Hardgainers Don't Exist

Training Bodybuilding
81

I agree with Megatron.Obviously bodytypes and metabolisms are different.You cant come down on everyone who has a hard time gaining.But on the other hand the main problem is that people may train hard,but not eat hard.Eating for size is a commitment in itself.Forcing food down is an art form.If you throw up in your mouth,swallow it back down…

Ive always had a huge appetite and gained weight easily.But Ive also been very direct about consuming calories.When I would put clients on a bulk cycle,they would tell me about eating tuna,egg whites,rice,etc.I would tell them to head to the golden arches and eat for real…lol

82

[quote]DSmolken wrote:
A few words in defense of labels.

Thinking of myself as a hardgainer helped me. It wouldn’t have been convincing to try to think of myself as “normal” or “like everyone else”. My weight never even hit 63 kilos before I started training at age 31 and I stand 178 cm. That kind of physique might have been “normal” at Auschwitz.

I didn’t use the label as an excuse for crappy results but as a constant reminder that I don’t have much room for excuses and need to work a lot harder than most people in the kitchen. I went from 62,5 to 88,5 kilos in my first year of lifting, so it seems to be working OK.[/quote]

You gained 26kg in your first year of lifting and you think you are a hardgainer?!

83

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
toddthebod wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i think the term slow-gainer and hard-gainer are interchangable. at least i can accept that without drugs the most mass i can put on in a month is a pound or two. i still go to the gym 4 times a week and bust my ass though because i know that even though 2 pounds at max is insignificant its the only way i can put on anything at all. so if i gain 12-24 lbs a year thats still 12-24 lbs a year. i gained 24 lbs from the last time i went to the doctor (went today so thats how i know) and i look dramatically different compared to then.

I’m sorry. I’m going to have to call you out on this one. Do you only weigh yourself once a year? As Berardi says, “If you aren’t assessing, you’re guessing.” Buy a scale, for crying out loud.

i weigh myself weekly. at the gym where they have a tiptronic scale (thats off) and at my work where theres a very accurate digital scale. [/quote]

Thank goodness. I guess I don’t understand your use of visits to the doctor as reference points for how much you gained. I mean, you could have just said, “I gained 24 lbs in the last year”; nobody is going to doubt that you know how to use a scale to weigh yourself.

And we don’t know how often you go to the doctor, so that’s not a terribly useful measure. I’m glad to hear you don’t wait for doctor’s visits to find out how much you weigh. That would be tragic.

84

When I started training, I didn’t even know the term hardgainer. I really believe the term hardgainer may just be an advertisement scheme. Think about if, if you just started working out and haven’t seen gains as quickly as you like (people are too impatient), and then you read in a muscle mag or online about “hardgainers”, you immediately fall into thinking you may be a hardgainer. This is what happened to me.

Once you believe you are a hardgainer, you fall into buying supplements, buying “the best workout program”, buying workout books by Stuart McRobert, etc. Yeah, there are people who gain slowER than others, but most will still gain. I believe supplement and magazine companies want as many people as they can to label themselves as hardgainers. It makes selling supplements a LOT easier. It takes someone (like Professor X) to slap you on the head and tell you to shut up and train/eat for you to learn to be patient, stick with it, and things will come eventually.

Oh and by “you”, I mean people in general, not necessarily anyone in particular on this forum.

Also, the guys who I go to college with who think they are hardgainers are comparing themselves to guys who have been lifting since early high school. Like Prof X said, it’s irrational to think yourself a hardgainer if you haven’t been training for at least a couple years.

85

[quote]toddthebod wrote:
You gained 26kg in your first year of lifting and you think you are a hardgainer?![/quote]

Haha, no, not anymore. Now I just think of myself as “a guy who has to eat a lot”. But in the beginning I thought that I have to work harder than others for gains, and I think that really helped.

86

[quote]toddthebod wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
toddthebod wrote:
Here’s what Poliquin has to say on the topic:

“[B]y calling yourself a hard gainer you’re creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe you’re a hard gainer, you are a hard gainer; in contrast, if you believe you’re an easy gainer, you’re an easy gainer.”

Poliquin’s full of shit. Some people do have an easier time gaining weight, and building muscle, than others. To say it’s purely mental is fucking retarded. Think for yourself, home boy.

Edit: I’m not saying calling yourself a hardgainer isn’t a rationalization, it is. But it’s a FACT that some people do have a harder time.

Here’s a question, then: What benefit does one get out of labeling themselves a hardgainer?[/quote]

None, really. Except to convey your body type when asking for advice.

87

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Someone who doesn’t really believe they will make gains worthy of their work will never perform work worthy of gains.

That’s not the same as saying it’s purely mental. However, saying that some people gain muscle, gain strength, lose fat, gain fat, run fast are more intelligent etc. is just another way of saying were all genetically unique which is undeniable.

