[quote]Cortes wrote:
I don’t feel your posts are sanctimonious at all, spinsykel, and I think some folks would greatly benefit from heeding your warnings. Thanks for the time you are spending here. I’ve been down those paths, myself. I’ve known others who’ve been down those paths, too, who weren’t as lucky as I was. Amphetamines are bad news, period. They will never stop being that alluring, though.
Way, if you want an EXCELLENT study aid, start poking around some of the old nootropics threads here, and get ahold of some modafinil. Much, much, much, much better than any adderal or ritalin, like a thousand million times.
[/quote]
I’ve looked into the modafinil but I’m very skeptical about doing the old google searches looking for a source, so I just kinda forgot about it.[/quote]
Modafinil stimulates the dopaminergic and the norepinephrine neurotransmitters just like most amphetamines. The simplemindedness of someone to suggest blanket “nootropics” which effect the same pathways as the phets… “sigh” - and the hypocrisy coming from borderline body-dysmorphics playing fast and loose with the juice and being sanctomonious about ANOTHER drug hehe.
And Bonez, go have a good long wank and chill the fuck out. You’ll live longer sweety,
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I don’t feel your posts are sanctimonious at all, spinsykel, and I think some folks would greatly benefit from heeding your warnings. Thanks for the time you are spending here. I’ve been down those paths, myself. I’ve known others who’ve been down those paths, too, who weren’t as lucky as I was. Amphetamines are bad news, period. They will never stop being that alluring, though.
Way, if you want an EXCELLENT study aid, start poking around some of the old nootropics threads here, and get ahold of some modafinil. Much, much, much, much better than any adderal or ritalin, like a thousand million times.
[/quote]
I’ve looked into the modafinil but I’m very skeptical about doing the old google searches looking for a source, so I just kinda forgot about it.[/quote]
PM me and I’ll see if I can’t point you in the right direction, way.
(Kind of begs the question of where you are getting your adderal, though, now, doesn’t it?)
I don’t want a bunch of PMs from guys I don’t know, either!
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
and the hypocrisy coming from borderline body-dysmorphics playing fast and loose with the juice and being sanctomonious about ANOTHER drug hehe.
x[/quote]
You show your age and your stupidity in just about every post here.
You really believe that performance enhancing drugs and hard street drugs are comparable? Really?
And anyone who knows a damned thing about modafinil would know that there is no comparison with amphetamines. It’s a completely different drug.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I don’t feel your posts are sanctimonious at all, spinsykel, and I think some folks would greatly benefit from heeding your warnings. Thanks for the time you are spending here. I’ve been down those paths, myself. I’ve known others who’ve been down those paths, too, who weren’t as lucky as I was. Amphetamines are bad news, period. They will never stop being that alluring, though.
Way, if you want an EXCELLENT study aid, start poking around some of the old nootropics threads here, and get ahold of some modafinil. Much, much, much, much better than any adderal or ritalin, like a thousand million times.
[/quote]
I’ve looked into the modafinil but I’m very skeptical about doing the old google searches looking for a source, so I just kinda forgot about it.[/quote]
PM me and I’ll see if I can’t point you in the right direction, way.
(Kind of begs the question of where you are getting your adderal, though, now, doesn’t it?)
I don’t want a bunch of PMs from guys I don’t know, either![/quote]
haha thanks man, but my PM’s don’t work so I’m kind of shit outta luck with that.
My brother and roomie have a script for the stuff, it’s everywhere!
In this pilot study, modafinil blocked dopamine transporters and increased dopamine in the human brain (including the nucleus accumbens). Because drugs that increase dopamine in the nucleus accumbens have the potential for abuse, and considering the increasing use of modafinil, these results highlight the need for heightened awareness for potential abuse of and dependence on modafinil in vulnerable populations.
