It’s settled then, hardgainers are actually just pussies or they need steroids.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
christine wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Some people with extremely fast metabolisms may need to take in over 4,000cals a day just to see any weight gain.
So wouldnt that make that person a “hardgainer” as compared to someone who can see muscle gain on a 3,000 calorie diet? Because its ‘harder’ to eat 4,000 cals a day than 3,000?
So, the “hardgainer” has to eat more caloric dense, possibly more enjoyable food, and has more options of what to eat than another person.
And then they whine and bitch about it?
Bunch of wimps if you ask me.
So the “hardgainer” has to forcefeed themselves, especially when they arent hungry, to the point that they dont even enjoy “more enjoyable food” anymore.
So the “hardgainer” has to budget significantly more towards their diet, particularly difficult when they have a limited income.
So the “hardgainer”, while still eating more, may still have to be super strict lest they gain significant fat in exchange for marginal muscle gains.
I dont consider myself a hardgainer; I also dont feel the need to talk shit about people on the other side of the fence just because I think the grass “may” look greener on their side.
[/quote]
The point is that both sides of the fence have their advantages and disadvantages. Some people need to eat more to gain, others need to watch what they eat more closely and will put on fat more easily. The “hardgainers” always complain about needing to eat so much, while the FFB’s complain that the “hardgainers” are lucky because they can eat whatever they want.
Everyone can find an excuse as to why they “can’t” reach their goals if they look. It’s the people who refuse to make excuses and just do what they need to do that actually reach their goals/progress.
Also, it’s not more expensive to eat more calories. It’s actually more expensive to eat fewer more nutritious calories. Yes, trying to eat perfectly clean and eating that many calories is expensive and difficult. The advantage to having a fast metabolism though is that you don’t have to worry so much about always eating clean.
A “Big Mac”, order or french fries and Sprite from McDonalds cost what, maybe 6 bucks and has 909 calories in it. I make myself a shake in the mornings that consists of egg whites, oats, cashews, protein powder, ice, milk and either fruit or splenda/stevia. It’s got about 950 calories and since I buy the ingredients needed for it in bulk, it costs me probably somewhere around 3 bucks a shake (if that).
My point is that if you really look and stop making excuses why you “can’t” eat enough, you’ll find ways.
And by the way, I have a very fast metabolism (like Prof X) and have to eat more than some people I know to gain. But that hasn’t stopped me from putting on 50+ lbs of muscle from where I started. I stopped telling myself that I was a “hardgainer” a long time ago, and at this point, no one would think I were one to look at me.
There’s an old saying that goes, “the more I train, eat and sleep, the better my genetics get.” I think that pretty much sums up the vast majority of cases.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
christine wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Some people with extremely fast metabolisms may need to take in over 4,000cals a day just to see any weight gain.
So wouldnt that make that person a “hardgainer” as compared to someone who can see muscle gain on a 3,000 calorie diet? Because its ‘harder’ to eat 4,000 cals a day than 3,000?
So, the “hardgainer” has to eat more caloric dense, possibly more enjoyable food, and has more options of what to eat than another person.
And then they whine and bitch about it?
Bunch of wimps if you ask me.
So the “hardgainer” has to forcefeed themselves, especially when they arent hungry, to the point that they dont even enjoy “more enjoyable food” anymore.
So the “hardgainer” has to budget significantly more towards their diet, particularly difficult when they have a limited income.
So the “hardgainer”, while still eating more, may still have to be super strict lest they gain significant fat in exchange for marginal muscle gains.
I dont consider myself a hardgainer; I also dont feel the need to talk shit about people on the other side of the fence just because I think the grass “may” look greener on their side.
The point is that both sides of the fence have their advantages and disadvantages. Some people need to eat more to gain, others need to watch what they eat more closely and will put on fat more easily. The “hardgainers” always complain about needing to eat so much, while the FFB’s complain that the “hardgainers” are lucky because they can eat whatever they want.
[/quote]
Exactly. So why dont we have people starting threads about how “Endomorphs dont exist! Its just a matter of burning enough calories and if you need to do more energy systems work that doesnt mean you’re an endomorph that just means you’re a pussy who doesnt work hard enough!”?
There’s a difference between admitting what your situation is and using it as an excuse. Just a few posts ago Zap said “I am a hardgainer therefore I forcefeed myself when I need to.”
Wow, someone considers themselves a hardgainer and uses it as motivation instead of an excuse. Imagine that, Professor X. Imagine that.
Yes, once your body is accustomed to that level of intake, sure.
I’m not making any excuses. I’m taking issue with the fact that people want to claim that a certain type of difficulty simply does not exist just because they dont deem it viable.
