For the record I don’t train hypertrophy (muscle-growth) hardcore. It’s a response to sprinting and hitting stuff and some of the conditioning work I do. For my skeletal size I don’t have that much muscle-mass on me. I do try to train the grip strength, tendon-strength and etc. but other than that it’s fast explosive movements, fast twitch stuff. As to my focus on power punching, you might be right that it will get me knocked out but one thing you guys can’t see in anything I’ve posted is that I do a lot of weaving and bobbing and fighting in the half crouch, feinting and etc. I try to keep my hands low to generate more power and rely on speed/agility to dodge punches. I am pretty good at dodging strikes and fighting from the low crouch. I do a lot of work like this on the mantis mitts, sometimes with a 20pound vest. which is exhausting on the legs, dodging mantis mitt strikes by ducking and weaving.
As to punchers being born. CHAPTER 3 “3. Punchers Are Made; Not Born”
“It’s true that nearly every guy can fight a little bit naturally, without having anyone show him the right way. It’s true also that the average boy or man might sit down at a piano and be able to pick out some sort of tune with one finger; or he might use the “hunt and peck” system on a typewriter until he had written a couple of lines; or he might jump into a pool and swim a bit with the dog-paddle or with his version of the breast stroke.” - Dempsey
you also talk about setting up shots, according to dempsey, a real fighter doesn’t need to set up a punch, he’s always ready to punch. I’m not going to “paint, paw, flicker, tap” and whatever else modern day fighters like to do, like dempsey also points out, any type you take a shot you open yourself up to a counter-punch, and it’s a lot harder to recover from being hit with a left JOLT than some sad tap of a jab. Though it’s good to be able to change your fighting tactics a the need comes up.
I have a fairly short thick neck, well protected core, thick bones, I would like to get be a brawler or counter-puncher that keeps the hands low. Not all boxers fight the way you describe, each person fights differently, to their own strengths psychological and physical. I also train in the half-crouch weaving and bobbing mantis mitts and the like a lot as well. I develop power on the heavy-bag, I try to develop skill in sparring or mantis mitt work, agility bag, speed bag, etc.
you still want to have well linked punches, like maintaining the power line, keeping that left hook nice and close where it might hit with the elbow if the punch missed.
"Their jabs are used as fluttering defensive flags to prevent their poorly instructed opponents from “getting set to punch.” A good fighter doesn’t have to “get set.” He’s always ready to punch. Some of them use their jabs merely to make openings for their rights. And that’s dangerously silly, for the proper brand of feinting would accomplish the same purpose. With but few exceptions, they do not use the left jab as a smashing jolt that can be an explosive weapon by itself-that can knock you down or knock you out.
There are two reasons why the left jolt is a rarity in fighting today. First, nearly all current boxers launch their jabs with the non-step shoulder whirl. Secondly, nearly all have been fed the defensive hokum that it’s less dangerous to try to tap an opponent with the left than to try to knock him down with the left.
Concerning that defensive hokum, let me say this: Any time you extend your left fist either for a tap or for an all-out punch, you’re taking a gamble on being nailed with a counter-punch. And the sap who uses “light stuff”-rapping, flicking, etc.-has his left hand extended much more often than the explosive left-jolter, who doesn’t waste punches-doesn’t shoot until he has feinted or forced his opponent into an opening. It’s true that you can “recover” your balance more quickly after missing a tap than after missing a hard punch. But it’s also true that an opponent who is defending only against taps and slaps will be much more alert to counter than will an opponent who is being bombed." - Jack Dempsey
At the end Dempsey talks a lot about “learning how to fight” and how someone should learn from the start. that a beginner should focus on punching, that learning how to box based off anything but an aggressive defense ingrains bad habits. ch18,
“It follows that more than half the beginners will consider it more important to protect their own noses than to concentrate on learning how to belt the other guy in the nose. They’ll develop “defense complexes” that will stick with them. Fellows with defense complexes rarely develop into good punchers. Even when they are shown how to hit correctly, they sprout bad punching habits while concentrating on blocking, parrying, back-pedaling and the like. They “pull” their punches; they side-step while trying to throw straight smashes; they move in with “clutching” fists that seek to encircle their opponents for clinches; and they do much showy but purposeless footwork.” - Dempsey
“You’re lucky. You’re starting with the mental accent on punch. And it’s a 100-to-1 shot that your attitude will not change.” - Dempsey.
I say this at the risk of perpetuating this trollfest. Go buy a new book. That is one persons perception of one aspect of fighting. Go get training in a real gym and last but certainly not lest, go fight somebody. It will open your mind to what is really going on and what your weaknesses and strenghts are.
The people here giving you advice are all fighters who train with experienced trainers and fighets, some quite legendary in fact. Yet you just quote this writing. Not stating that it is misinformation, there is tons of facts in Dempsey’s writing but practical application changes everything.
As far as modern fighters using taps for jabs etc… I can see a little truth in that and many people stand bladed to make a smaller target which sacrifices the jab but also empowers the other hand when the shot is there. The more I think of it I highly recommend you get in the ring or cage and try fighting as you described, it will be a great experience for you. Then post back with your own experiene instead of Jack Depmsey second hand regurgitation.
[quote]Ranzo wrote:
I say this at the risk of perpetuating this trollfest. Go buy a new book. That is one persons perception of one aspect of fighting. Go get training in a real gym and last but certainly not lest, go fight somebody. It will open your mind to what is really going on and what your weaknesses and strenghts are.