Modafinil decreased mean (SD) [11C]raclopride binding potential in caudate (6.1% [6.5%]; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.5% to 10.8%; P = .02), putamen (6.7% [4.9%]; 95% CI, 3.2% to 10.3%; P = .002), and nucleus accumbens (19.4% [20%]; 95% CI, 5% to 35%; P = .02), reflecting increases in extracellular dopamine. Modafinil also decreased [11C]cocaine binding potential in caudate (53.8% [13.8%]; 95% CI, 43.9% to 63.6%; P < .001), putamen (47.2% [11.4%]; 95% CI, 39.1% to 55.4%; P < .001), and nucleus accumbens (39.3% [10%]; 95% CI, 30% to 49%; P = .001), reflecting occupancy of dopamine transporters.
Modafinil Occupies Dopamine and Norepinephrine Transporters in Vivo and Modulates the Transporters and Trace Amine Activity in Vitro
I could go on. Anyway, i don’t mean any disrespect to you here bushidobadboy. I fully concede that your knowledge on this issue, and pharmacology in general, is VASTLY superior to mine, and if you tell me the above studies are flawed, or the information I received is wrong, i will (on reflection) defer to your better judgement.
But here’s the thing, I HAVE used Modafinil. I’ve been abusing this drug for the past three years. And i try to keep up my research on this, and various things. And i came across its NS stimulating effects VERY RECENTLY (like only a few weeks ago) and its made me sit up and pay attention. Because it gels perfectly with my experience and my experience with amphetimines/nootropics etc..
At this point, the whole “modafinil is a “wakefulness” promoting agent” spiel seems nothing like drug company marketing hype. And their assertation that it works by lowering histamine levels and NOT effecting dopamine/norepinpherine is highly suspicious to me. But again, i will defer to your better judgement if you tell me otherwise.
Thing is, the times when i took this drug and stayed awake for DAYS (I’ve superdosed) the feeling, emotion, effect was JUST like some of the lesser amphetamines, dopamine stimulants (even selegeline) that i’ve done - i mean talk about TWEEK CITY.
“600 mgs, which I took for the first time today, really has me jacked. My hands shake when extended and I am writing a report that I am almost always to fatigued to write. No real improvement in mood, just increased atention. Feels like coke after that initial rush feeling is gone. My skin feels slightly crawly and I have a bad case of the jitters. Could also be described as feeling like taking a couple no doze, but is much more like that nasty coke feeling.”
And that’s why modafinil has been so dissapointing to me - because i do experience the CRASH and the REBOUND sleep of a classic amphetamine, and it does fuck my sleep cycle right royally - so i have to dose VERY carefully and timed very carefully.
Furthermore, my girlfriend gets HORNY LIKE AN ANIMAL on high dose Modafinil. lol. I don’t know why women respond amphetamines like that waaaaaay more intently than men, but she says she gets the same fiendish hornyness on Adderall (i’ve never done adderall, but i don’t get that hornyness on modafinil).
Look here for the experience of girl who also gets insatiably horny on modafinl.
"Generally when I want to have sex with someone it’s triggered in quite a psychological manner. In this case I wasn’t even looking up at him, and I kept having to push the urge to the back of my mind to just tear his clothes off. It was a very physical, instinctive desire rather than one fundamentally fueled by emotion. Since I was, by now, quite analytical of my own experiences on drugs, I had not only made note of significant times, effects, doses etc. I had also told him about my day on this ‘fantastic’ drug and how it had made me feel. He is similarly intrigued by psychoactives and took a similar approach, so he was interested and asked me plenty of questions. Instead of doing perhaps the natural thing, once I’d hastily got academic talk out of the way, since my attention was now elsewhere, I told him about the sensation, in a similar way to the way I have described it here, as if analysing another person. He asked if it felt good or bad, and I replied that I felt like I might lose control at any second, but found the sense of anticipation quite enjoyable. He told me that was what it was like being a guy.
After absolutely amazing sex (not to be crude, merely accurate) and a bit more chat, he left and I got everything ready for the following morning, with attention to detail I hadn’t displayed in a long time. I realised I’d eaten nothing since breakfast, so made myself a bit of dinner which, although I wasn’t especially hungry, I managed to eat relatively easily. I slept lightly that night, waking often and desperate for morning to come so I could get up and hand in my work."
