[quote]Michael C wrote:
I want to punch you so hard in the face right now…and then up kick you in the groin. Then fill your headgear with cream cheese and have my way with it. A good ole fashioned skull fucking.[/quote]
Wow I start a thread about headgear and it turns into skull fucking. I love it!
[quote]Michael C wrote:
I want to punch you so hard in the face right now…and then up kick you in the groin. Then fill your headgear with cream cheese and have my way with it. A good ole fashioned skull fucking.[/quote]
Uhhh…yeah…THIS!
LOL.
I knew a kid who sparred with no mouthpiece, he eventually pissed someone off got ko’d an lost half a tooth. I laugh every time I see him.
For me it depends on who I’m sparring & how hard we’re going. For light to medium sparring with my friends, it’ll be just a mouthpiece. If I don’t know you, then I don’t trust you, so the headgear comes on, just in case. I dislike wearing it, but I wear it anyway.
Also, one of my friends teaches a fight class, & he’s complained to me that no one wants to wear their headgear, because nobody wants to be the weenie. So if I take his class the first thing I do is put on headgear so nobody else has to be the first one.
We even go as far as using different kinds of headgear. When using boxing gloves (so basically boxing, kickboxing/K1, open style tkd, …), we’re using boxing headgears. Thing is, over here you can’t compete without them, so the more you get used to wearing one, the less it’s going to distract you in actual competition. As for the protection value, it definately lessens the chance of getting cut, especially when throwing kicks.
Usually, we’re using MMA style gloves, though. Since we’re only dealing with standup-fighting in 90% of our training, that means a lot of hard blows to the head. In order to decrease cut frequency, broken noses etc. we’ve decided to use those face-protecting headgears (macho warrior series + fence, at the moment) for sparring.
Not an option for the combat team (those of us who are fighting outside our system, for example kickboxing as mentioned before) of course, but great for beginners / students that are not keen to getting injured.
Another possible reason you may want to consider using headgear is when sparring with people that are much much better than you. If you’re not wearing headgear, chances are you’ll develop nasty habits if they keep hitting you hard, such as getting punch shy and “dingo-ing” as we call it over here (covering up/crawling up your own asshole).
Conversely however, over reliance on headguards will probably instill bad habits like not enough head movement. It’s all about striking a balance IMO.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Conversely however, over reliance on headguards will probably instill bad habits like not enough head movement. It’s all about striking a balance IMO.[/quote]
x2.
Especially (not in boxing, I know. Sorry) when using face protection. People loose respect of being punched in the face. That’s why I’m advising all my students to fight with boxing gloves and no fance from time to time.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
The point sento brings up about boxers without gloves interests me. I’m actually slightly concerned that as I get more and more experienced in boxing, one day I’ll be in a barfight and I’ll sock the guy in the jaw, but in doing so, I’ll break my hand.
My brother who does Krotty is always giving me shit about how “you boxers don’t condition you knuckles, so while you hit hard, you break your hand when you dont have it taped and gloved up” I always pass it off as bullshit putdowns on his part, but I’ll admit it does have me concerned a bit. Maybe it’s time to introduce some Krotty Makiwara boards? :P[/quote]
Well, from the standpoint of a guy who’s done karate for years, then switched to boxing in the last couple, there are certainly differences in the way they teach you to hit.
In Karate, your power comes from rotation of the hips. The feet are often pegged to the ground, and as a consequence, you’re not getting the full power that comes with the shifting of all your weight.
While this makes for a weaker punch, it’s probably safer for your hands. In boxing, when you commit to a hook or straight right, you’re putting all your weight behind it, and bringing far more force to bear than your hand can handle. Hence the “wrapping” and “gloves.”
On top of that, when you’re boxing, your hands are loose. Most guys don’t even clench down hard until they’re about to make contact, and the more you get used to wearing gloves, the more I could see someone hitting with a loose fist and breaking it. Your hands are loose when shadowboxing, they’re loose when hitting the speed bag, etc… hell, the only time you really ball your fist (as much as you’re allowed to with gloves on) is hitting the heavy bag and sparring.
Odds are, when you first started, your trainer even said something to the effect of “Don’t fight with clenched fists,” meaning don’t waste energy. So this is kind of ingrained in the boxer’s psyche. For this reason, I try to hit the heavy bag a little with no gloves and no wraps. Not alot, and not timed - just a couple strong combinations that shake the bag and make me force myself to really keep my hands tight, and make sure my wrist is properly aligned. It took me a while to get to the point where I wasn’t rolling my wrist… but even then, a couple times I’ve felt pain in the bones leading to my knuckles, where the so-called boxer’s fracture happens. You gotta be careful.
