Long story but basically 43, on trt and occasionally blast with 400 test and 200 deca. I feel great on that but I’m worried I’m ruining my long term health and I want to life as long as possible.
However, I dropped down to 100 mg a week which puts me around 600 TT but I feel so bad, tired abs like meh on life. Is there a balance that’s pretty healthy yet yeild gains such as doing 200 a week test and it get my TT to 1100 and set it there… any advice?
What does your bloodwork look like? If all is good raise your weekly test amount a little until you feel good then run that for a while and repeat bloods to make sure nothing is going wrong.
Blood work, CBC, cmp, Tsh, lipids are all normal. Bp is normal.
I read a lot about longevity and most studies I saw said a high test level and low test levels increased mortality. I read one where it said the optimal range was 500. F that! I feel like crap at that level
So, if my labs and bp normal at higher test levels, think it still may shorten lifespan?
Nobody can tell you that. Obviously taking more is riskier than less. The only thing you can do is decide on how much risk you are willing to take on versus the results you want to achieve. Keep an eye on bloodwork. I’m a year older than you and take 175/mg wk currently which puts my TT at around 750-850. Do I feel better at 1100? Sure I do but my bloodwork starts to get a little out of whack so I stay at 175 and blast a couple times a year.
I’m going to up my trt to 150 a week (which my doc told me to do but I was trying to do lowest dose possible) and check labs and health parameters and see how I feel. My doc thinks 800-900 is ideal. I think he means ideal of risk benefits, not ideal for longevity
You need to think about your average levels, if you want a good picture. A TT of 1,000 on ED shots is healthier than a trough reading of 800 on once a week shots. The former is pretty much an average level reading, the latter is not close to average (wouldn’t surprise me if the former had an average of 1300-1500).
At a certain point, blasting doesn’t make sense. When you blast, do you return pretty much to the same baseline on cruise over time? If so, you are just renting gains at the cost of health. I say pick a cruise / TRT dose that you are good with as far as risk (I think the 150 mg/wk is probably about right), once you get to the point where you aren’t getting bigger on average blast to blast, why continue? Just stay there, you have reached your potential for your cruise dosage, and using more only gets you gains while you are on and a short while after (that isn’t worth it for me). My goal is to max out my potential on my cruise dosage, and stay there.
Well stated.
I inject every other day so I think my leveks are pretty consistently average (Ie not much peak and troughs).
With that said, I like your idea, what’s point of blasting but I would say I hold on blast gains for like 6 months and then ready to blast again. But going forward i think it’s best at my age (43), 6 kids and my goal of longevity is to stick with a trt dose of 150 and prob out my leveks around 900-1000 TT
I also do EOD shots and try for about 1000 ng/dL. 175 mg/wk gets me there, but we are all different. Some will need 100 a week to achieve that, and some will need 200 or more to get there. Based on your blood work, I think 150 mg/wk is a smart move.
So y’all think 1000 TT level could still live a long life?
Most of the studies I read on longevity said high and low test increases mortality but a level around 500 lead to longest lives…
It is outside of practically any guy who is natural. One EoD, you probably peak at 1200 and test at 1000, so an average of 1,100. A blessed man in regards to testosterone production might test at 900 ng/dL in the morning, but if he were to test at night would probably be 6-700 ng/dL, so an average of 800 for a genetic outlier that would also be young.
Personally, in my 40s, I think I’d be okay with a trough on EOD shots of 1,000, but 50s and on, I’d probably be thinking 800 as a goal.
By then I’ll probably be using replacement HGH (my levels of IGF-1 are trash now). I would look to another pathway to sustain my physique other than the androgen receptor after a certain age. HGH isn’t going to get you huge unless abused with slin and large amount of AAS, but it is good for being a bit leaner.
Just stay on trt and add some GH.
Blasting after 43 is not safe, it’s like skateboarding when you are 90… Is doable, but will probably die.
Add GH and maybe little insulin - you can check your sugars, maybe you even need a bit. Low dose of GH and slin gives your test dose 2-3 times of worth imo. I was blasting at least a gram of shit and i was 260lbs… I came down on 200mg a week with 4iu GH eod and some slin around my workouts and i actually continued to progress.
How much of that effect would you attribute to each (the GH and Slin)? I don’t really want to get into Slin. Maybe Metformin, or Ozempic (which I think increases insulin production).
Its not as much as - which one does what, its more about - what THEY do combined. I dont think GH does much on its own. Havent done slin solo also, but diabetics dont seem to be super huge, huh…lol.
This one only increases sensitivity,
You dont want that.
The risk of becoming a diabetic comes from the fact that you eat your BULK mode foods and the cells that make insulin have to work super hard. You can work them so hard for so long that they burn out and stop working - you become diabetic and need to inject slin.
If you ADD insulin now, you are actually helping your cells as they are not in such a stress. When im on a bulk my sugar is naturally a bit over the norm. After 10 years it might be twice cuz my cells would burn out. I add extra slin, my sugar drops a bit better and my insulin making cells can just do what they can do and not stress much.
Forcing “natural” insulin sounds really risky. Insulin works the opposite of how steroids work - steroids shut you down. Insulin doesnt - it just supplements, it takes off the extra stress of your cells.
I say take as much test as you can while maintaining healthy markers. Short periods of increased doses (blast) with plenty of cruising in between. Don’t eat a shit diet.
Ibe seen over 1000ng/dl on natties before (not even with sky high SHBG). It happens, and it was arguably far more common decades ago relative to now… But it’s not common
You’re looking at perhaps 1/100 physically fit young men.
One study looking at standardised ref ranges from around a decade ago found the top 1% in terms of testosterone production was around 1300ng/DL. I’d have to dig up that study again
My point being, it’s possible.
However on trt a TT of 1300ng/DL isn’t the same as a natty 1300ng/DL, chances are FT will be higher.
How do you conclude this?
I am assuming the degree of supraphysiological testosterone levels, as well as the cumulative exposure (area under the curve) is related to how healthy it is.
Below, both of these protocols result in a trough testosterone level of about 12.5 mg/day release. The protocol that uses 140 mg/wk split into ED injections actually has a bit higher trough value than the 200 mg/wk.
So basically, the once weekly shot requires more Test to get a slightly lower trough level than the 140 mg/wk in ED shots. BUT the area under the curve (overall testosterone exposure) for the 200 mg once per week is larger. Trough values mean something, but injection frequency needs to be considered.
Let’s go extreme, and say I injected once a month and had a trough value of 800 ng/dL. What would my peak have to be to achieve that? Maybe 5,000 ng/dL? What would my average testosterone level be? Maybe 2-2500 ng/dL? That isn’t as healthy IMO as staying closer to the reference ranges all the time, and using less testosterone to to achieve a similar trough value, with lower peak values.
FWIW, I don’t think ED shots are worth it for most people. EOD I think is worth it for me. I know when I test in trough that my peak isn’t all that much higher.
I would just throw out there that IMO someone on enhanced TRT thats physically fit, eats well to support their gym habits, and gets bloodwork done frequently is going to be better off than the average dude. I don’t see any detriment here. Most people are overweight, poor lipids, sedentary and never get bloodwork done. Just food for thought.
Understand the above. Quick thought or question… how bad on health etc would a 4 week blast of anadrol 50mg be maybe twice a year? Ie, add some mass, only have unhealthy markers 8 weeks out the year, gain some mass and cruise on the 150mg a week of trt test. Or maybe one 12 week blast of deca and test (300 deca, 500 test).