Anyway, BBB, my experience with Modafinil are wide and extensive and most everything leads me to believe that it DOES effect dopamine/epinepherine.
my experience with Modafinil are wide and extensive and most everything leads me to believe that it DOES effect dopamine/epinepherine.
[/quote]
This was my personal experience also, though I didn’t need to take it for long to know it was not a mild “stimulant” - its a psychiatric drug.
Having suspected its effect on dopamine, I did read several research papers supporting this finding.
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
and the hypocrisy coming from borderline body-dysmorphics playing fast and loose with the juice and being sanctomonious about ANOTHER drug hehe.
x[/quote]
You show your age and your stupidity in just about every post here.
You really believe that performance enhancing drugs and hard street drugs are comparable? Really?
And anyone who knows a damned thing about modafinil would know that there is no comparison with amphetamines. It’s a completely different drug.
Who, exactly, is being sanctimonious here?[/quote]
Eugh, cortes, cortes, cortes. Cortes of the Americas… there’s no need to get personal here. I’m nothing but respectful towards you.
I’m sorry, but are you saying Adderrall is a “street” drug? One of the most widely prescribed drug in the US? Far more widely (and comfortably) prescribed by doctors than “testosterone”?
Furthermore, what qualifies as a “street” drug or a performance enhancer is in the eye of the abuser. Both speed and cocaine were widely used as performance enhancers in the Tour De France, for example, back in the 1960s.
Please, you are far too experienced in your chosen pharmaceuticals to fall for politically created terms such as “street” drugs.
Anyway, my point of disagreement in this thread is basically, we are all adults here. I appreciate morepain’s point on the dangers of amphetamines and the shadyness of the pharmaceutical industry in promoting these drugs. It was a necessary post. But lets not get hysterical here.
You know, i’m also a member of another drug oriented forum - (where i’ve seen BBB post on actually, once long ago). And those people would be SHOCKED at the usage of AAS on this forum - and not bat an eyelid at their own indulgence in 'phets, research chems etc. They would say you are destroying your bodies and ensuring a LIFETIME of HRT dependence to maintain your overloaded endocrine systems. They would say you are placing unfathomable burdens on your heart and other organs in your pursuit of muscle, not to mention the consumption of eye-watering levels of calories which will undoubtedly impact your life-span. Furthermore, they would question the psychology of the obsession with your body of wanting to be as “big as possible”.
Not me though. I believe there are no moral absolutes in this world. I believe you are free to create your own narratives, and your mind and body are the arenas of your own heroic epic.
I think amphetamines have their uses. As do Adderall. Personally i would never want to indulge in these drugs for any LENGTH of time, but if someone wants honest information on uses, there’s no sense in freaking out like little girls.
Oh, and by the way, please wise-up to the term “nootropics”. This word seems to have caught on to pacify and infantiliise a whole RANGE of drugs which have their own hidden dangers. Drugs that will fuck with your neurotransmitters and mental capacities way beyond the so-called “street” drugs. Advising someone against “adderall” and then telling them to indulge in “nice and fluffy” nootropics, is naive to the say the least.
I do not support wyldflower, but one of cortes assertions about wyldflower placing adderal and AAS in the same category may be flawed.
Lets be real, while there is no immediate ‘high’ from using AAS, it is a foreign substance. Not only are they drugs we put in our body, they alter our physiology, and some people do in fact exhibit dependance or abuse of these drugs.
To place a steroid user and a heroin user on the same pedestal is folly, but there are some major crossovers between their behaviors.
Yes, steroid use is mainly for performance enhancement, maintain body weight/overall health, aesthetic enhancement, etc, while heroin use is generally strictly addiction/getting high.
Lets be honest, instead of just defending our behaviour/seperating it from narcotics users.
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
and the hypocrisy coming from borderline body-dysmorphics playing fast and loose with the juice and being sanctomonious about ANOTHER drug hehe.
x[/quote]
You show your age and your stupidity in just about every post here.
You really believe that performance enhancing drugs and hard street drugs are comparable? Really?
