omg cortes i was NOT comparing the abuse potential of modafinil with adderrall for fucks sake. If that’s what you think i was saying, then i believe you are too blinded by your anitpathy towards me to understand where i’m coming from.
Point is, adderrall may have unpredictable effects on your body, but then so does modafinil which is being promoted, even though we know VERY little about it. Unpredictable does not mean “the same”.
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
omg cortes i was NOT comparing the abuse potential of modafinil with adderrall for fucks sake. If that’s what you think i was saying, then i believe you are too blinded by your anitpathy towards me to understand where i’m coming from.
[/quote]
My antipathy toward you (which is really not as much as you may think…I honestly find you rather pitiable, and I honestly do not intend that in any sort of mean or hectoring way)…my antipathy toward you has nothing to do with this conversation. I think you are all over the place with it, and you are really not sure what your point is.
Go back and re-read the thread and try and see if you can figure out why the subject of modafinil was brought up in the first place.
CEASEFIRE!!!
I’ve used Moda by itself (200-400 mg), Adderall by itself (5mg XR), and had a stack of [200 mg Caffeine, 800mg Oxiracetam, 500 mg Alpha GPC (not Biotest brand), 10 mg Vinpocetine, 50 mcg Huperzine A, and 60 mg of Ginkgo Biloba]
I have better short-term work capacity, and a FANTASTIC ability to concentrate with the Adderall (no side effects except feeling AWESOME), better long-term work capacity with Moda (with an uneasy feeling the entire time), and moderate work capacity but the best memory from the stack, with no side effects.
I started listening to Beethoven/Pirates of the Caribbean soundtracks/Lord of the Rings soundtracks and it really helps with my concentration while studying. I highly recommend this.
And as a sidebar, does that stack look ok to you BBB?
To the OP, if you can get a prescription from your doctor for a low dose extended release amphetamine, say 10mg of amphetamine (which is 5mg for the first four hours and 5mg for the second for adderal XR) you can try it and see how you respond to it. Intermittent use of low dose amphetamines to give you a little push to focus on work that you would normally be unable to focus on probably won’t elicit all of the negative effects espoused here that are more correlated with continued use at higher dosages.
Also just an aside, I think the amphetamine works really well when taken at a low dose with coffee throughout the day as needed assuming you handle that well. Its an individual thing based on what I can tell from anecdotes so you really have to try it if you want to know how it affects you. I can tell you from personal experience that its a nice tool to have when I have to write a paper or read a lot or study foreign language.
Also I can tell you taking a 10mg cap on school days I have felt no ill effects from it. Also I have talked with a number of competent doctors about this medication and the consensus is that a low dose on an as needed basis doesn’t constitute a threat to your health if you aren’t experiencing unpleasant side effects like headache or nausea. Just my .02
You should get your friend into coca leaf tea - mate de coca. Will keep him working hard and alert without the caffeine jitters.
I think it’s safe to assume that the dopaminergic pathway is complex and can be unpredictable.
Also, the whole “abuse” potential doesn’t hold water, because i’ve read other studies that say it has low abuse potential amongst ordinary users, but could have high potential amongst those recovering from cocaine addiction.
I don’t find it pleasurable at all - but i think there’s a lot of subjectivity to that. Sometimes, when i come down from MDMA i don’t feel “down” per se, a little numb but super alert, like coming down from coke when you’re trying to close your eyes. It’s not nice. But i get a “mild” version of that feeling on moda - and DEFINITE need for rebound sleep…
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
You should get your friend into coca leaf tea - mate de coca. Will keep him working hard and alert without the caffeine jitters.
I think it’s safe to assume that the dopaminergic pathway is complex and can be unpredictable.
Also, the whole “abuse” potential doesn’t hold water, because i’ve read other studies that say it has low abuse potential amongst ordinary users, but could have high potential amongst those recovering from cocaine addiction.
I don’t find it pleasurable at all - but i think there’s a lot of subjectivity to that. Sometimes, when i come down from MDMA i don’t feel “down” per se, a little numb but super alert, like coming down from coke when you’re trying to close your eyes. It’s not nice. But i get a “mild” version of that feeling on moda - and DEFINITE need for rebound sleep…[/quote]
Wyld, how extensive, exactly, is your experience with moda? What brand did you use?