Hardgainer has come to be defined as poor lowly victims of biology who no matter what they do are inextricably capped at some minuscule level of potential. That attitude is the death knell for any training they do and is based on the faulty belief that most people without pro potential are like them. Hardgainers. The term is useless anymore.[/quote]

I agree with this. All I’m saying is that I believe as much as there are genetic freaks out there, there are people on the opposite end of the spectrum. They are hardgainers. Whatever level of success they can acheive, they are hardgainers. Whether that be no success, barely any, or maybe they’ll become normal looking as opposed to looking ethiopian. The fact that the term hardgainer has come to mean that someone cannot make any progress is pretty ridiculous.

Edit: Come to think of it, I’ve been interchanging hardgainer and ecto. I guess since everyone here is in agreement that hardgainer means no progress, than I’d agree that hardgainers don’t exist. Ectos on the other hand… well, nevermind, that’s another thread!

88

[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
Haven’t seen this point brought up yet…

Seems to me most ‘hardgainers’ are pretty young. If you are into a high school sport, you’ll probably start lifting at around 14-15, most likely way before your endocrine system is operating at full bore.

I fully believe that truly learning how to lift with intensity takes time and is very important for gains, but that learning also either coincides with or is a result of max testosterone production. Either way, the ‘hardgainer’ status usually gets fixed somewhere around age 18-25.

Was it learning how to eat and lift properly, or a normal variation on the onset of puberty (and not a disease state per se)? Probably both.

On a side note, anyone know how the onset of male puberty is trending? I know female onset is trending younger. I also am aware of the whole ‘failure to launch’ thing - it’s pretty hard to man up at an early age with the amount/price of schooling required to get a career going nowadays. And forget about buying a reasonably priced home… And who know what BC hormones are in our drinking water…

Anyway, some food for thought.[/quote]

I think the best time to be lifting is the 14 and on range. Your natural hormones (test, GH etc) are as anabolic as they will ever be, shit i used to gain 10-20 lbs a year from doing 4 months of football practice and masturbating the rest of the year. The problem with the 15 year old “hardgainer” is that he is spending too much time getting drunk, eating like a pussy, and doing a 5 day a week bench/curl in the squatrack program that takes 2 hours a day to do.

My highschool football coach told me to “eat like a horse” to gain weight, so I took that as license to double up on ice-cream and bagel dogs, and that probably wasnt the best thing to tell me but I am no worse for wear. Point is, a little guidance from the coach, both in the kitchen and weightroom, would go a long way to being a big strong SOB when your still in highschool. He at least had us doing squats and powercleans in there.

89

[quote]viking666 wrote:
I agree with Megatron.Obviously bodytypes and metabolisms are different.You cant come down on everyone who has a hard time gaining.But on the other hand the main problem is that people may train hard,but not eat hard.Eating for size is a commitment in itself.Forcing food down is an art form.If you throw up in your mouth,swallow it back down…

Ive always had a huge appetite and gained weight easily.But Ive also been very direct about consuming calories.When I would put clients on a bulk cycle,they would tell me about eating tuna,egg whites,rice,etc.I would tell them to head to the golden arches and eat for real…lol [/quote]

LOL, i fucking hate McDonalds, the one we have tastes like shit. Jack in the Box is the real deal, get a Double Ultimate bacon cheeseburger and a milkshake with oreos mixed in. That’ll put the bulk on, 30 lbs in a month man. Anyways I think people often confuse training longer with training harder.

90

Now i have more consecutive posts than lankymofo or the todd.

91

[quote]Mike84 wrote:
And not be afraid of making mistakes… A dirty bulk hasn’t killed anyone as far as I know, but it has made a lot of people smarter for the next one.[/quote]

Exxxxxaaaaactly,

The last year I put on 30 pounds in a dirty bulk. As my screenname indicates I’m pretty new to this so it was a learning process. I’ve cut back down now. Lost some muscle and fat but I’m ahead of where I was before I started. Most importantly I learned a lot and next time I’ll bulk a little cleaner. That suits me fine.

Then again, I’m 33, married and not really worried about staying hollywood thin year round. In fact DW now complains I’m too thin at 200 lbs.

92

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:

In fact, if you have only been training for two years or less, labeling yourself much of anything makes no sense at all.

I disagree with that. If you obviously gain weight more easily than otheres, that should be pretty apparent.

If you “gain weight more easily than others”, you have more drive than others. You are more determined than others. You are more motivated than others.

Diet and training isn’t the end all.[/quote]

Its important what exactly you’re gaining.
In most cases, people who are gaining ‘easy’ are gaining too much fat.

With 6 pack and skiny or with fat belly and big?
Almost everyone wants to be big with 6 pack. :slight_smile:

Hardgainers = overused word for me.