And anyone who knows a damned thing about modafinil would know that there is no comparison with amphetamines. It’s a completely different drug.
Who, exactly, is being sanctimonious here?[/quote]
Eugh, cortes, cortes, cortes. Cortes of the Americas… there’s no need to get personal here. I’m nothing but respectful towards you.
I’m sorry, but are you saying Adderrall is a “street” drug? One of the most widely prescribed drug in the US? Far more widely (and comfortably) prescribed by doctors than “testosterone”?
Furthermore, what qualifies as a “street” drug or a performance enhancer is in the eye of the abuser. Both speed and cocaine were widely used as performance enhancers in the Tour De France, for example, back in the 1960s.
Please, you are far too experienced in your chosen pharmaceuticals to fall for politically created terms such as “street” drugs.
Anyway, my point of disagreement in this thread is basically, we are all adults here. I appreciate morepain’s point on the dangers of amphetamines and the shadyness of the pharmaceutical industry in promoting these drugs. It was a necessary post. But lets not get hysterical here.
You know, i’m also a member of another drug oriented forum - (where i’ve seen BBB post on actually, once long ago). And those people would be SHOCKED at the usage of AAS on this forum - and not bat an eyelid at their own indulgence in 'phets, research chems etc. They would say you are destroying your bodies and ensuring a LIFETIME of HRT dependence to maintain your overloaded endocrine systems. They would say you are placing unfathomable burdens on your heart and other organs in your pursuit of muscle, not to mention the consumption of eye-watering levels of calories which will undoubtedly impact your life-span. Furthermore, they would question the psychology of the obsession with your body of wanting to be as “big as possible”.
Not me though. I believe there are no moral absolutes in this world. I believe you are free to create your own narratives, and your mind and body are the arenas of your own heroic epic.
I think amphetamines have their uses. As do Adderall. Personally i would never want to indulge in these drugs for any LENGTH of time, but if someone wants honest information on uses, there’s no sense in freaking out like little girls.
thanx![/quote]
The bottom line is this: Adderall and it’s cohorts are amphetamines. They are “street drugs,” for want of a better term. They do not suddenly achieve legitimacy and safety because a kindly old man in a white lab coat and glasses can scribble their RX on a piece of paper. If anything, drug pushing has become an institution.
And as for you attempts to equate moda and the aforementioned drugs, and now that you have revealed that you have extensive experience with moda? Well, then, either you really are delusional, or you are being intellectually dishonest. To even hint through comparison that modafinil has anywhere near the abuse potential of an amphetamine-based drug is about as stupid as do-i-need-a-pct? If you’ve “superdosed” it, you should know, it’s not “fun” at all above the therapeutic dosage.
[quote]idowhatican wrote:
I do not support wyldflower, but one of cortes assertions about wyldflower placing adderal and AAS in the same category may be flawed.
Lets be real, while there is no immediate ‘high’ from using AAS, it is a foreign substance. Not only are they drugs we put in our body, they alter our physiology, and some people do in fact exhibit dependance or abuse of these drugs.
To place a steroid user and a heroin user on the same pedestal is folly, but there are some major crossovers between their behaviors.
Yes, steroid use is mainly for performance enhancement, maintain body weight/overall health, aesthetic enhancement, etc, while heroin use is generally strictly addiction/getting high.
Lets be honest, instead of just defending our behaviour/seperating it from narcotics users. [/quote]
Think about the pharmacology of a high and try rectifying that with our thing. It doesn’t work. They are two different animals, no matter what kind of mental contortions you or the drug crowd would like to pretzel yourselves into.
Do I think that wyld’s mention of body dysmorphia might be warranted? Certainly. I certainly suffer from it, to X completely unquantifiable degree. Does our lifestyle produce a lot of very unhealthy people, habits, offshoots, practices, etc? Youbetcha.
Is is anything at all like the feeling of addiction? Have you ever actually experienced this feeling? Because let me tell repeat: They are two. different. animals.
If you want the simplest evidence of this, look at the users and dealers of steroids. Now look at the users and dealers of street drugs and tell me if you can’t see the difference.