I ask these questions in good faith, by the way.
It’s just that your experience differs from any I’ve heard about moda to date. I will admit that, personally, 400 to 600mg of moda does give me a faint euphoric feeling, highly focused, and seems to be extremely effective in facilitating conversation, as mentioned above by BBB, though I also feel “good,” like the cleanest coke high you can imagine, but very, very mild. The difference between this and amphetamine/cocaine type drugs is that, at least for me, once I’m at that point, I absolutely do not want any more moda at all. In fact I physically don’t want more, whereas every other stimulant drug I’ve done has me craving more and more of the drug, even when my heart is slamming in my chest and I’m tweaking my balls off and clearly don’t need anything more for my own physical safety. Hence my assertion, and I think BBB’s also, that moda does not seem like a drug that is prone to abuse.
And, for the record, I am not ashamed to admit that I DO have an addictive personality, and these kinds of drugs are something that I should typically stay away from because I tend to relinquish control. Except on moda, that never happens.
I was on adderal for 5 months, taken as prescribed, never abused it. I thought it would give me focus at work. Bottom line is it never helped so I quit taking it. On a positive note, it never messed with my training or appetite. I still gained muscle and strength.
I’m sure if I had took a bunch at once, I could of written a few term papers lol… Probably handy stuff if your in school maybe…
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I have coca tea here. Even a double bag, super-steeped mug of the stuff does absolutely zero for me. A shame. But it tastes OK so I can’t complain.
Modafinil has a genuine therapeutic use for recovering coke addicts, so I don’t know what they are saying that it might have abuse potential.
I suspect they mean that it works so well at getting them out of their post-high funk, that they might come to rely on it. Well no shit, but where is the major harm in that? At least they won’t be out whoring and robbing for their next hit.
HAng on, I thought you said it gave you a dopaminergic high. You can’t have dopamine without pleasure, from what I understand.
Oh and coming down from ‘coke’ is not a valid comparison, since it is not the coke you are coming down from, but the miscelaneous stimulants that the coke is cut with. Trust me on this. Unless you have managed to isolate the small amount fo actual coke in the powder, you haven’t actually done coke. You have done 15-30% coke and 70-85% combination of inert fillers and synthetic stimulants, designed to mask the fact that the coke is over 50% shite.
Look, anything that is taken to an extreme level is going to cause repercussions. Staying up for days straight, whilst mega-dosing modafinil os not what the drug was designed for so I don’t think these experiences are valid for inclusion in the portfolio of modafinil experiences shared by most users here.
That’s my opinion though.
I still say that the dopaminergic potential of modafinil is small or non-existant in most users.
BBB[/quote]
Couple of questions:
If modafinil can be used to help recovering coke addicts - doesn’t this mean that they’re both effecting same/similar pathways and receptors etc.?
You can’t have dopamine without pleasure? Could you have an increase in norepinephrine without pleasure? Also, selegeline, i take regular doses of that stuff and that has NEVER given me any pleasurable feeling - which is why i think it’s abuse potential is low. But i also got seriously horny off of it and AWAKE - like i ended up staying awake 48 hours once because of it, it was insane. And selegeline works by increasing dopamine right?
Also, yeah i know i’m never gonna get pure cocaine, at least not in this fucking country. In fact, a ton of coke is cut with modafinil anyway lol. I was just relating a feeling i had on a drug, cut with other drugs that stimulate the PNS. I get it off ecstacy too. It’s like you’ve come down, there’s no pleasure, but everytime you close your eyes your mind is vivid and wide awake. Modafinil in large doses gives me that sort of jitteryness.
Anyway - what is the pathway that keeps you awake if it’s not dopaminergic?
I heard the modafinil/adrafinil marketers talking about “histamine” in keeping you awake. But most any studies i’ve read has said that its the dopamine-norepi pathways that keep you awake…
Or maybe i’m missing sumfink.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
You should get your friend into coca leaf tea - mate de coca. Will keep him working hard and alert without the caffeine jitters.
I think it’s safe to assume that the dopaminergic pathway is complex and can be unpredictable.
Also, the whole “abuse” potential doesn’t hold water, because i’ve read other studies that say it has low abuse potential amongst ordinary users, but could have high potential amongst those recovering from cocaine addiction.