Honestly, unless you’re one of the guys that truly takes Karate deadly seriously and trains hard every day for years while conditioning your knuckles, you’re not going to have the bricks on your hands that the karate guys will talk about. It’s possible, of course, but takes a level of dedication that not everyone has. So really, “conditioning” your knuckles doesn’t count for much. Hell, I’ve done pushups on my knuckles on cement every day for years. I got callouses on them, but when I punched a wall, my knuckle broke. Go figure.
There’s a reason that open hand strikes were invented- so you don’t bust your hand. Learn some of them… they’re easy as hell to learn and could do well to save your ass. A good rule of thumb is to hit a hard target (skull) with a soft blow (palm heel) and a soft target (stomach) with a hard blow (punch with your fist). This will keep you from shattering your hand, as has happened to many boxers in streetfights in the past.
Also, make sure that you practice once in a while like you’re in a streetfight. Punch hard with a solidly closed fist, hit the bag with a closed fist, and see how it feels. Get used to it, so that if some shit goes down, you won’t end up with your hand in a cast. [/quote]
I’d agree with a lot of what Irish says above.
Keep in mind that the system that I’m coming from is primarily concerned with real world self defense, and not really with competition in mind (though some of the students have done very well in kickboxing competitions, and obviously guys like Lewis and Wallace know a thing or two about competitive kickboxing). For someone who is looking to compete in the amateur ranks, I agree with others that it’s a good idea to get used to fighting with one on and the prevention of cuts is much more important.
As far as the method of striking though, I personally don’t believe that one needs to punch “karate” style to punch safely in a real fight. Nor do guys like Lewis (who’s first striking art was Shorin-Ryu karate), or Shihan Walt Sr., Walt Jr. or Charlie Lysak all of whom have used boxing/kickboxing punching in countless real world fights.
If you learn how to hit right without gloves/wraps, then you’re much less likely to injure your hands. But, like Irish said, you’re going to roll your wrists and possibly bloody up your knuckles a bunch of times in getting there. I can blast away at the heavy bag full force for pretty much as long as my lungs can last me and not injure my hands. It’s just a matter of practice.
Being more savvy about where and how you throw closed fist punches in a real fight though, also goes a long way towards preventing injury. Choose soft targets when possible, always land with the first two knuckles (I have a friend/fellow student who works in an emergency room and he has said that he’s never seen someone come in who broke one of their first two knuckles, it’s always the pinky or ring metacarpal that gets broken), etc…
Train like you fight.
If you’re an amateur fighter and you have to compete with it you better get some time in with it. Put your hours in getting used to the headgear and i mean for extended periods of time during HARD conditioning and the such too.
People used to laugh at me cause I’d do my conditioning after Muay Thai with my mouthguard, headgear, and shinguards on. But you don’t realize how “heavy” they feel till you wear them in fatigue. Also headgear gets fucking HOT. You’re under hot ass lights (I fought at a songkran(sp?) festival in hollywood once and that as under the fucking california summer sun…Imagine how hot that was) you’re wearing a leather fucking helmet. Headgear gets hot as fuck. It’ll fatigue you much faster if you’re not used to it.
IMO headgear doesn’t help all that much as far as concussive force especially if your partner is landing with bad intentions. if they’re wearing anything lower than 16s (and depending on their body weight or how hard they hit) I might slip on the headgear. Some guys don’t have very good control or they just get a little excited and will smack you with a good one so headgear provides a little buffer but not that much. Really I just like it because it helps with cuts and bruises. But as someone mentioned before. It creates very very bad habits. I noticed that the guys who wear headgear a lot tend to have shit head movement, and actually carry their hands a little lower than normal.
Now that said… If you balance the time you spend with the headgear on practicing head movement with your coach and doing light sparring without it then you’ll be fine. It takes a balance of both and recognizing that you may develop problems when using headgear exclusively. So you take the time to balance both and you’re fine.
take home points
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Another possible reason you may want to consider using headgear is when sparring with people that are much much better than you. If you’re not wearing headgear, chances are you’ll develop nasty habits if they keep hitting you hard, such as getting punch shy and “dingo-ing” as we call it over here (covering up/crawling up your own asshole).