93

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
<<< All I’m saying is that I believe as much as there are genetic freaks out there, there are people on the opposite end of the spectrum. They are hardgainers. >>>[/quote]

Ok, fair enough on these people existing. I was going to say can we call them something else, but whatever term comes to mean “I’m genetically cursed” will likely be seized upon to explain why people are not making progress and don’t wanna be huge.

94

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
<<< All I’m saying is that I believe as much as there are genetic freaks out there, there are people on the opposite end of the spectrum. They are hardgainers. >>>

Ok, fair enough on these people existing. I was going to say can we call them something else, but whatever term comes to mean “I’m genetically cursed” will likely be seized upon to explain why people are not making progress and don’t wanna be huge.[/quote]

The “genetic freaks” probably make up much less than .5% of the population. It is funny how few of those we get on this site but how every single person who can’t gain muscle finds their way here in massive numbers.

95

[quote]DSmolken wrote:
A few words in defense of labels.

Thinking of myself as a hardgainer helped me. It wouldn’t have been convincing to try to think of myself as “normal” or “like everyone else”. My weight never even hit 63 kilos before I started training at age 31 and I stand 178 cm. That kind of physique might have been “normal” at Auschwitz.

I didn’t use the label as an excuse for crappy results but as a constant reminder that I don’t have much room for excuses and need to work a lot harder than most people in the kitchen. I went from 62,5 to 88,5 kilos in my first year of lifting, so it seems to be working OK.[/quote]

Who wants anyone to think of themselves as “normal”? In fact, why is anyone who wants to even be “normal” on this website?

I am not saying you hold that position personally, but it should have been clear from the start that this site is not for people who desire to be “normal” or who think of themselves as “normal”.

We want that label done away with because it attracts “normal people” like cookies attract fat kids. They all see themselves as coming up short. As a result, those types don’t ever truly try hard. They already have an excuse to avoid it.

96

Hardgainers exist because supplement companies do.

Simple shit.

97

[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< As a result, those types don’t ever truly try hard. They already have an excuse to avoid it.
[/quote]

This is the most frustrating part.

98

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Hardgainers exist because supplement companies do.

Simple shit.[/quote]

Perfectly stated, IMO. Kinda what I was trying to say in my last post.

99

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Hardgainers exist because supplement companies do. [/quote]

Quote of the day.

100

[quote]toddthebod wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
toddthebod wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i think the term slow-gainer and hard-gainer are interchangable. at least i can accept that without drugs the most mass i can put on in a month is a pound or two. i still go to the gym 4 times a week and bust my ass though because i know that even though 2 pounds at max is insignificant its the only way i can put on anything at all. so if i gain 12-24 lbs a year thats still 12-24 lbs a year. i gained 24 lbs from the last time i went to the doctor (went today so thats how i know) and i look dramatically different compared to then.

I’m sorry. I’m going to have to call you out on this one. Do you only weigh yourself once a year? As Berardi says, “If you aren’t assessing, you’re guessing.” Buy a scale, for crying out loud.

i weigh myself weekly. at the gym where they have a tiptronic scale (thats off) and at my work where theres a very accurate digital scale.

Thank goodness. I guess I don’t understand your use of visits to the doctor as reference points for how much you gained. I mean, you could have just said, “I gained 24 lbs in the last year”; nobody is going to doubt that you know how to use a scale to weigh yourself.

And we don’t know how often you go to the doctor, so that’s not a terribly useful measure. I’m glad to hear you don’t wait for doctor’s visits to find out how much you way. That would be tragic.[/quote]

i wrote that whole thing terribly, most of it didnt flow together at all lol. i think i was trying to express my frustration at the doubt of hardgainers and things got messed up.

to answer what someone said earlier about gaining 2 pounds a month and it eventually equalling 400-something pounds. thats pretty rediculous to say. for one, youd have to be eating like 20,000 calories a day as an ectomorph to maintain that type of bodymass. eating that much food would not only take all your time but all your money as well, its just not possible.

i dont know much about this stuff either because im not a doctor but i dont even know if your body would allow you to put on 400lbs of straight muscle even if you could afford the 20,000 calorie diet and actually spent every hour of the day you arent at the gym to be eating.

the reason i say that Ectos are hardgainers is because if you took an ecto and someone of any other body type kept them on the same diet and same routine the other person would gain significantly more than the ecto. even if you took an endomorph, put them on a lower caloric intake as to avoid putting on too much fat, and gave the ecto a huge caloric surplus, the endo would gain more.

with this logic i dont see how you couldnt agree that its hard for ectos to gain mass, because thats exactly what the term means. if everyone knows an ecto has to work HARDER than anyone else at the gym then how the fuck can you argue the term??