Congrats.
[quote]
There’s an old saying that goes, “the more I train, eat and sleep, the better my genetics get.” I think that pretty much sums up the vast majority of cases.[/quote]
Very true.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Exactly. So why dont we have people starting threads about how “Endomorphs dont exist! Its just a matter of burning enough calories and if you need to do more energy systems work that doesnt mean you’re an endomorph that just means you’re a pussy who doesnt work hard enough!”?[/quote]
Wow, I’ve specifically made posts about how worrying about your specific body type makes little sense or even worrying about your specific number for a body fat percentage when you are a rank beginner. That is because an untrained body doesn’t indicate well how someone GAINS weight in terms of muscle mass. I was a skinny kid. Does that make me an “ectomorph”? It should if we are going by how we all look before we ever lifted anything, right?
[quote]Wow, someone considers themselves a hardgainer and uses it as motivation instead of an excuse. Imagine that, Professor X. Imagine that.
[/quote]
I think you missed his point…clearly.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
There are many people who may not be as smart as their general physician. Does that mean they should call themselves “mentally challenged”?
[/quote]
Are you a conservative republican? They’re the other people I see so often who must speak in extremes in order to make a point. In terms of bodybuilding, I’m not talking about “as compared to Ronnie Coleman”, and in terms of learning/intelligence I wouldnt be talking about “as compared to the valedictorian of MIT”.
But sure, if you want to make the analogy, there are some kids who have a harder time learning than others. So, yes, you could have someone in regular highschool classes who requires extra tutoring to be a “hardlearner”, especially in comparison to a student who puts in a moderate amount of effort and gets better grades. Hell, we could even call the kid who has to study two full nights before a test (just to get a passing score) a “hardtester”, as compared to the average person who just shows up to class and passes tests.
But, to get back on topic, apparently you cant grasp the nuance of the concept of “harder to”. Its either “impossible” or “not impossible.” As sento said, some people have a hard time losing weight, others have a hard time gaining muscle. Why is this such a difficult concept?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Exactly. So why dont we have people starting threads about how “Endomorphs dont exist! Its just a matter of burning enough calories and if you need to do more energy systems work that doesnt mean you’re an endomorph that just means you’re a pussy who doesnt work hard enough!”?
Wow, I’ve specifically made posts about how worrying about your specific body type makes little sense or even worrying about your specific number for a body fat percentage when you are a rank beginner. That is because an untrained body doesn’t indicate well how someone GAINS weight in terms of muscle mass. I was a skinny kid. Does that make me an “ectomorph”? It should if we are going by we all look before we ever lifted anything, right?[/quote]
Yes, it means you were an ectomorph (or “hardgainer”) who did what it took to build muscle.
On a personal note, have you ever been overweight? I don’t mean carrying some extra fat while gaining appreciable muscle in the process, I mean considered “a fat person”?
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Exactly. So why dont we have people starting threads about how “Endomorphs dont exist! Its just a matter of burning enough calories and if you need to do more energy systems work that doesnt mean you’re an endomorph that just means you’re a pussy who doesnt work hard enough!”?
Wow, I’ve specifically made posts about how worrying about your specific body type makes little sense or even worrying about your specific number for a body fat percentage when you are a rank beginner. That is because an untrained body doesn’t indicate well how someone GAINS weight in terms of muscle mass. I was a skinny kid. Does that make me an “ectomorph”? It should if we are going by we all look before we ever lifted anything, right?
Yes, it means you were an ectomorph (or “hardgainer”) who did what it took to build muscle.
On a personal note, have you ever been overweight? I don’t mean carrying some extra fat while gaining appreciable muscle in the process, I mean considered “a fat person”?[/quote]
No, I haven’t. If I was ever carrying a greater amount of body fat, it was strictly because I went a little overboard in bulking up and should have cut back on some of the excess calories. I also lose weight pretty easily even though I have not been below 8-10% body fat in my life (because that has not been a priority to me until recently). I also would NOT call myself an ectomorph. In fact, most people on the planet are a combination of different body types, not one specifically.
Dieted down, I would probably look like a mesomorph to most people while some might say I have “endomorph” tendencies when bulked up at my heaviest body weight. Both would be wrong to some degree.
I think many of your assumptions are wrong and I think this is because your overall experience is limited.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
christine wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
A “Big Mac”, order or french fries and Sprite from McDonalds cost what, maybe 6 bucks and has 909 calories in it. I make myself a shake in the mornings that consists of egg whites, oats, cashews, protein powder, ice, milk and either fruit or splenda/stevia. It’s got about 950 calories and since I buy the ingredients needed for it in bulk, it costs me probably somewhere around 3 bucks a shake (if that).[/quote]
Exactly!! We are the fattest nation in the world and people actually complain they cant eat enough??? Christ, McDonalds is cheap and everywhere and full of muscle building calories. I can eat 3 big macs and wash it all down with some milk for lunch. That right there is about 90grams of protein - protein and food are the easy part, you just gotta work at it. Lots of people are just too lazy to cook meals for the next day, instead, they bitch. Bitch about this, bitch about that.
Rant over…
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
There are many people who may not be as smart as their general physician. Does that mean they should call themselves “mentally challenged”?
Are you a conservative republican? They’re the other people I see so often who must speak in extremes in order to make a point. In terms of bodybuilding, I’m not talking about “as compared to Ronnie Coleman”, and in terms of learning/intelligence I wouldnt be talking about “as compared to the valedictorian of MIT”.
But sure, if you want to make the analogy, there are some kids who have a harder time learning than others. So, yes, you could have someone in regular highschool classes who requires extra tutoring to be a “hardlearner”, especially in comparison to a student who puts in a moderate amount of effort and gets better grades. Hell, we could even call the kid who has to study two full nights before a test (just to get a passing score) a “hardtester”, as compared to the average person who just shows up to class and passes tests.
But, to get back on topic, apparently you cant grasp the nuance of the concept of “harder to”. Its either “impossible” or “not impossible.” As sento said, some people have a hard time losing weight, others have a hard time gaining muscle. Why is this such a difficult concept?[/quote]
The concept isn’t difficult…other than the one you seem to not be able to grasp about the damage done by negative labels.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
It’s settled then, hardgainers are actually just pussies or they need steroids.
[/quote]
Please send some.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
There are many people who may not be as smart as their general physician. Does that mean they should call themselves “mentally challenged”?
Are you a conservative republican? …[/quote]
lol
What have I started…
[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
christine wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
A “Big Mac”, order or french fries and Sprite from McDonalds cost what, maybe 6 bucks and has 909 calories in it. I make myself a shake in the mornings that consists of egg whites, oats, cashews, protein powder, ice, milk and either fruit or splenda/stevia. It’s got about 950 calories and since I buy the ingredients needed for it in bulk, it costs me probably somewhere around 3 bucks a shake (if that).
Exactly!! We are the fattest nation in the world and people actually complain they cant eat enough??? Christ, McDonalds is cheap and everywhere and full of muscle building calories. I can eat 3 big macs and wash it all down with some milk for lunch. That right there is about 90grams of protein - protein and food are the easy part, you just gotta work at it. Lots of people are just too lazy to cook meals for the next day, instead, they bitch. Bitch about this, bitch about that.
Rant over…[/quote]
Yeah but whether bodybuilding or not, I want to remain healthy. Hence, no fast food for me.
BTW, although I’ve already stated my case on this thread, you’ll never hear me complain about not being able to eat enough. At one point I was force feeding myself every couple of hours and it sucked. Eventually I found myself getting hungry every couple hours. Now if I go 3 hours without eating I feel like I’m starving. It’s amazing how the body adapts.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
christine wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
A “Big Mac”, order or french fries and Sprite from McDonalds cost what, maybe 6 bucks and has 909 calories in it. I make myself a shake in the mornings that consists of egg whites, oats, cashews, protein powder, ice, milk and either fruit or splenda/stevia. It’s got about 950 calories and since I buy the ingredients needed for it in bulk, it costs me probably somewhere around 3 bucks a shake (if that).
Exactly!! We are the fattest nation in the world and people actually complain they cant eat enough??? Christ, McDonalds is cheap and everywhere and full of muscle building calories. I can eat 3 big macs and wash it all down with some milk for lunch. That right there is about 90grams of protein - protein and food are the easy part, you just gotta work at it. Lots of people are just too lazy to cook meals for the next day, instead, they bitch. Bitch about this, bitch about that.
Rant over…
Yeah but whether bodybuilding or not, I want to remain healthy. Hence, no fast food for me.
BTW, although I’ve already stated my case on this thread, you’ll never hear me complain about not being able to eat enough. At one point I was force feeding myself every couple of hours and it sucked. Eventually I found myself getting hungry every couple hours. Now if I go 3 hours without eating I feel like I’m starving. It’s amazing how the body adapts.[/quote]
I experienced the same which is why all of the complaining makes no sense. Yes, I felt stuffed sometimes. That also went away in time. Now, I can barely make it more than 3 hours without feeling like I’m starving. Your body is adaptive…so pick a goal and stick to it even if it means working harder.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I experienced the same which is why all of the complaining makes no sense. Yes, I felt stuffed sometimes. That also went away in time. Now, I can barely make it more than 3 hours without feeling like I’m starving. Your body is adaptive…so pick a goal and stick to it even if it means working harder.[/quote]
Welcome to something we call a community. One of the things that comes with it is that people complain about what they find difficult for them.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I experienced the same which is why all of the complaining makes no sense. Yes, I felt stuffed sometimes. That also went away in time. Now, I can barely make it more than 3 hours without feeling like I’m starving. Your body is adaptive…so pick a goal and stick to it even if it means working harder.
Welcome to something we call a community. One of the things that comes with it is that people complain about what they find difficult for them. [/quote]
That wasn’t what I was referring to. I have actually seen advice given to newbies that they shouldn’t eat more if they feel a little uncomfortable regardless of if they are actually gaining muscle mass or not. I doubt you will find any truly large bodybuilders who will claim they didn’t force some food down from time to time to reach a goal.
Most of us have gone through that. We kept on going because we knew what we wanted.
The fundamental argument you’re presenting, Prof, is “Since I overcame the problem its not really a problem.” Since you started out as an ectomorph and had the resources to eat enough and a fast enough metabolism that you didnt gain ridiculous amounts of fat, you overcame being a hardgainer.
I stand by the fact that, notwithstanding, you nor anyone else has the right to judge someone else for the difficulties they find in whatever endeavor they’re undertaking. What if they cant allow enough of a budget to “eat big”? What if they have a slow metabolism and eating enough to gain muscle means either gaining a ton of fat or having to eat super strict (there’s a big difference between forcing a big mac down your throat and forcing a plate of broccoli)? What if they have an anxiety disorder that causes them to have elevated levels of cortisol, thus hindering muscle growth?
While none of these are excuses as to why someone “cant” do it, they are reasonable points as to why it may be difficult for them to do it. Yes, every problem has a solution, but that doesnt mean the problem doesnt exist.
Here’s me playing the world’s smallest violin…
…Anyhoo, who the hell sits around justifying their failure all day if they actually want to achieve something?
If you want to be small and weak, go ahead. Your perception of what is “hard” can change very quickly if you actually apply some effort and consistency.
Some things in life are actually hard; eating lots of food and feeling sick is not one of them.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
christine wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
A “Big Mac”, order or french fries and Sprite from McDonalds cost what, maybe 6 bucks and has 909 calories in it. I make myself a shake in the mornings that consists of egg whites, oats, cashews, protein powder, ice, milk and either fruit or splenda/stevia. It’s got about 950 calories and since I buy the ingredients needed for it in bulk, it costs me probably somewhere around 3 bucks a shake (if that).
Exactly!! We are the fattest nation in the world and people actually complain they cant eat enough??? Christ, McDonalds is cheap and everywhere and full of muscle building calories. I can eat 3 big macs and wash it all down with some milk for lunch. That right there is about 90grams of protein - protein and food are the easy part, you just gotta work at it. Lots of people are just too lazy to cook meals for the next day, instead, they bitch. Bitch about this, bitch about that.
Rant over…
Yeah but whether bodybuilding or not, I want to remain healthy. Hence, no fast food for me.
BTW, although I’ve already stated my case on this thread, you’ll never hear me complain about not being able to eat enough. At one point I was force feeding myself every couple of hours and it sucked. Eventually I found myself getting hungry every couple hours. Now if I go 3 hours without eating I feel like I’m starving. It’s amazing how the body adapts.[/quote]
I understand what you mean, but one meal wont kill you. 3 fast food meals once a week wont kill you. By working out and eating healthy most of the time, you are far ahead of the rest of the population who should probably avoid fast food. You are way healthier than them, even if you do have a little chub on you from eating too much Pizza Hut. So “health” shouldnt be a concern from a couple cheat meals.
Dont sweat it anyway. You will have a hard time gaining weight eating clean all the time too. It’s 2 steps forward, 1 step back game.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< What if they have an anxiety disorder that causes them to have elevated levels of cortisol, thus hindering muscle growth? >>>[/quote]
You gotta be kiddin with this one.
What if a straggling piece of skylab hits them in their bathtub?
What if a large predatory animal escapes from a nearby zoo and consumes one of their limbs?
What if someone digs up a nude photograph of Barbara Mikulski and leaves them cowering in a padded cell for life?
Come on man, we can talk about this and all the exceptions til the swallows come back to Capistrano and the simple fact will remain that 99 out of every hundred people that show up here complaining about lack of progress are just not working hard enough or eating enough or both.