To some degree, this is an argument over semantics. Yes adderall is an amphetamine, but that is a broad term and all amphetamines are not created equal. A 20mg oral dose of adderall is in a completely different universe than say a quarter gram blast of crystal meth, while both instances are in fact a reasonable single user dosing of an amphetamine. The term “street drugs” is also rather subjective. Heroin, crystal meth, and crack are inherently street drugs because they are not used medically/legally in any form. Marijuana used to be the same way by definition, but now it occupies both realms. Are we going to call dbol or tren “street drugs” because they are not used in any legal medical fashion and are solely acquired on the black market whereas Anavar and Test are used medically? Vicodin is a great example and analogy for adderall. Vicodin has helped many people with pain management while others have become addicted to it and had it ruin their lives. I’ve used Vicodin legally from a pharmacy post-surgery but I’ve also seen Vicodin used and sold illegally on the street. And while I hate to say anything remotely in defense of the pharmaceutical industry, Adderall offers the significant advantage of allowing the user to know exactly how much active ingredient is being ingested as well as the knowledge that it was manufactured under sterile, standardized conditions.
I agree with the parallel being drawn between AAS and adderall. Using myself as an example, I have never used either “recreationally”, but rather as an aid to optimize some aspect of my physiology in order to improve my performance in some venture, whether it be physique enhancement or academic achievement. Just as AAS will be a disappointment to anyone who is not willing to put the necessary effort into their nutrition and training, Adderall will not be very helpful to someone who is not willing to put the effort into their work/studies.
I am fortunate that I apparently do not have a genetic predisposition for addiction to anything I’ve ever experimented with. Yes Adderall can be addicting if one is so predisposed but based on a large amount of life experience as well as numerous friends/acquaintances, I’ve seen far less addiction with Adderall as I have with most other drugs, both “street” and otherwise.
[quote]ericcartman wrote:
To some degree, this is an argument over semantics. Yes adderall is an amphetamine, but that is a broad term and all amphetamines are not created equal. A 20mg oral dose of adderall is in a completely different universe than say a quarter gram blast of crystal meth, while both instances are in fact a reasonable single user dosing of an amphetamine. The term “street drugs” is also rather subjective. Heroin, crystal meth, and crack are inherently street drugs because they are not used medically/legally in any form. Marijuana used to be the same way by definition, but now it occupies both realms. Are we going to call dbol or tren “street drugs” because they are not used in any legal medical fashion and are solely acquired on the black market whereas Anavar and Test are used medically? Vicodin is a great example and analogy for adderall. Vicodin has helped many people with pain management while others have become addicted to it and had it ruin their lives. I’ve used Vicodin legally from a pharmacy post-surgery but I’ve also seen Vicodin used and sold illegally on the street. And while I hate to say anything remotely in defense of the pharmaceutical industry, Adderall offers the significant advantage of allowing the user to know exactly how much active ingredient is being ingested as well as the knowledge that it was manufactured under sterile, standardized conditions.
I agree with the parallel being drawn between AAS and adderall. Using myself as an example, I have never used either “recreationally”, but rather as an aid to optimize some aspect of my physiology in order to improve my performance in some venture, whether it be physique enhancement or academic achievement. Just as AAS will be a disappointment to anyone who is not willing to put the necessary effort into their nutrition and training, Adderall will not be very helpful to someone who is not willing to put the effort into their work/studies.
I am fortunate that I apparently do not have a genetic predisposition for addiction to anything I’ve ever experimented with. Yes Adderall can be addicting if one is so predisposed but based on a large amount of life experience as well as numerous friends/acquaintances, I’ve seen far less addiction with Adderall as I have with most other drugs, both “street” and otherwise.
[/quote]
This is a good post, and I find myself agreeing with most of it, though it is in contradiction with some of what I have written.
I do think that addiction, however, is more a matter of degree and circumstance, rather than simple disposition. I don’t think anyone is completely “safe” from its clutches, and those who think they are should take the greatest heed. I’ve heard all that before. Not directing this last statement at you, personally, btw, just a general warning.
