginer-like weight and size will make progress. Maybe not optimum, but assuming you are putting a somewhat decent effort into your lifts you would see something happening. I’ll echo the advice of others and say you need to remove weight training as the primary focus of your life.

You are obsessing to a point far greater than what some trainers deem “paralysis by analysis”. You seem to be at the point where this is literally consuming your life and your thoughts. I read your posts and honestly feel you need some psychological help.

15

[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
over head press with dumbells 55lbs but have used 66lbs for 7 reps but I think that was way too heavy and my form suffered.

[/quote]

If you can do 7 reps with something, it’s not way too heavy. That’s only about 80% of your 1RM. Things like this make me question if you’re lifting as hard as you think you are.

16

[quote]billsdad wrote:
Here is what has helped me to gain.

  1. Use only compound lifts where you can move the most amount of weight.

  2. Don’t waste time and energy training biceps/tricpes/calves. No leg extenion\leg curls\arm curls\tricep extensions, etc… If you are lifting heavy on the big movements your arms and calves will get plenty of work. If you aren’t lifting heavy on the big movements no amount of concentration excercises will make up for the lack of heavy lifting.

  3. Use only free weights - no machines.

  4. Try Chad Waterbury’s 10x3 workout.

  5. Mix up the set/reps over the course of a week. 10x3 one workout, 3x12 the next workout, etc…

  6. Perform whole body routines every session.

  7. Very important - do not train to failure. Waterbury and others write a lot on this topic. I used to be one of those go to failure lifters, once I stopped going to failure the weight started going on the barbell a lot faster.

Pick one of Chad Waterbury’s routines (his routines happen to fit my lifting style) and just start lifting heavy and keep eating big. If you find too much fat going on eat less carbs and eat more healthy fats to make for the calories if you need to.[/quote]

1)I already do

  1. I do train biceps and tr’s but not much and it’s funny you shouldmmention this because I was guna start a new routine with nothing but compound lifts, no single joint lifts were guna be in there.

  2. I do only use free weights

4)I have tried that workout, plus a couple of others of Chad’s routines.

  1. I might give that a crack

  2. Ive tried whole body routines never going to failure.

this is what Im saying though, people come up with suggestions, but alotr of the time these suggestions are things Ive already tried.

17

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
After reading through the other thread and now this one, I truly believe your problems do stem from psychological issues. From what you have laid out, anyone with such a begginer-like weight and size will make progress. Maybe not optimum, but assuming you are putting a somewhat decent effort into your lifts you would see something happening. I’ll echo the advice of others and say you need to remove weight training as the primary focus of your life.

You are obsessing to a point far greater than what some trainers deem “paralysis by analysis”. You seem to be at the point where this is literally consuming your life and your thoughts. I read your posts and honestly feel you need some psychological help.[/quote]

Thanks, appreciate your input also.

I can defintely see where you’re coming from and to ertain extent I do agree and yes, there is a ‘but’ coming…

BUT I’m not like this all the time, I do go through periods where I just get on with things, periods where I dont think about this as much. Im posting this right in the middle fo a bad patch. I’ll get through this bad patch, then hit the weights with fresh optimism, I’ll train for a while, but after a few weeks when I dont notice things change for the better, I’ll be like this again - give it 3 months or so and I’ll be like this again. surely if Im OK for 3 months or so, I should be able to make SOME gains?

I see where you’re coming from, and think that I should seek more help. it;s just a bit off putting when Ive been to see ‘one of the best’ psychologists in my city for 2 years and he hasnt helped.

18

I agree with the psychological problems. One thing that has helped me tremendously:
KEEP A WORKOUT JOURNAL
That way, you can see progress, no matter how little it is.

Even if you can’t go the whole x reps, give an average, and try to beat that next time.

19

If you get stronger you will get bigger.

Get stronger.

20

Ive already mentioned that I keep a log mate :slight_smile: