Hardgainers Don't Exist

Training Bodybuilding
101

I see the root of this problem as being the same one as with the term ‘‘overtraining’’. People will often look at a word and define it’s meaning solely based on its composition.

In the case of overtraining they see ‘‘over’’ and ‘‘training’’ so they immediately equate ‘‘overtraining’’ with ‘‘training too much’’, which is not the case.

‘‘Overtraining’’ is

  1. A physiological state
  2. Brought on by a chronic amount of physical, psychological and environmental stress (training and non-training related) exceeding the body’s capacity to cope with stress
  3. That leads to a sustained decrease in physical performance

In that sense, ‘‘overtraining’’ is pretty much like clinical depression and burnout. It is NOT the action of doing too much training… but rather a form of ‘‘illness’’.

If you train like a madman and are tired for 2-3 days… you are not overtraining.

If you feel drained and lack motivation BUT after 3-5 days of rest you are back on track you were NOT overtraining.

A REAL overtraining state takes MONTHS of excessive stress to develop and can take even longer to cure.

We can apply the same logic to the term ‘‘hardgainer’’. People will see the term and will automatically think of it as ‘‘hard’’ and ‘‘gainer’’ and will define the term as someone who has a hard time gaining muscle and strength OR as someone who has to work extra hard to gain.

This is not the case. A real hardgainer is a condition, kinda like overtraining is a physiological state. A real hardgainer is the exact opposite of a genetic muscle freak. A true hardgainer is someone who, for some physiological reason, just cannot gain a significant amount of muscle.

These people can train harder than everybody, eat a ton of food and take the best supplements, they will get very little gains (if any). But as I mentioned this is because of a physiological condition which could include:

  • Naturally very low levels of anabolic hormones (tesosterone, IGF-1, growth hormone)
  • Androgenic receptor insensitivity (they can thus have a normal level of anabolic hormones, but not be very responsive to it)
  • Naturally high level of cortisol
  • Naturally high level of catecholamines
  • Low levels of digestive enzymes/reduced capacity to absorb food
  • Dismal level of fast-twitch fibers (I’m talking 80-90% slow-twitch fibers here)
  • etc.

But true hardgainers, just like genetic freaks are an extreme rarity, less than 1% of the population.

SURE among the ‘‘normal’’ crowd some will have the capacity to grow faster than others, but even those who grow more slowly should rarely categorize themselves as hardgainers.

102

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
A real hardgainer is the exact opposite of a genetic muscle freak. A true hardgainer is someone who, for some physiological reason, just cannot gain a significant amount of muscle.

These people can train harder than everybody, eat a ton of food and take the best supplements, they will get very little gains (if any).[/quote]

This is great, because think of the implications of this. If you really are a hardgainer by CT’s definition, you might as well give up on this game. Seriously, it’s just not worth the sacrifice and discipline. Take up golf. It will be much more rewarding and less frustrating.

103

Personally, I don’t believe many people should even lift weights. That’s not nice and humanitarian, but like I said in a thread long ago-

Fuck the masses.

Back to the issue, I thank CT. Newbs won’t listen to the likes of us, but when an author comes on here and repeats our shit, then they’ll listen.

104

I personally believe that being a hardgainer is a response to stress. It’s no secret that stress can make people gain or lose weight, so it seems likely to me that the reason so many guys can’t get bigger is that they’re often trying to balance work, family, school, sports, etc. and the only real benefit they get from the gym is having a place to chill out, do something simple, and not turn into a total fucking neurotic.

105

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
<<< SURE among the ‘‘normal’’ crowd some will have the capacity to grow faster than others, but even those who grow more slowly should rarely categorize themselves as hardgainers.[/quote]

And, in the VAAAAST majority of cases the guy who busts his ass and learns the rules will out achieve, in the long run, even the more innately gifted guy who does not.

106

Basically all people who do HIT call themselves hard gainers, because they undertrain, do LOW effort/power/strength/intensity reps, and after doing the intently slow reps basically marathon runners training, they then go to failure. Hard but very unproductive for muscle growth, and strength.

Or two people love to try and stay cut up and add muscle, it just does not work, you need to eat clean, very big time.

Wayne

107

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
But true hardgainers, just like genetic freaks are an extreme rarity, less than 1% of the population.[/quote]

On what basis do you make this statement? Is it based on your own anecdotal observation of your trainees, etc?

108

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
<<< All I’m saying is that I believe as much as there are genetic freaks out there, there are people on the opposite end of the spectrum. They are hardgainers. >>>

Ok, fair enough on these people existing. I was going to say can we call them something else, but whatever term comes to mean “I’m genetically cursed” will likely be seized upon to explain why people are not making progress and don’t wanna be huge.[/quote]

Exactly, the term used doesn’t really matter. Either way the term will be used as an excuse.

And someone else might have said this earlier but, if someone truly believes they are a hardgainer, why train in the first place?

109

[quote]Wimpy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
But true hardgainers, just like genetic freaks are an extreme rarity, less than 1% of the population.

On what basis do you make this statement? Is it based on your own anecdotal observation of your trainees, etc?[/quote]

I am sure he counted each and every one of them. That’s what I’d do.

110

if your smart you’d know that most people are lying and lazy but there are the very few ECTOMORPHS/HARDGAINERS out there. i say that im a hardgainer but i dont say its impossible to build muscle at all i gained 10 lbs in the past year and a half on a 6’5 bird-boned frame, its not impossible just harder.

also if you were so smart with all your research being spit out youd realize the other factors to consider such as cortisol output and other hormones such as T3 (metabolite hormone). We’re here but some are more dedicated than others

111

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wimpy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
But true hardgainers, just like genetic freaks are an extreme rarity, less than 1% of the population.

On what basis do you make this statement? Is it based on your own anecdotal observation of your trainees, etc?

I am sure he counted each and every one of them. That’s what I’d do.[/quote]

Mind if we cross-check our lists, we both may have missed a few.

112

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Wimpy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
But true hardgainers, just like genetic freaks are an extreme rarity, less than 1% of the population.

On what basis do you make this statement? Is it based on your own anecdotal observation of your trainees, etc?

I am sure he counted each and every one of them. That’s what I’d do.

Mind if we cross-check our lists, we both may have missed a few.[/quote]

I’m only half way through Manhattan. At least give me a chance to get through the upper northeast.

Sheesh!

113

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Wimpy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
But true hardgainers, just like genetic freaks are an extreme rarity, less than 1% of the population.

On what basis do you make this statement? Is it based on your own anecdotal observation of your trainees, etc?

I am sure he counted each and every one of them. That’s what I’d do.

Mind if we cross-check our lists, we both may have missed a few.

I’m only half way through Manhattan. At least give me a chance to get through the upper northeast.

Sheesh![/quote]

C’mon man, you’re spending way too much time on these forums… it’s cutting into this important work!

114

[quote]Wimpy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
But true hardgainers, just like genetic freaks are an extreme rarity, less than 1% of the population.

On what basis do you make this statement? Is it based on your own anecdotal observation of your trainees, etc?[/quote]

Look, this is how it is.

For the overwhelmingly vast majority of people taking a stab at weight training their problems are between their ears. Not in their muscles. Until that is grasped, embraced and overcome nothing anybody says on any website will make the slightest difference.

115

so from the OP you could basically say a hard gainer is someone who hasn’t found the right type of training or prep or recovery for them yet. /thread.

116

ima hardgainer!

lol…

117

This is a really pathetic thread. It’s basically a group therapy session for all the alpha males out there that feed off their sense that they have worked so much harder than all the rest, and so that is why they have the bodies they do.

Well for me what is more annoying than the average Joe who labels himself as a hardgainer when he hasn’t ever stepped into a squat rack, doesn’t eat +6 meals a day, has never used a scale to weigh out his foods, and has only been training for a couple months, etc., etc., is the Alpha Male with +17" arms who claims hardgainers don’t exist. It is really astounding.

Now I’m willing to listen to their claims (as stated in my previous paragraph) about how far too many people cling to the hardgainer label, but I find it hard to believe they are unwilling to listen to our claims when we say that hardgainers do exist. Here’s why:

First of all, a hardgainer CAN gain weight. It is just very “hard” for them. If we were saying they couldn’t gain weight/muscle, we would be calling them “nogainers or impossiblegainers”. So you’re absolutely right when you say that everyone is capable of changing their physique. But that is not the argument of the hardgainers, it is the fact that they have a “hard time gaining muscle” (ie. to even gain half the mass another guy gains (if they can even gain it) they have to work much harder, be more stricter, etc. etc.).

Now as you all will probably admit, there are some very genetically gifted people out there in the physique category (don’t worry, I won’t single any of you out). Few people will argue against that point. Most things in nature occur in bell curves–there are a lot of people in the middle and few on either side. Notice that either means “both” or “two” sides. Bell curves are never one sided. So that means that while there will be genetically gifted people (few though they be) there will also be just a few hardgainers out there (and I truly think there are just a few). But out of the millions of people in Manhattan, we’re not just talking about 5 people. Let’s be realistic here.

So here are some examples of the diversity the human physique has–because you all who promote the “hardgainers don’t exist” theory would have us beleive that anyone can attain the body they want so therefore differences in genetic makeup don’t matter.

What about the two guys from the same gymnastics team who essentially train and diet the same way for years but one is jacked and the other just looks marginally athletic?

What about the guy at the gym who always lifts a ton and is built like a brickhouse next to the other guy who lifts a ton but is much more defined and and had a totally different body type? Try as they may, they will never truly change places with each other physiquewise.

What about your workout partner who lifts just like you but his arms or pecs never seem to get like yours?

What about you yourself who probably has a bodypart you wish were larger but just can’t seem to get it there like the Joe standing beside you? Why can’t you?

What about the difference in people from one race vs. the other?

So you see, if there are already so many differences in people who HAVE acheived abundant muscle gains, why wouldn’t it be possible to see differences between the ability of people to gain muscle?? It’s not rocket science here guys.

The problem is that most guys who complain about the hardgainer label are in reality trying to protect their own image. Because they are clinging on to a false sense of security that they are somehow better than the rest because they have “worked harder” than the others at the gym, and so that is why they have the body that they do. Admitting that hardgainers exist means admitting that there are people (and you might be one of them–oops!) who in reality are big because, well, they’ve just got the genetics for it but really haven’t “put in their time” any more than the other guy. That would be a blow to the core for these guys who have been using their physiques to cover up their insecurities all these years.

Hardgainers do exist, and so do averagegainers and so do easygainers. Get over it.

118

[quote]ectolifter wrote:
This is a really pathetic thread. It’s basically a group therapy session for all the alpha males out there that feed off their sense that they have worked so much harder than all the rest, and so that is why they have the bodies they do.

Well for me what is more annoying than the average Joe who labels himself as a hardgainer when he hasn’t ever stepped into a squat rack, doesn’t eat +6 meals a day, has never used a scale to weigh out his foods, and has only been training for a couple months, etc., etc., is the Alpha Male with +17" arms who claims hardgainers don’t exist. It is really astounding.

Now I’m willing to listen to their claims (as stated in my previous paragraph) about how far too many people cling to the hardgainer label, but I find it hard to believe they are
unwilling to listen to our claims when we say that hardgainers do exist. Here’s why:

First of all, a hardgainer CAN gain weight. It is just very “hard” for them. If we were saying they couldn’t gain weight/muscle, we would be calling them “nogainers or impossiblegainers”. So you’re absolutely right when you say that everyone is capable of changing their physique. But that is not the argument of the hardgainers, it is the fact that they have a “hard time gaining muscle” (ie. to even gain half the mass another guy gains (if they can even gain it) they have to work much harder, be more stricter, etc. etc.).

Now as you all will probably admit, there are some very genetically gifted people out there in the physique category (don’t worry, I won’t single any of you out). Few people will argue against that point. Most things in nature occur in bell curves–there are a lot of people in the middle and few on either side. Notice that either means “both” or “two” sides. Bell curves are never one sided. So that means that while there will be genetically gifted people (few though they be) there will also be just a few hardgainers out there (and I truly think there are just a few). But out of the millions of people in Manhattan, we’re not just talking about 5 people. Let’s be realistic here.

So here are some examples of the diversity the human physique has–because you all who promote the “hardgainers don’t exist” theory would have us beleive that anyone can attain the body they want so therefore differences in genetic makeup don’t matter.

What about the two guys from the same gymnastics team who essentially train and diet the same way for years but one is jacked and the other just looks marginally athletic?

What about the guy at the gym who always lifts a ton and is built like a brickhouse next to the other guy who lifts a ton but is much more defined and and had a totally different body type? Try as they may, they will never truly change places with each other physiquewise.

What about your workout partner who lifts just like you but his arms or pecs never seem to get like yours?

What about you yourself who probably has a bodypart you wish were larger but just can’t seem to get it there like the Joe standing beside you? Why can’t you?

What about the difference in people from one race vs. the other?

So you see, if there are already so many differences in people who HAVE acheived abundant muscle gains, why wouldn’t it be possible to see differences between the ability of people to gain muscle?? It’s not rocket science here guys.

The problem is that most guys who complain about the hardgainer label are in reality trying to protect their own image. Because they are clinging on to a false sense of security that they are somehow better than the rest because they have “worked harder” than the others at the gym, and so that is why they have the body that they do. Admitting that hardgainers exist means admitting that there are people (and you might be one of them–oops!) who in reality are big because, well, they’ve just got the genetics for it but really haven’t “put in their time” any more than the other guy. That would be a blow to the core for these guys who have been using their physiques to cover up their insecurities all these years.