I’ve only skimmed this thread, so forgive me if this is now off-topic, but having tried Adderall recently (like I lot of people I’ve gone back to school) I really wouldn’t recommend its use. I suppose if one “needs” it in a medical sense it’s one thing, but as someone without ADD or ADHD I can tell you it was not an enjoyable experience overall. I was definitely wired and kind of euphoric, however I became almost obnoxiously talkative. It also really decreased my focus. I was supposed to be writing papers and studying, but nothing could hold my interest for more than 5 minutes. It was very counter-productive in that regard. The worst was coming down, the crash. For the next two days I felt like a had a hangover (though perhaps some of that was in mind for all I know).
I’ve found various nootropics to be infinitely more beneficial and without making me feel like hell afterward.
[quote]idowhatican wrote:
I do not support wyldflower, but one of cortes assertions about wyldflower placing adderal and AAS in the same category may be flawed.
Lets be real, while there is no immediate ‘high’ from using AAS, it is a foreign substance. Not only are they drugs we put in our body, they alter our physiology, and some people do in fact exhibit dependance or abuse of these drugs.
To place a steroid user and a heroin user on the same pedestal is folly, but there are some major crossovers between their behaviors.
Yes, steroid use is mainly for performance enhancement, maintain body weight/overall health, aesthetic enhancement, etc, while heroin use is generally strictly addiction/getting high.
Lets be honest, instead of just defending our behaviour/seperating it from narcotics users. [/quote]
Think about the pharmacology of a high and try rectifying that with our thing. It doesn’t work. They are two different animals, no matter what kind of mental contortions you or the drug crowd would like to pretzel yourselves into.
Do I think that wyld’s mention of body dysmorphia might be warranted? Certainly. I certainly suffer from it, to X completely unquantifiable degree. Does our lifestyle produce a lot of very unhealthy people, habits, offshoots, practices, etc? Youbetcha.
Is is anything at all like the feeling of addiction? Have you ever actually experienced this feeling? Because let me tell repeat: They are two. different. animals.
If you want the simplest evidence of this, look at the users and dealers of steroids. Now look at the users and dealers of street drugs and tell me if you can’t see the difference.
[/quote]
I follow what you’re saying regarding the “high” of Adderall vs. the non-high of AAS but the issue is not so cut and dry. Used responsibly Adderall will not create a notable high but of course it will if one takes an excessive dosage. Indeed a responsible Adderall dose may provide a moderate stimulation but also improved focus and alertness with no negative impact on coordination or judgement.
At the same time I know people who enjoy the dopaminergic effects of dbol. Some find a definite increased sense of well-being when they use Test. Some seek out the increased aggression/competitiveness of Halo. These could be considered mild versions of a “high.”
Cortes, you mention the problems of addiction. I don’t think anybody is debating that addiction sucks and is a terrible thing. However, again it is not nearly as cut and dry as if anybody who tries Adderall will become hooked while nobody who tries AAS will become hooked at all.
I’ll just throw my simple opinion in here on something slightly relevant. I’ve never used Adderall so I can’t comment on it.
Regarding the “highs” AAS can induce. I don’t consider the euphoric effects of dbol a high. When I’ve used dbol (a few separate courses at 30mg/d) I really only felt its mental effects while working out. I’m thinking that the adrenaline had something to do with it, along with the other changes in body chemistry that occurs while lifting weights intensely.
Once I leave the gym that feeling fades a little while later and doesn’t come back until the next workout. Maybe dbol makes the natural endorphin response better, I don’t know. But I don’t think that dbol ITSELF is responsible for feeling of well being. Maybe if I used more per day the effects would have been more pronounced.
And my opinion of testosterone is in the same vein. I just feel more vigorous while using T (never been over 700mg/wk). I have never injected a shot of T and felt any different afterwards. Maybe guys who have low T that go on TRT feel something closer to a ‘high’ because they felt so shitty for so long.
But people with proper T levels who jack them up to 5-10x higher than normal the effects are less subtle. Some people even get lethargic on too much T. I’m starting to ramble so I’ll leave it at that.