I don’t find it pleasurable at all - but i think there’s a lot of subjectivity to that. Sometimes, when i come down from MDMA i don’t feel “down” per se, a little numb but super alert, like coming down from coke when you’re trying to close your eyes. It’s not nice. But i get a “mild” version of that feeling on moda - and DEFINITE need for rebound sleep…[/quote]
Wyld, how extensive, exactly, is your experience with moda? What brand did you use?
I ask these questions in good faith, by the way.
It’s just that your experience differs from any I’ve heard about moda to date. I will admit that, personally, 400 to 600mg of moda does give me a faint euphoric feeling, highly focused, and seems to be extremely effective in facilitating conversation, as mentioned above by BBB, though I also feel “good,” like the cleanest coke high you can imagine, but very, very mild. The difference between this and amphetamine/cocaine type drugs is that, at least for me, once I’m at that point, I absolutely do not want any more moda at all. In fact I physically don’t want more, whereas every other stimulant drug I’ve done has me craving more and more of the drug, even when my heart is slamming in my chest and I’m tweaking my balls off and clearly don’t need anything more for my own physical safety. Hence my assertion, and I think BBB’s also, that moda does not seem like a drug that is prone to abuse.
And, for the record, I am not ashamed to admit that I DO have an addictive personality, and these kinds of drugs are something that I should typically stay away from because I tend to relinquish control. Except on moda, that never happens.
[/quote]
I’ve been using it for three years. 200mg on most training days, 100mg on other days. Two or three times i took 1g to stay awake at a party, going on a marthron trip or some other stupidty like that.
I have to say, i did feel excited and motivated when i went up to a g, but i think that was more to do with the circumstances under which i took the drug, than the drug itself.
speculative bump
ok cool. those were geniune questions cos i’d like to know/learn more about these things.
cheers for your opinion.
wait wait wait… some lingering questions…
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
No. The moda is used to help recovering coke addicts by countering the physical lethargy and lack of motivation they experience, NOT to give them a dopamine rush.
[quote]
lack of motivation? Isn’t that essentially dopamine’s functions… also lethargy - i thought you were arguing that modafinile ISN’T a stimulant. The popular argument is that modafinil is a “wakefulness promoting agent” and NOT a stimulant.
So what are they trying to do? Keep cokeheads awake?? Don’t get this.
cheers dad!
[quote]morepain wrote:
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
^ I did this, i find not much. Perhaps difficulty in understanding the SPECT scans. They clearly alter brain ACTIVITY somehow, but this was obvious, as they are psychoactive drugs by definition. But what does that actually mean in real terms?
I have no idea. Point me in the right direction perhaps?[/quote]
i always like to read the comments of people actually taking the drug…you will notice a trend here…short term users generally positive…long term users (as in ongoing therapy) generally regret it often with ongoing side effects even after discontinuation
[/quote]
Well I have been taking it for over 4 years now and have not experienced a single negative side effect. My blood pressure is perfect, I have only had to raise the does by 10mg over the entire period of time, if I miss a dose or run out early i experience only a slight bit of fatigue, and have gone off of it for weeks at a time with zero side effects (with the exception of the return of my normal symptoms). ADHD and ADD are real problems and there are spec scans showing the huge difference between brains of adhd people and non-adhd.
The adderall makes my brain look and appear normal. I can’t sit still for 10 minutes and my brain races from thought to thought unless I take my meds. In some context this is a benefit, but most of the time it can be quite disruptive. My medication calms me down and I get zero stimulation from it. If a person is getting a buzz or feeling stimulated by it, they probably do not have ADHD and do not need it.
The real problem is that medication is overprescribed to people who go in faking symptoms to get medication for recreational purposes.
I am amazed at the number of truly ignorant post in this thread. There is also a trend on internet sites to where only people with horror stories write about their experiences, most people who benefit from the medication tend not to be searching around the internet to complain about their problem, because the problem is fixed.
There is one good site that rates almost all pharmaceutical medication based upon patient feedback and adderall has an excellent success rate. Dexedrine is actually the most effective, but also more prone to abuse and is more highly desired for recreational purpose so doctors are much more hesitant to dispense it from med shoppers.