Hardgainers do exist, and so do averagegainers and so do easygainers. Get over it.[/quote]

while i really doubt anyone would argue the factthat some people have an easier time than others, it has become an excuse.
“I’ve been lifting for 2 years and have put on 10 lbs of muscle. Well that’s good for me, I’m a hardgainer” rather than “I have to work harder/lift more/eat more than the other guys so fuck it i’m gonna have to do that.”

It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

also you seem to be pretty jealous. maybe you should think before labeling others as insecure.

119

[quote]ectolifter wrote:
This is a really pathetic thread. It’s basically a group therapy session for all the alpha males out there that feed off their sense that they have worked so much harder than all the rest, and so that is why they have the bodies they do.

Well for me what is more annoying than the average Joe who labels himself as a hardgainer when he hasn’t ever stepped into a squat rack, doesn’t eat +6 meals a day, has never used a scale to weigh out his foods, and has only been training for a couple months, etc., etc., is the Alpha Male with +17" arms who claims hardgainers don’t exist. It is really astounding.

Now I’m willing to listen to their claims (as stated in my previous paragraph) about how far too many people cling to the hardgainer label, but I find it hard to believe they are unwilling to listen to our claims when we say that hardgainers do exist. Here’s why:

First of all, a hardgainer CAN gain weight. It is just very “hard” for them. If we were saying they couldn’t gain weight/muscle, we would be calling them “nogainers or impossiblegainers”. So you’re absolutely right when you say that everyone is capable of changing their physique. But that is not the argument of the hardgainers, it is the fact that they have a “hard time gaining muscle” (ie. to even gain half the mass another guy gains (if they can even gain it) they have to work much harder, be more stricter, etc. etc.).

Now as you all will probably admit, there are some very genetically gifted people out there in the physique category (don’t worry, I won’t single any of you out). Few people will argue against that point. Most things in nature occur in bell curves–there are a lot of people in the middle and few on either side. Notice that either means “both” or “two” sides. Bell curves are never one sided. So that means that while there will be genetically gifted people (few though they be) there will also be just a few hardgainers out there (and I truly think there are just a few). But out of the millions of people in Manhattan, we’re not just talking about 5 people. Let’s be realistic here.

So here are some examples of the diversity the human physique has–because you all who promote the “hardgainers don’t exist” theory would have us beleive that anyone can attain the body they want so therefore differences in genetic makeup don’t matter.

What about the two guys from the same gymnastics team who essentially train and diet the same way for years but one is jacked and the other just looks marginally athletic?

What about the guy at the gym who always lifts a ton and is built like a brickhouse next to the other guy who lifts a ton but is much more defined and and had a totally different body type? Try as they may, they will never truly change places with each other physiquewise.

What about your workout partner who lifts just like you but his arms or pecs never seem to get like yours?

What about you yourself who probably has a bodypart you wish were larger but just can’t seem to get it there like the Joe standing beside you? Why can’t you?

What about the difference in people from one race vs. the other?

So you see, if there are already so many differences in people who HAVE acheived abundant muscle gains, why wouldn’t it be possible to see differences between the ability of people to gain muscle?? It’s not rocket science here guys.

The problem is that most guys who complain about the hardgainer label are in reality trying to protect their own image. Because they are clinging on to a false sense of security that they are somehow better than the rest because they have “worked harder” than the others at the gym, and so that is why they have the body that they do. Admitting that hardgainers exist means admitting that there are people (and you might be one of them–oops!) who in reality are big because, well, they’ve just got the genetics for it but really haven’t “put in their time” any more than the other guy. That would be a blow to the core for these guys who have been using their physiques to cover up their insecurities all these years.

Hardgainers do exist, and so do averagegainers and so do easygainers. Get over it.[/quote]

What a bunch of hypocritical elitist drivel.

Everyone who doesn’t use this as an excuse is “insecure”? Wow.

120

while i really doubt anyone would argue the factthat some people have an easier time than others, it has become an excuse.
“I’ve been lifting for 2 years and have put on 10 lbs of muscle. Well that’s good for me, I’m a hardgainer” rather than “I have to work harder/lift more/eat more than the other guys so fuck it i’m gonna have to do that.”

It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

also you seem to be pretty jealous. maybe you should think before labeling others as insecure.[/quote]

You’re exactly right, you have to work harder than others to gain muscle, so you’re just a hardgainer, it’s not that you can’t gain SOME muscle. But too many people use it as an excuse. The reason I defend the hardgainer truth, though, is because many other people on this thread won’t even acknowledge it’s existence. I don’t go around using me being a hardgainer as an excuse, but it can be really degrading when these big guys start ranting about how people like me need to work harder in the gym/diet, without ever having gone to the gym with me before or seeing what my diet is like, or how many years I’ve been training. I’m not going to just suck in their comments just because they are bigger than I–they are going to hear me defend my point.