Conversely however, over reliance on headguards will probably instill bad habits like not enough head movement. It’s all about striking a balance IMO.[/quote]
Lack of head movement is from having a bad trainer, not using headgear. Headgear is a training tool, if people have bad head movement they’ll have it with or without headgear.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Oh and by the way, tell your brother he can only make fun of you when karate fighters find an answer for the jab. ;)[/quote]
LYOTO MACHIDA
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Another possible reason you may want to consider using headgear is when sparring with people that are much much better than you. If you’re not wearing headgear, chances are you’ll develop nasty habits if they keep hitting you hard, such as getting punch shy and “dingo-ing” as we call it over here (covering up/crawling up your own asshole).
Conversely however, over reliance on headguards will probably instill bad habits like not enough head movement. It’s all about striking a balance IMO.[/quote]
Lack of head movement is from having a bad trainer, not using headgear. Headgear is a training tool, if people have bad head movement they’ll have it with or without headgear. [/quote]
THIS IS TRUE
I used to wear headgear when I first started but I took it off because I felt it screwed up my vision a bit and just didn’t like the feel, plus if you can take a hit during sparring you can take a hit in a real fight.
[quote]Nate112 wrote:
I used to wear headgear when I first started but I took it off because I felt it screwed up my vision a bit and just didn’t like the feel, plus if you can take a hit during sparring you can take a hit in a real fight.[/quote]
That last part of your statement is not necessarily true.
Yea adrenaline is a motherfucker… For the most part i HATE checking kicks in sparring (shin 2 shin). But in a fight? I don’t even feel that shit till like 2 days after the fight. I got jumped and hit with a beer bottle by a guy fairly bigger than me in the back of my head… it sent me flying lol but i wasn’t even close to being injured… w/o the adrenaline rush i know i would have been out COLD.
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Another possible reason you may want to consider using headgear is when sparring with people that are much much better than you. If you’re not wearing headgear, chances are you’ll develop nasty habits if they keep hitting you hard, such as getting punch shy and “dingo-ing” as we call it over here (covering up/crawling up your own asshole).
Conversely however, over reliance on headguards will probably instill bad habits like not enough head movement. It’s all about striking a balance IMO.[/quote]
Lack of head movement is from having a bad trainer, not using headgear. Headgear is a training tool, if people have bad head movement they’ll have it with or without headgear. [/quote]
I disagree. Unless you’re a professional fighter or you pay exorbitant amounts for private lessons your trainer isn’t watching you 100% of the time. You can develop a shitload of bad habits from working on your own.
Just look at MMA there a ton of guys that have excellent coaches but will still do shit like put their head down and swing an overhand right without covering up an then get knee’d in the face.
Cub Swanson for instance.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Another possible reason you may want to consider using headgear is when sparring with people that are much much better than you. If you’re not wearing headgear, chances are you’ll develop nasty habits if they keep hitting you hard, such as getting punch shy and “dingo-ing” as we call it over here (covering up/crawling up your own asshole).
Conversely however, over reliance on headguards will probably instill bad habits like not enough head movement. It’s all about striking a balance IMO.[/quote]
Lack of head movement is from having a bad trainer, not using headgear. Headgear is a training tool, if people have bad head movement they’ll have it with or without headgear. [/quote]
I disagree. Unless you’re a professional fighter or you pay exorbitant amounts for private lessons your trainer isn’t watching you 100% of the time. You can develop a shitload of bad habits from working on your own.
Just look at MMA there a ton of guys that have excellent coaches but will still do shit like put their head down and swing an overhand right without covering up an then get knee’d in the face.
Cub Swanson for instance. [/quote]
I totally agree on that point. I also believe that if you’re not wearing headgear, you’ll try harder to evade the strikes aimed at you. If you know you’re gonna feel something, you’re gonna try and avoid it.
Headgear gives you a false sense of security.(like a weightlifting belt?)
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]Nate112 wrote:
I used to wear headgear when I first started but I took it off because I felt it screwed up my vision a bit and just didn’t like the feel, plus if you can take a hit during sparring you can take a hit in a real fight.[/quote]
That last part of your statement is not necessarily true. [/quote]
haha, I don’t mean all the time, but it helps train you a lot more than having headgear on, also I don’t think headgear really does that much but help prevent cuts like Fighting Irish said.
I think we’re all basically agreeing on the same shit just saying it a different way lol
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
I think we’re all basically agreeing on the same shit just saying it a different way lol[/quote]
For real…I’ve noticed that since the first page. I think everything has been covered with this issue. It’s not overly complicated.