The people here giving you advice are all fighters who train with experienced trainers and fighets, some quite legendary in fact. Yet you just quote this writing. Not stating that it is misinformation, there is tons of facts in Dempsey’s writing but practical application changes everything.
As far as modern fighters using taps for jabs etc… I can see a little truth in that and many people stand bladed to make a smaller target which sacrifices the jab but also empowers the other hand when the shot is there. The more I think of it I highly recommend you get in the ring or cage and try fighting as you described, it will be a great experience for you. Then post back with your own experiene instead of Jack Depmsey second hand regurgitation.[/quote]
Dude, seriously, relax.
This fucking guy is a total joke, let him roll. And most definitely don’t put any effort into helping him.
He is totally worthless as a fighter, but totally worthwhile as a source of entertainment.
must resist urge to feed troll. if nothing else some good responses in this thread could show actual miss guided beginners who may share some of the ideas this over the top caricature is rooted in.
[quote]bartonmlee wrote:
Hey Irish, if you really want him quiet, why not challenge him to a fight!?! we all could use a troll killer
aound here…[/quote]
Jack Dempsey was WAY more than merely “one guy” when it came to hitting/punching.
He was THIS guy:
His book is superlative. Everyone who may ever need or want to strike someone else(So that is everyone in my world view.) should read it, consider its contents, and probably practice/investigate what is in it.
The issue with IronClaws is not that he picked the WRONG book. Its that he is treating it like it is the only book.
Ranzo, don’t think this is a disagreement with your posts. I am basically typing out of concern for lurkers who will read this thread and may dismiss a good resource because of a mis-guided zealot or selfish troll, whichever you hold the OP to be.
Sledge hammer training, wood splitting, or wood chopping are great conditioning exercises for a combat athlete. They do not take the place of learning or practicing how to DO THE DAMN THING in the first place.
Jack Dempsey was WAY more than merely “one guy” when it came to hitting/punching.
He was THIS guy:
His book is superlative. Everyone who may ever need or want to strike someone else(So that is everyone in my world view.) should read it, consider its contents, and probably practice/investigate what is in it.
The issue with IronClaws is not that he picked the WRONG book. Its that he is treating it like it is the only book.
Ranzo, don’t think this is a disagreement with your posts. I am basically typing out of concern for lurkers who will read this thread and may dismiss a good resource because of a mis-guided zealot or selfish troll, whichever you hold the OP to be.
Sledge hammer training, wood splitting, or wood chopping are great conditioning exercises for a combat athlete. They do not take the place of learning or practicing how to DO THE DAMN THING in the first place.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
Robert - No doubt Dempsey was the man. He’s an idol of mine… as any man who learned to fight in saloons would be.
But like you said, you can’t only read that book. Dempsey’s opinion of laughing at using the jab to set up other punches is something I disagree with him vehemently on, as most modern trainers would.
Hell, you know what I’m talking about, I’m not going into it here.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Dempsey’s opinion of laughing at using the jab to set up other punches is something I disagree with him vehemently on, as most modern trainers would.
[/quote]
It has been a little while since I went cover to cover on Dempsey’s book, but I believe he stated it was more for “fist-fighting” than “prize-fighting”.
In this light it may be that he is eschewing feinting and complicated set ups because the opponent will likely be attacking in a more pressed and less measured fashion. Hooking off the jab may have to take second chair to keeping your balance and hitting the guy hard enough to back him off you.
Even so, put me firmly in the pro Jab camp. Stiff jabs are great. So are lighter set ups. I think having a good jab is pretty much like getting a blow-job. It may not be THE solution to all your problems, but it makes everything better/easier to deal with.
No, it’s not more for “fist-fighting” than “prize-fighting” he explains the difference between both and the associated precautions/etc you should take between them. It’s for both, but it has a heavy focus on boxing.
[quote]IronClaws wrote:
No, it’s not more for “fist-fighting” than “prize-fighting” he explains the difference between both and the associated precautions/etc you should take between them. It’s for both, but it has a heavy focus on boxing. [/quote]
Well the only heavy-bag I have is propped in a chair, the top ripped. I should probably wait until I have a new heavy-bag on the stand to give my left-hook any credit. I want to get that thunderous crack on video. with the chair so low in the corner I can’t maintain the “power line” for a good left-hook, can’t link my bodies speed/weight when it’s that low in the corner like that. Not on a left-hook anyway.
[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Well the only heavy-bag I have is propped in a chair, the top ripped. I should probably wait until I have a new heavy-bag on the stand to give my left-hook any credit. I want to get that thunderous crack on video. with the chair so low in the corner I can’t maintain the “power line” for a good left-hook, can’t link my bodies speed/weight when it’s that low in the corner like that. Not on a left-hook anyway. [/quote]
So leave the heavy bag in the chair, and suspend yourself upside-down by chain from the ceiling.
It’ll be just like working the heavy bag, just in reverse.
So thousands of left-hooks later, my left hook is pretty good. :)[/quote]
If it’s anywhere near as vicious as your straight left, you should probably just go to the Wildcard now.
Freddie would take you on no doubt… that is, if he could possibly fathom the ungodly strength you’ve developed on your own in the dark depths of the Canadian wilderness.
